Went undercover to a Baptist church today

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The current Ordo Missae, properly celebrated, can be very beautiful. Heck, my parish does the current Ordo in Latin with chant every Sunday at 9:00AM. However, let us not forget that a valid Mass, no matter how “ugly”, brings to us the Lord who is infinitely beautiful. Reverence is important. External trappings can elevate the soul. In the end, though, it is Christ who matters most.
 
Latin was used because it is a universal language. It was used in medicine, law, and science, not only in the Catholic Church liturgy. Educated people everywhere for the past 2000+ years have studied Latin and Greek language and culture. It was only since 1960 that we have forgotten Latin, due to the deconstruction of our culture that is steadily progressing.

You could follow along in a Missal and see the Latin on the left page, with a very good unchanging English translation on the right hand page. The illustrations were accurately keyed to whatever was going on at the altar. The main readings of Epistle and Gospel were read in English, facing the people. The sermon was in English. It was not as “incomprehensible” as they said it was. And it was not rocket science to catch on to what was going on.

If you studied Latin, you later had the key to four or five or more modern languages. You generally studied it in high school, although you learned some phrases in grammar school. Public schools as well as Catholic schools taught Latin.

Vatican II documents say that “Latin has pride of place” at Mass. So why haven’t I heard one word of Latin in 25 or 30 YEARS at neighborhood parishes??? I have to tune in to EWTN to heard the Creed or the Our Father chanted correctly (and beautifully). —OLYMPIA
 
<<<In the end, though, it is Christ who matters most>>>

I wish more people would remember this. Thanks for the reminder..
 
Little Mary:
…I like to use this little analogy when comparing protestant services to that of the one true church: Picture a little two/three year old girl playing at her Playschool toy kitchen and talking on toy telephone at the same time - just like she has seen her mother do so many times! Now, picture her parents watching her with smiles on their faces, thinking, how cute is that, she’s playing house.

I think that’s what God does when he looks down on a protestant service - He smiles because He knows they love Him, but He doesn’t take it too seriously because it’s not complete - there is so much they’ve yet to understand, just like the little girl. After their service, I picture God saying “That was great boys and girls, but now it’s time for Mass”!!
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Little Mary,

You just made my day!👋

Thank you,

Malachi4U
 
As sort of an act of fellowship and Christian work, I took a blind man to a Wednesday night type of meeting at the Peru (IL) Baptist Church. This was his church, and we went there to kill some time, I suppose you’d say.

The minister is a strong follower of Bob Jones, and makes regular visits to Bob Jones Univ.

I was there just after Geo. W. Bush the candidate visited Bob Jones U. and the press was making a flap over the U’s policy of not allowing inter-racial dating. Jones II or III had subsequently cancelled the policy. The local minister was trying to explain those evolutions in policy.

The Baptist church school was filled and there was an application process to determine if a child could be admitted there. Apparently the school was locally famed for its strict policies.

The pastor gave me the “eye” when I was introduced as a Catholic.

The course of the meeting was strange. The minister is an employee, whereas the church members are considered to have a priestly charism. At the time of sharing, one member stood to give his witness, and he said that he was glad that the Bible had not been put together by any Pope or Council. I just didn’t bite on that one, but took it as an object lesson in what a diversity of opinion and “truth” there is out there.
 
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Malachi4U:
Little Mary,

You just made my day!👋

Thank you,

Malachi4U
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Anytime!!:tiphat:
 
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<<<Go to a protestant service and enjoy it, help them to understand what the Catholic Church is and not what they believe it is. Know your Faith first so you come back home!😉 They are Christians too and do have some good services. Just do not go to their service in lieu of Mass! Go to both! And do not go to belittle or insult them, this is not what Jesus did nor what we should do either. Go in ‘love’ as Scripture commands.>>>

Very good advice! I often attend services with my husband, adn do enjoy it. The music and preaching are great, and the fellowship is outstanding. They do have weekly communion, and are very reverent about it…But, of course, it is not the same…No matter how much I enjoy the service, I am always aware that there is something missing…It is, of course, the Eucharist.
**And…as I have mentioned before, there is always chsnce to witness to others about the Cathoilic faith…I look for every chance to clear up any misunderstandings, and am always thrilleld when I am asked questions. **
 
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1962Missal:
Similar experience. I wanted to fit in so I brought my Bible to Sunday worship with me to a Southern Baptist church…my NAB with “The Catholic Bible” in great big letters on the front. I really wasn’t thinking that morning.

Justin
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You use NAB!!! HERETICS!!!
 
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beng:
You use NAB!!! HERETICS!!!
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Choosing other version over NAB is false dichotomy. 😛

Justin

P.S. Only G. Domesticus rejects NAB. :rotfl:

P.P.S for those not in the know, beng means well. 👍
 
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beng:
You use NAB!!! HERETICS!!!
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I use the NAB and if I ever see beng coming towards me with fire, I’m running away.

On topic, I was a Baptist 38 years (twice on Sunday, once on Wednesday). When I run into old friends, then inevitable question is,“Where are you going to church?” I love to see the response when I give with my parish name.
 
<<>>

I get the same response when people at my husband’s church realize that I’m still Catholic. It’s fun to see the look on their faces…I love it.
 
Went to a Church of the Brethren (off brand Quaker is my understanding) couple months ago. I went with some cousins who obviously know I’m Catholic. Since I was raised Protestant (Indep. Bapt) I was fairly comfortable with the whole thing and blended right in. Throughout the sermon I got the distinct feeling there was an anti-Catholic undercurrent. Pastor made comments about Purgatory, Intercession and Sola Scriptura. I caught on and my cousins caught on because we’ve discussed all this before. I don’t think most parishioners could even distinguish which statements were anti-Catholic and which were not. Well, we finished up and were standing outside when I got the “welcome, it’s nice to see you…who are you and have you been saved” treatment from the pastor. Told him I was just visiting with my cousins and I was Catholic. Should have seen the look of disappointment. It was everything just short of an “I’m so sorry”. Amazing. He asked my cousins later if I was coming back and they told him they didn’t think so.
 
CD4 said:
I often do the same thing…I take my big blue Catholic Study Bible, or another obviously Catholic Bible with me to my husband’s Church of Christ…As I have said before, they all know me, and know that I am very much a Catholic…Taking a Catholic Bible can open doors…
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What is the exact name of that Bible? Is it simply called Catholic Study Bible?

I’d like to get one!

THX
 
Some in this thread made reference to the fact that they were too young to have experienced a “Pre-Vatican II” Mass. They feel like they missed something.

As a young girl, I remember having such a sense of awe and wonder when I enterd the cathedral in my home town. It’s massive, with all the vaulting, gold trim, huge columns - and the huge stained glass windows are magnificent! It seemed as though it took ten minutes to walk all the way down the aisle!

The one thing I do miss (sometimes) is receiving the Holy Eucharist at the communion rail (that rail still stands to this day). Holy Communion was given out by the priest and only the priest. You really could not mistake the holiness attached to receiving the Eucharist! :bowdown2:
It’s amazing to me now that I remember being able to recite and understand the Mass in Latin! I was so young!

Mango, you asked about what had changed after Vatican II with the Mass. Well, alot! I’ll try to state some of the changes for you.
The Eucharist is given out by the preists and extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist (laity) now and the altar rails were removed (if possible) so as to remove any “barriers” between the altar and the people and to encourage the people to participate in the Mass now.
The priest now faces the congregation now in attempt to include the congregation in the sacrifice of the Mass.
Women no longer had to cover their heads.
The Mass is now said in the vernacular instead of Latin.
Altar servers no longer had to be just boys, the girls could now participate (I think this happened as a result of VII, not sure).
No one but the priest was allowed in the sacristy (where the altar/tabernacle is) except those serving or reading. Sort of reminiscent of the holy of holies - old Jewish roots.
The tabernacle used to be placed in the center of the sacristy behind the altar. Now it’s just in a prominent place in the sacristy or very close to it.
The whole “feeling” of Mass changed from being exclusive of the people to now being wholly inclusive of the people. I think people felt before VII that they were there to “watch”. Now, the congregation feels more a part of the Mass. I think we have a better understanding of what is taking place. It’s a more personal thing now.
There were lots of changes (I think ultimately for the better) and I know I did not list them all, but you get the idea.

Jump on in, the water’s great! :bounce:

DianJo
 
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BayCityRickL:
The pastor gave me the “eye” when I was introduced as a Catholic.

The course of the meeting was strange. The minister is an employee, whereas the church members are considered to have a priestly charism. At the time of sharing, one member stood to give his witness, and he said that he was glad that the Bible had not been put together by any Pope or Council. I just didn’t bite on that one, but took it as an object lesson in what a diversity of opinion and “truth” there is out there.
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He drew a circle that shut me out
heretic, rebel, a thing to flout
but love and I had the wit to win
we drew a circle that took him in
(author by Edward Markam)
 
LaSalle wrote"They have a Praise and Worship session at the start of the 2 hour long service, that was essentially singing hymns, interspersed with some eyes-closed-hand-waving sort of action.
I gotta tell you, as a Catholic … it got a bit much. Weren’t hymns just gap fillers?
We sing hymns as the Priests come in, we sing in thanksgiving, we sing while the wardens come around for the weekly collection, there is always a reason to sing hymns … and when have we actually sung ALL 4 or 5 stanzas?? … they not only sang all 4 or 5 stanzas, they sang the entire hymn at least 2 or 3 times"
Yep, I know for a fact that many Fundamentalists believe that it IS God’s Comman that we sing! They get all worked up about it. I told him that I don’t like even the few songs we, Catholics, sing and he all but told me I was blaspheming God! They don’t have the Eucharist, they don’t have Apostolic succession, they don’t have the Authority of the Magestirium - so they make up for their empty theology with Songs. I was forced to go to a Methodist Church as a boy, I hated the songs then too. I became Catholic at age 23-4? But LaSalle is right , they think their singing is more Holy than our Pope. The bad part is - …they believe it.:nope:
 
I’m a member of a predominantly Black Baptist Church.
And signed up for RCIA.

Funny about you crossing yourself. Probably nobody noticed.

At first, it was just as funny me trying to bless myself with Holy Water at the spigot where you fill your bottle from home. Instead of using the handy little dishes mounted to the wall near the doors. Before I got the hang of it, I sometimes looked like I had just gone swimming.

You are so right. The Holy Eucharist. The tabernacle. Y’all are basically just really good Baptists with so much more. Instead of our empty symbolism, you have the Presence of the Lord.

At my Baptist Church, I am beginning to think that we do have the Presence of the Lord. We have his Presence in our beautiful singing. And we have his Presence when the Holy Scriptures are correctly read. And similarly, in the Catholic Church you also have the same blessed Presence the same way. But with Holy Communion, the Presence is so much more that perhaps you fail to realize the other ways God is also present.

Even though I cannot receive Communion at this time, I do feel so blessed to go to Mass. To go forward to get the priest’s blessing. To bless myself with Holy Water in a blessed place. And the music is so very good. I wish we sang more hymns at the daily mass.

Montanaman: I dare you to attend a predominantly Black Church some time. If there are any in Montana. My priest is from Montana. I suppose you probably won’t be “undercover” for even a second, but you will be very welcome. Just be prepared – some worship services at Black Churches can go on for awhile. So make sure you go to Mass Saturday night.
 
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montanaman:
I SO wanted to talk to someone about Marian intercession. lol.
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Ok. Why do you feel that you need Mary to be a mediator between you and God? Isn’t Jesus capable of performing perfectly his role as the the only mediator between God and men? Why did Jesus bother and came to earth and died to interced for us if Mary and the Saints can do the job of intercession for us? Do you feel that when you pray to Mary, Jesus will answer your prayers quickly or maybe he will give you more of his attention and time!?

I know that this is one of the hotest debate between Catholics and Protestants and after I have read all the explanations of Catholics about this subject I just cannot see myself praying to Mary and when sometimes I think about it and say to myself that maybe we indeed should pray to Mary or via Mary, I just go pray and ask Jesus for forgiveness telling him: Jesus, you came to earth and died to save us from our sins, you interceded for us. You Word tells me that you are the only mediator between God and me and I am so sorry because I tried to search for a path other than you.

Can you show me when and where did Jesus tell us to ask Mary to interced for us? Didn’t Jesus always tell us to come to him and ask him and pray to him? If it is so important to ask Mary to pray for us, wouldn’t Jesus have mentioned it? Think about it. Read the Bible and honestly can you tell me that the Catholic Mary is the Mary of the Bible?

Sometimes I feel like I should forget this subject because afterall we all pray to Jesus, but then I start reading the Bible and see how everything revolves around Jesus and how he is the only way and everything is done through and by him and I compare the Biblical Mary to the Catholic Mary and I notice that there is something wrong with the Catholic Mary!

I want every Catholic to think about this for a while: satan wants to take people including current believers away from Jesus. If Satan wants to own the soul of a good person, a true believer, than how do you think he will do it? Do you think that he will come and say I am satan and I want you to stop believing in Jesus and follow me. This will be a very dumb thing to do because the believer will probably reject him if he is truely founded on Jesus Christ. So I always think that satan has to use a smart plan to take the believers away from the center of our faith that is Jesus Christ. Not all ways lead to God, only Jesus is the way.

A final question to every Catholic: do you feel that if you pray through Mary and I prayed directly to Jesus, your prayer will be answered quicker, better… than mine? Do you honestly feel that you have and advantage over me because I simply went directly to Jesus?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)

Think about this verse.
 
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sparkle:
What is the exact name of that Bible? Is it simply called Catholic Study Bible?

I’d like to get one!

THX
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If I am not mistaken, that would be the NAB published by Oxford University Press

ISBN: 0-19–528389-9
 
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homer:
Ok. Why do you feel that you need Mary to be a mediator between you and God? Isn’t Jesus capable of performing perfectly his role as the the only mediator between God and men? Why did Jesus bother and came to earth and died to interced for us if Mary and the Saints can do the job of intercession for us? Do you feel that when you pray to Mary, Jesus will answer your prayers quickly or maybe he will give you more of his attention and time!?

I know that this is one of the hotest debate between Catholics and Protestants and after I have read all the explanations of Catholics about this subject I just cannot see myself praying to Mary and when sometimes I think about it and say to myself that maybe we indeed should pray to Mary or via Mary, I just go pray and ask Jesus for forgiveness telling him: Jesus, you came to earth and died to save us from our sins, you interceded for us. You Word tells me that you are the only mediator between God and me and I am so sorry because I tried to search for a path other than you.

Can you show me when and where did Jesus tell us to ask Mary to interced for us? Didn’t Jesus always tell us to come to him and ask him and pray to him? If it is so important to ask Mary to pray for us, wouldn’t Jesus have mentioned it? Think about it. Read the Bible and honestly can you tell me that the Catholic Mary is the Mary of the Bible?

Sometimes I feel like I should forget this subject because afterall we all pray to Jesus, but then I start reading the Bible and see how everything revolves around Jesus and how he is the only way and everything is done through and by him and I compare the Biblical Mary to the Catholic Mary and I notice that there is something wrong with the Catholic Mary!

I want every Catholic to think about this for a while: satan wants to take people including current believers away from Jesus. If Satan wants to own the soul of a good person, a true believer, than how do you think he will do it? Do you think that he will come and say I am satan and I want you to stop believing in Jesus and follow me. This will be a very dumb thing to do because the believer will probably reject him if he is truely founded on Jesus Christ. So I always think that satan has to use a smart plan to take the believers away from the center of our faith that is Jesus Christ. Not all ways lead to God, only Jesus is the way.

A final question to every Catholic: do you feel that if you pray through Mary and I prayed directly to Jesus, your prayer will be answered quicker, better… than mine? Do you honestly feel that you have and advantage over me because I simply went directly to Jesus?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)

Think about this verse.
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You’re a really bad reader. I bet you hated reading textbooks in school because you always skipped important details without knowing. If you read any of the replies that we put to your posts, you would have a very good understanding of Mary’s intercession being the EXACT SAME THING as your intercession for me, my intercession for you, etc. It’s not a very hard thing to see, that you take the word intercessor, which is what anyone can be, and is what God wants us to all be and make it into the word “mediator”, as if we believe that the saints in heaven mediate between man and God. We don’t, and if you ever looked at a scribble of church teaching, you would know that, but you continue to twist our words and beliefs into something that they aren’t. I really do hope, that ONE DAY, you get the R.E. Fluff 'n Stuff out of your head.
 
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