We Catholics Are Dead Sure The Church Is The One Church Of Christ And That All Others Are Mistaken

[Hisalone]

Yes, but did you ever read the scripture where in Jesus talked to the brothers who were concerned about which one of them would sit at his right hand in heaven? I think Jesus made it quite clear that those who puff themselves up with importance and demand special attention for their being “first” would find themselves alas not where they expected.

I am always happy to see that the RCC doesn’t spend much time telling us Non RC’s that we are less than they are. I seriously question whether your braggadocia is appreciated by the RCC. All you claim depends on an interepretation of scripture that serves your interests in claiming primacy in Christendom. I have no idea why that is needed by a few RCC to feel good about their faith, but it is most apparent that it is. Blessings.

Isnt it Jesus who said that God could change the stones to sons of Abraham because the Jews thought they were something because they were sons of Abraham.

 

[motstraumen]

motstraumen, if you truly believe this, then why aren’t you Catholic? For the first 1500 years of Christianity, the people were Catholic. If this was so, then Christ must of established the Catholic church. The Catholic church is called “Universal” for all the people to belong to it. Why don’t you?

Thank you, for you post. Lutherans would say we never left the Catholic church, but the Roman Church left us over a diispute that could have easily been remedied with pure pastoral concern from the church hierarchy. Christ indeed founded the Catholic Church and with great joy we celebrate its birthday this coming Sunday on Pentecost. Many of us long for reunion also today with the Roman Church, and the Orthodox Church as well, and it has been wonderful to see the progress our churches have made in the last fifty years. I truly believe God is at work through the dialogue process as we continue to learn again each other’s language. Isn’t it amazing that on the first Pentecost all those disparate people from Rome in the West to Arabia in the east heard the Good news in their own language. God is truly good and continues to astonish us as his will breaks out of the bonds we all too often set upon him and says to the world, “I love you, you are mine, you are mine so much I give my all, my very Son!” Happy Pentecost

 

[totallylost]

Thank you, for you post. Lutherans would say we never left the Catholic church, but the Roman Church left us over a diispute that could have easily been remedied with pure pastoral concern from the church hierarchy. Christ indeed founded the Catholic Church and with great joy we celebrate its birthday this coming Sunday on Pentecost. Many of us long for reunion also today with the Roman Church, and the Orthodox Church as well, and it has been wonderful to see the progress our churches have made in the last fifty years. I truly believe God is at work through the dialogue process as we continue to learn again each other’s language. Isn’t it amazing that on the first Pentecost all those disparate people from Rome in the West to Arabia in the east heard the Good news in their own language. God is truly good and continues to astonish us as his will breaks out of the bonds we all too often set upon him and says to the world, “I love you, you are mine, you are mine so much I give my all, my very Son!” Happy Pentecost

The Roman Catholic Church is officially known as Catholic Church. The name “Roman” is given because during ancient time, the Church is based in Rome. There’s also Eastern Catholic Church, Japanese Catholic Church, but ALL share the same doctrine and believe and same authority. The only differences is the Rite.

How would Catholic Church left Lutheran Church when the Lutheran Church is only found by Martin Luther 500 years ago? How is that logic? Isn’t Martin Luther was taught as a Catholic, and he disagreed with the Catholic doctrines when he is able to read the Bible, interpret it as his own, and started his own Church?

 

[Hesychios]

The Roman Catholic Church is officially known as Catholic Church. The name “Roman” is given because during ancient time, the Church is based in Rome. There’s also Eastern Catholic Church, Japanese Catholic Church, but ALL share the same doctrine and believe and same authority. The only differences is the Rite.

How would Catholic Church left Lutheran Church when the Lutheran Church is only found by Martin Luther 500 years ago? How is that logic? Isn’t Martin Luther was taught as a Catholic, and he disagreed with the Catholic doctrines when he is able to read the Bible, interpret it as his own, and started his own Church?

Sometimes, an individual can make the most positive and encouraging post, and another will take a big stick and whack them with it.

 

[totallylost]

Sometimes, an individual can make the most positive and encouraging post, and another will take a big stick and whack them with it.

But just wanted to point out, there’s no “Roman Church”. Roman Catholic Church IS the Catholic Church, and the name Roman is given because it was in Roman. Peter fled to Roman. The Church was already in Roman before Roman Caesar declared it official religion.

Was Martin Lurther ever ordained as a priest/bishop by Catholic Church? Did Martin Luther agreed on ALL Catholic doctines? If no, how can we say that he followed Catholic Church?

 

[motstraumen]

But just wanted to point out, there’s no “Roman Church”. Roman Catholic Church IS the Catholic Church, and the name Roman is given because it was in Roman. Peter fled to Roman. The Church was already in Roman before Roman Caesar declared it official religion.

Was Martin Lurther ever ordained as a priest/bishop by Catholic Church? Did Martin Luther agreed on ALL Catholic doctines? If no, how can we say that he followed Catholic Church?

Thank you for your posts totallylost. Luther did not found anything. The name he would have called the group that followed his teaching, based on scripture and the ancient apostolic tradition, was Evangelical Catholic. He didn’t seek out nor did he leave the Roman Catholic Church, he was excommunicated because he questioned some practices of the church at that time, especially the selling of indulgences that were being used to pay off debts to buy bishoprics (Simony) and to fund grand building schemes that were taking place in Rome, when he saw the peasants struggling even to feed themselves. Martin Luther was an Augustinian Monk, then ordained priest, and sent to be Professor of Bible, he was a doctor of the church, and served in Wittenburg, Germany. I suggest perhaps you read the Augsburg Confession that the Evangelicals (Lutherans was the name given to them by their opponents, and it stuck just like the word “Christian”, as opposed to “The Way”.) wrote and presented to the emperor that goes into detail as to how the followers of the Reformer were and still are Catholic, part of the universal church. Luther sought to reform the church, not leave it. Did he agree with all the doctrine? No. He felt that in many instances the church of his day had left the Catholic faith. The Lutheran Church is/was very thankful for the tenure of Pope John XXIII who brought a healthy dialogue back to your church, as well as opening up dialogue with our Evangelical (Lutheran) Catholic Church. God Bless.

 

[motstraumen]

The Roman Catholic Church is officially known as Catholic Church. The name “Roman” is given because during ancient time, the Church is based in Rome. There’s also Eastern Catholic Church, Japanese Catholic Church, but ALL share the same doctrine and believe and same authority. The only differences is the Rite.

How would Catholic Church left Lutheran Church when the Lutheran Church is only found by Martin Luther 500 years ago? How is that logic? Isn’t Martin Luther was taught as a Catholic, and he disagreed with the Catholic doctrines when he is able to read the Bible, interpret it as his own, and started his own Church?

I didn’t mean to imply that the Roman Church was ever part of the Lutheran movement. Luther and his followers were trying to correct what they saw as error that had crept into the Roman Catholic Church. When they questioned some abuses, they were excommunicated. Thus they felt that the Roman Church had left them, like you would a kitten out in the middle of no where, abandoned in other words. Does this help? And again Martin Luther did not found anything, we beleive he continued in the apostolic tradition.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I didn’t mean to imply that the Roman Church was ever part of the Lutheran movement. Luther and his followers were trying to correct what they saw as error that had crept into the Roman Catholic Church. When they questioned some abuses, they were excommunicated. Thus they felt that the Roman Church had left them, like you would a kitten out in the middle of no where, abandoned in other words. Does this help? And again Martin Luther did not found anything, we beleive he continued in the apostolic tradition.

Sure, you can sugar coat it any way you’d like. Fact is that Luther was a heretic and took it UPON HIMSELF to TRY and change what Christ gave us in the first place. Good thing he never succeeded but failed. That’s because if he was doing God’s work, he wouldn’t of failed because God doesn’t fail. He came in, divided the church Jesus established, resulting in 30,000 denominations, all confused, chaotic and in deep need of Spiritual guidance. And all with contradictory beliefs.

 

[motstraumen]

Sure, you can sugar coat it any way you’d like. Fact is that Luther was a heretic and took it UPON HIMSELF to TRY and change what Christ gave us in the first place. Good thing he never succeeded but failed. That’s because if he was doing God’s work, he wouldn’t of failed because God doesn’t fail. He came in, divided the church Jesus established, resulting in 30,000 denominations, all confused, chaotic and in deep need of Spiritual guidance. And all with contradictory beliefs.

My goodness He did not take it upon himself, he asked questions. Are you allowed to do that? If you belong to a “church” that doesn’t allow that, then that is called a cult. He did not fail, because he was following the true teachings of Jesus Christ. The Word is alive and well in the Lutheran church. Any pastor worth their salt at that time looking out and seeing the abuses was bound by their vows to question. Fact. I think I will let it JonNC to respond cordially to you. Your type is not helpful. Read some history and get a clue. And DON"T SHOUT AT ME!

 

[reteeks21]

My goodness He did not take it upon himself, he asked questions. Are you allowed to do that? If you belong to a “church” that doesn’t allow that, then that is called a cult. He did not fail, because he was following the true teachings of Jesus Christ. The Word is alive and well in the Lutheran church. Any pastor worth their salt at that time looking out and seeing the abuses was bound by their vows to question. Fact. I think I will let it JonNC to respond cordially to you. Your type is not helpful. Read some history and get a clue. And DON"T SHOUT AT ME!

You are one of the many who have asked that she stop treating other people like that. It’s pretty sad, to be sure, that people of all stripes who claim to be apologists are the ones who tend the most antagonistic.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

My goodness He did not take it upon himself, he asked questions. Are you allowed to do that? If you belong to a “church” that doesn’t allow that, then that is called a cult. He did not fail, because he was following the true teachings of Jesus Christ. The Word is alive and well in the Lutheran church. Any pastor worth their salt at that time looking out and seeing the abuses was bound by their vows to question. Fact. I think I will let it JonNC to respond cordially to you. Your type is not helpful. Read some history and get a clue. And DON"T SHOUT AT ME!

Your remarks are very helpful to the discussion. Please pay no mind to the clanging gong. She mistreats most everyone here. Why the forum allows her to do this against their best interests is beyond me. But we welcome your comments. Many of us are here to have serious and pleasant conversation.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

My goodness He did not take it upon himself, he asked questions. Are you allowed to do that? If you belong to a “church” that doesn’t allow that, then that is called a cult. He did not fail, because he was following the true teachings of Jesus Christ. The Word is alive and well in the Lutheran church. Any pastor worth their salt at that time looking out and seeing the abuses was bound by their vows to question. Fact. I think I will let it JonNC to respond cordially to yomy post the same way.u. Your type is not helpful. Read some history and get a clue. And DON"T SHOUT AT ME!

Where do you see shouting? Just like your church interpreted the Word of God the wrong way, you interpret my post the same way .
And he DID FAIL because the Catholic church STILL STANDS, being the largest leading religion in the world. Was then, is now.
There were no abuses within the Catholic church. Luther was a heretic. Wanted to be some kind of a hero. He caused such division and confusion. Oh glorious Reformer…not.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Your remarks are very helpful to the discussion. Please pay no mind to the clanging gong. She mistreats most everyone here. Why the forum allows her to do this against their best interests is beyond me. But we welcome your comments. Many of us are here to have serious and pleasant conversation.

Spiritmeadow, when one disagrees with you and any non-Catholics here, we are rude. You came here because you want to know about Catholicism obviously, but when one explains it, defensively, you can’t take it. It is what it is. I only tell the truth, show me where I have called names or anything else. I only speak the truth.
Your name calling here has been more than uncharitable above all. Show me the mistreatment I have called anyone except to tell the truth. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Spiritmeadow, when one disagrees with you and any non-Catholics here, we are rude. You came here because you want to know about Catholicism obviously, but when one explains it, defensively, you can’t take it. It is what it is. I only tell the truth, show me where I have called names or anything else. I only speak the truth.
Your name calling here has been more than uncharitable above all. Show me the mistreatment I have called anyone except to tell the truth. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

1. I am not here to learn about Catholicism. I was a Catholic for many years. If you read any of my posts you would know this.
2. You don’t explain anything. You cut and paste a bunch of rantings about Catholic first in each and every post.
3. You project your own namecalling onto others. It’s a psychological issue, projection. Look it up and you can understand your problem.
4. You can read almost any thread you have started and read where nearly everyone asks you to stop being abusive. You continuing using caps when others have told you again and again that it is rude and considered yelling on the internet. You have plagerized material and refused to either give it proper citation or admit it. You have been counseled by several Roman Catholics that your tone and behavior is turns the very people away that you wish to convert, yet you say that your “in your face” methods work and you have converted dozens.
5. Eventually CAF will realize that you are working against their interests and will ban you.

I am sorry you are suffering such anger and we all wish you well, but your abuse is in need of curbing. It does no good to tell you, but we all have had enough and speak out when we get our fill. Sooner or later people will start turning you in and that will be the end of your assault on everyone here.

 

[gcnuss]

And he [Luther] DID FAIL because the Catholic church STILL STANDS, being the largest leading religion in the world. Was then, is now.

Luther was not seeking to destroy the Catholic Church. The fact that it still stands is evidence not that Luther failed but that the Church, responding to some of the issues Luther and other reformers raised, did some reforming of itself.

There were no abuses within the Catholic church.

No serious Catholic theologian or apologist can or would deny that all was not right in the Catholic Church at the time of the Reformation. Reformation (if not The Reformation) was most certainly needed.

Luther was a heretic. Wanted to be some kind of a hero. He caused such division and confusion. Oh glorious Reformer…not.

Ad hominem attacks on a man who has been dead for 460+ years are not the way to convince anyone of anything.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

1. I am not here to learn about Catholicism. I was a Catholic for many years. If you read any of my posts you would know this.
2. You don’t explain anything. You cut and paste a bunch of rantings about Catholic first in each and every post.
3. You project your own namecalling onto others. It’s a psychological issue, projection. Look it up and you can understand your problem.
4. You can read almost any thread you have started and read where nearly everyone asks you to stop being abusive. You continuing using caps when others have told you again and again that it is rude and considered yelling on the internet. You have plagerized material and refused to either give it proper citation or admit it. You have been counseled by several Roman Catholics that your tone and behavior is turns the very people away that you wish to convert, yet you say that your “in your face” methods work and you have converted dozens.
5. Eventually CAF will realize that you are working against their interests and will ban you.

I am sorry you are suffering such anger and we all wish you well, but your abuse is in need of curbing. It does no good to tell you, but we all have had enough and speak out when we get our fill. Sooner or later people will start turning you in and that will be the end of your assault on everyone here.

I asked you to show me where there is any “abuse” towards anyone here, yet you fail to answer me or to show me where there is such any abuse. You have a terrible persecution complex and I feel pity for you for not being in the church Christ founded. What is worse than that? You can see here that you’d like me to be banned, then there would be less Catholics here to speak of the truth.
To know you were Catholic and to turn away from the true faith must be utterly hurtful. I will pray for you.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Luther was not seeking to destroy the Catholic Church. The fact that it still stands is evidence not that Luther failed but that the Church, responding to some of the issues Luther and other reformers raised, did some reforming of itself.

No serious Catholic theologian or apologist can or would deny that all was not right in the Catholic Church at the time of the Reformation. Reformation (if not The Reformation) was most certainly needed.

Ad hominem attacks on a man who has been dead for 460+ years are not the way to convince anyone of anything.

To say Luther was a heretic who caused confusion and chaos is to you an attack? Go figure…there was nothing wrong with the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation, except people like Luther who imagined it.

 

[distracted]

What you are saying just doesn’t match reality. You and those who believe in it can only be acting out of pure wish fulfillment, because there is nothing about the universe that might lead you to this sort of conclusion.

Edwin

wish fulfillment… ? Well, i agree with OP… and i can tell you that as a Catholic, my faith is FAR from wish fulfillment…

I nver had a firm grasp on truth until i got deep into Catholicism… studying it, but mostly DOING it…

what religion are you?

I wouldn’t mind knowing more of your background because, well, it would help to understand where you are coming from…

but one thing jumps out at me from your post: you don’t understand some things… about Catholicism…

just looked… you are Episcopalian…

dont feel bad…

most Protestants do not undersand Catholicism…

Catholics are an entirely different “species”…

you have to BE Catholic to understand being Catholic…

 

[Harpazo]

wish fulfillment… ? Well, i agree with OP… and i can tell you that as a Catholic, my faith is FAR from wish fulfillment…

I nver had a firm grasp on truth until i got deep into Catholicism… studying it, but mostly DOING it…

what religion are you?

I wouldn’t mind knowing more of your background because, well, it would help to understand where you are coming from…

but one thing jumps out at me from your post: you don’t understand some things… about Catholicism…

just looked… you are Episcopalian…

dont feel bad…

most Protestants do not undersand Catholicism…

Catholics are an entirely different “species”…

you have to BE Catholic to understand being Catholic…

Oy, you and OTCA are quite a tag team. You’re certainly going to win converts.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Oy, you and OTCA are quite a tag team. You’re certainly going to win converts.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thank you. We tell the truth and sometimes the truth is hard to take.