What Black Lives Matter Believe

[Salibi]

Honestly, threads like this make me lose my faith in Catholics.

The amount of people who, in the face of a man being murdered in broad daylight, chose to try to defame him, absolve the officer of his death, pretend everything is good and well with African American communities, blame an imaginary “left”, and all the other claptrap that I silently (mostly) observed on these forums these past couple weeks, is quite disturbing.

 

[Paddy1989]

 

[Paddy1989]

Honestly, threads like this make me lose my faith in Catholics.

The amount of people who, in the face of a man being murdered in broad daylight, chose to try to defame him, absolve the officer of his death, pretend everything is good and well with African American communities, blame an imaginary “left”, and all the other claptrap that I silently (mostly) observed on these forums these past couple weeks, is quite disturbing.

Noone has defended this crime which was an act of police brutality. We just don’t buy into the racist narrative. A narrative peddled for a few years now and certainly not a movement like BLM which is a Marxist group hostile to Catholicism (Christianity)

Tell me what makes this crime racist? Who assumed that? Given that police brutality happens right across the board

 

[Salibi]

narrative peddled for a few years now a

This is offensive. It is offensive to call it a “narrative”. It is offensive to pretend it doesn’t exist. Anti-black racism is clearer than day in America and if you can’t see that it’s because you chose to. Groups of people don’t suddenly decide to explode and riot. People suffer, and suffer, and suffer, until the fateful last straw, which in your country’s case was George Flyod’s murder.

like BLM which is a Marxist group hostile to Catholicism (Christianity)

You can support an ideal even if it’s supported by groups you don’t agree with. Do you think anti-racist ideals suddenly become wrong because someone you don’t agree with also supports them? That’s a really funny way to view the world, in my opinion.

Tell me what makes this crime racist?

I think you are missing the point. African Americans and their supporters aren’t demonstrating because of this crime alone. They are demonstrating because of centuries of racism and discrimination against the Black community. George Flyod’s murder was merely the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Given that police brutality happens right across the board

On a side tangent-police brutality happens “all across the board” and no one in America has thought to reform the police yet?

 

[Paddy1989]

like BLM which is a Marxist group hostile to Catholicism (Christianity)

You can support an ideal even if it’s supported by groups you don’t agree with. Do you think anti-racist ideals suddenly become wrong because someone you don’t agree with also supports them? That’s a really funny way to view the world, in my opinion.

Tell me what makes this crime racist?

I think you are missing the point. African Americans and their supporters aren’t demonstrating because of this crime alone. They are demonstrating because of centuries of racism and discrimination against the Black community. George Flyod’s murder was merely the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Given that police brutality happens right across the board

On a side tangent-police brutality happens “all across the board” and no one in America has thought to reform the police yet?
[/quote]

Offensive, i’d like to ask you, have you read the stats? Have you listened to the individuals who prove this narrative false with facts? Have a glance through here. Many of whom are ex civil rights veteran leaders exposing these groups for what they are? Tell me given the facts is it not more offensive to push a divisive agenda built on a lie? Do you not see how divisive identity politics makes us? The very people who claim to see racism, sexism and discrimination everywhere are the very people who look at the world though the prism of race, gender and sexual orientation while the rest of us are just trying to live in peace.

Now some say identity politics doesn’t exist, that it’s a conspiracy, that even perhaps there is no Marxist agenda however given that this movement itself lays out what it believes in trying to bring down the capitalist western imperialist patriarchal society i think their analysis in light of that is ridiculous, you would have to be intellectually blind to not see it at this point.

As for BLM and their supporters which by the way don’t even come close to the numbers of the civil rights movement. As far as i know they are protesting against what they believe to be institutional racism TODAY. Their claim is that George Floyd was a victim of a racist killing however what makes it racist? A white man killing a black? White people are statistically 2 times more likely to be killed by blacks in a homicide crime, does that make black people racist? Do you not see the lunacy of this? I give stats and the leaders putting forward all this information, if you don’t want to read in ANY of it and remain within your own bubble thats on you, please don’t get caught up in the hysteria that is causing more division than it’s healing.

**Also as for Police Brutality, as i said it happens across the board. Does it need to be addressed? Most definitely however i don’t think any nation is exempt from that but the idea that the US today is institutional racist today is a divisive lie Perpetuated by movements that despise western civilization and it’s values

 

[sealabeag]

My apologies, yes it was 2013! Not sure why I thought it was 2016. I was getting a bit flustered because my actual point was being sidetracked with irrelevant points. The year is unimportant but I was definitely wrong!

 

[Paddy1989]

 

[Welshrabbit]

Of course it does!

 

[TheLittleLady]

is actually a reference to Marx and the communal village which i highly recommend you read

My study of collectivism in college was pretty thorough, as well as my continued studies as an adult, thanks.

We are instructed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that the origin of homosexuality is unknown, that we are to treat those who are homosexual with dignity. The statement on BLM may use language that I’d not use, however, it is true that

the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

is problematic. I’d never presume to know another’s sexual self unless I’d been in a close friendship for a long time.

You may wish to read the book of Acts to learn about the earliest Christians who lived in community.

 

[Steeevyo]

ood people subscribe to the original principle of “Black Lives Matter” without belonging to any organization or the website “blacklivesmatter.com” which is not the sole spokesman for all who support the principle. This is a case of attacking a good principle because of some bad actors who wear that label.

Not true. BLM was always a leftist pressure group from the very start. Nobody in America disagrees with the lowercase notion that “black lives matter”. This makes the naming of this leftist pressure group so insidious. Please name a single conservative that supports the BLM organization or name a single conservative spokesperson of this group. There are none.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Any Black Lives Matter Catholics here?

ood people subscribe to the original principle of “Black Lives Matter” without belonging to any organization or the website “blacklivesmatter.com” which is not the sole spokesman for all who support the principle. This is a case of attacking a good principle because of some bad actors who wear that label.

Not true. BLM was always a leftist pressure group from the very start.

If you define “leftist” as opposing violence against blacks, then yes, it was “leftist”.

Nobody in America disagrees with the lowercase notion that “black lives matter”.

Quite obviously Derek Chauvin did not agree.

This makes the naming of this leftist pressure group so insidious. Please name a single conservative that supports the BLM organization…

Can’t do it because you will define “BLM organization” too narrowly so as to exclude the vast majority of people marching around the world under the banner of “Blank Lives Matter”, and you will define conservatives to narrowly so as to exclude people like George W. Bush, Mit Romney, etc.

 

[blackforest]

Please name a single conservative that supports the BLM organization or name a single conservative spokesperson of this group. There are none.

By “group,” are you referring to the movement or the organization?

There are facets of the BLM movement that conservatives can and do get behind. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/07/black-lives-matter-policies-conservatives-can-support/

But then . . . . Black American men shouldn’t be targeted for police violence 2.5-3 times more than the rest of us. Why does this statement of basic humanity have to be spun into something divisive and partisan?

 

[Paddy1989]

Steeevyo:

Please name a single conservative that supports the BLM organization or name a single conservative spokesperson of this group. There are none.

By “group,” are you referring to the movement or the organization?

There are facets of the BLM movement that conservatives can and do get behind. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/07/black-lives-matter-policies-conservatives-can-support/

But then . . . . Black American men shouldn’t be targeted for police violence 2.5-3 times more than the rest of us. Why does this statement of basic humanity have to be spun into something divisive and partisan?

What about unarmed white people who are targeted 2 times as likely as black or white people 2 times as likely to be killed in interracial homicide as black people? Tell me have you read any of the stats or are you going to remain in that shell and if so what do you gain from it especially when it leads to a more divisive society. Where does this tribalism get you? Your obviously not going to stop looking at the world though the prism of race, well ok then but be consistent? If stats show a disproportionate number that go against white people which i gave you then must also suspect racism, correct?

 

[blackforest]

What about

What about whataboutism? What about providing links/citations for your numbers, the same way I do when I post data? (Bonus points if you can avoid Breitbart, National Review, etc.)

what do you gain from it especially when it leads to a more divisive society. Where does this tribalism get you?

If you disagree with me, provide substantive arguments, not accusations of “divisiveness.” If you’re against divisiveness, don’t start angry threads about good-hearted people opposed to violence and racism. If you’re against divisiveness, march in solidarity with them. I can’t believe this issue is even controversial . . . or that you’re going out of your way to controvert it.

 

[Paddy1989]

Paddy1989:

What about

What about whataboutism? What about providing links/citations for your numbers, the same way I do when I post data? (Bonus points if you can avoid Breitbart, National Review, etc.)

what do you gain from it especially when it leads to a more divisive society. Where does this tribalism get you?

If you disagree with me, provide substantive arguments, not accusations of “divisiveness.” If you’re against divisiveness, don’t start angry threads about good-hearted people opposed to violence and racism. If you’re against divisiveness, march in solidarity with them. I can’t believe this issue is even controversial . . . or that you’re going out of your way to controvert it.

I did post links to those articles and there have been many more stats showing disproportionate numbers where someone like yourself who looks at this disproportion as obvious evidence of discrimination has refused to take on board because it shows a disproportion against whites. You apparently only care when its against blacks. When I get home ill repost those stats but I’m highly suspicious of your intentions when you purposely ignore them. Have a scroll through this thread. They are there. Your ignoring those stats, why?

Also as for BLM being good heartred, I don’t deny Marxist groups who want to change society by bringing down the western capitalist patriarchy are filled with good intentions though let’s not forget hell is full of people with good intentions

 

[Poet]

I’m stealing a response from @LeafByNiggle in another thread that should put this discussion to rest:

Any Black Lives Matter Catholics here?

Many good people subscribe to the original principle of “Black Lives Matter” without belonging to any organization or the website “blacklivesmatter.com” which is not the sole spokesman for all who support the principle. This is a case of attacking a good principle because of some bad actors who wear that label.

I love this. It SHOULD put the discussion to rest. Why? Because LeafByNiggle is the be all and end all of reason? Wiser than anyone here or anywhere?

It doesn’t put it to rest for at least two reasons:

1. NOBODY virtually nobody believes that black people’s lives DON’T matter. Nobody believes this.
2. If I have a website and organization called XYZ that is pushing for a number of very bad policies and I get a hundred million people out there chanting XYZ, XYZ, XYZ … whether they know it or not they ARE supporting and encouraging my policies because the more people chant XYZ is good! and the more others are afraid to say…but wait, XYZ is pushing some bad policies…the more chance my policies have of being enforced on people.

After all…anyone who opposes XYZ (the slogan) is bad and therefore XYZ (the policies and organization) can continue to do what they do. Nobody can criticize because the ‘words’ are the same. You’re bad if you criticize. So we get to move ahead with our (bad) policies.

People should NOT be shouting slogans if they are unaware of the POLICIES being promoted by the creators of that slogan.

 

[EssentialBeing]

This thread started as a voice to point out the EXTREME leftist views of BLM & associating a Marxist with this same view. Despite what many of us have been taught a Marxist is NOT a Leninist either, even though totalitarian nations have implemented the Marxist ideologies to their extremes.

A MARXIST is considered a socialist, which is left leaning, we don’t call socialist governments like France, Germany, Brazil etc. as MARXIST do we? We in all Westernized Democracies have been taught for almost a century, to shun & strongly oppose the Marxist view, because at its EXTREME it is very dangerous. And I agree

However when we turn to the rightist view & contemplate LIBERALISM & CAPITALISM at its extreme, it is also very dangerous

The point I am trying to make is that the father of the LEFT being Marx & Engels is no less dangerous than the father of the RIGHT being Locke & Smith. It is only at their extremes that they are both as repulsive as each other.

To be a moderate LEFTIST is not a MARXIST, they only moderately apply the view of Marxism, look at France Germany etc. As we do with the rightist view when applied moderately, it is not SMITHIST.

A better way to describe BLM at its loudest would be, Extreme Leftist or simply Fascist

 

[Freddy]

People should NOT be shouting slogans if they are unaware of the POLICIES being promoted by the creators of that slogan.

I didn’t know until these threads started that there was an organisation called BLM. And even now I do know it exists I am not interested in what policies it has to bring about a change in the current depressing situation. I really don’t. Because I, like probably 99% of the people who are protesting are using the slogan ‘Black Lives Matter’ as a rallying cry for everyone who has taken the time and made the effort to make their dissatisfaction with the status quo heard.

This is exactly like denigrating people who marched to have Mandela freed because there was an organisation called Free Nelson Mandela which had policies that appeared to support communism. It’s exactly like denigrating people who marched against the Vietnam war because an organisation called Stop The War appeared to be Marxist. It’s like denigrating the black rights movement because someone set up a web site called We Shall See The Promised Land which appeared to be racist.

This is a shameful thread.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If I have a website and organization called XYZ that is pushing for a number of very bad policies and I get a

There is where you went wrong. You got the sequence of events backwards. First came the movement BLM in 2013, and later on came the website and organization that you detest.

 

[blackforest]

I did post links to those articles

It’s just common courtesy to insert a link in, even if it’s more than one time. This is a thread of nearly 200 posts. Would you be willing to pay the courtesy of re-posting or directing me to the post number where you put in the links?

Because LeafByNiggle is the be all and end all of reason? Wiser than anyone here or anywhere?

No. S/he made a good point, and I chose to share it.

So we get to move ahead with our (bad) policies.

If you’d like a civil, educated discussion, even with disagreement, about how to reform the police, I’m all for it. The OP claimed a Marxist conspiracy due to a single organization that is not the mouthpiece for the entire movement. That’s another matter.

People should NOT be shouting slogans if they are unaware of the POLICIES being promoted by the creators of that slogan.

In other words, this creator: Meet the woman who coined #BlackLivesMatter

I think they’re aware of what they stand for.