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Servant19
Guest
A servant never demands from His Creator…I would humbly suggest that the reality just “IS”
Communion with our Lord through selflessly adhering to His Will…
What did Jesus bring to the world that was not already brought by Moses?
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Communion with our Lord through selflessly adhering to His Will…
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Servant19
Guest
I think there’s a BIG difference between hatred towards other human beings, which Phelps subscribes to, and some of the things you listed as being lies, namely:
-their prophets are manifestations of God, after He Who Could Not Be Contained came and died for their sins
-there is no such thing as Original Sin
-we should not worship on Sundays, but rather Saturday is the Lord’s Day
-there is no hell
…which are all theological concepts open to being tested through rational reasoning.
According to you…
“Hatred for others = anything that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach”
…maybe a reason to reflect for a while PR…
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eddie_too
Guest
it follows logically that when the bahai teach there is no such thing as original sin they are also teaching that men exist as God created them. that would be as sinners.
that contradicts the RCC doctrine that God can not do evil. creating a creature that is by its very nature a sinner is an evil act.
the RCC doctrine is that God created mankind without sin; and, sin is introduced in to the world by adam and eve.
adam and eve had a perfect relationship with God before they disobeyed His commandment.
after they disobeyed His commandment, that relationship was altered for the worse. it was no longer the perfect relationship that God had originally given them.
every human being is born in to a world where makind’s relationship with God has been damaged.
it would be a stark denial of reality to claim that human beings are NOT born in to a sinful world. the evidence surrounds us. born into a world that is subjected to sin. it is sin that separates a human being from God, nothing else.
so, you can dispute the RC doctrine of original sin to your heart’s content. but, your objections are meaningless until you provide a different doctrine that 1) acknowledges that a perfect God cannot do evil; 2) that human beings are created by that God; 3) that human beings do evil; and 4) that evil cannot be united with Perfect Good.
that contradicts the RCC doctrine that God can not do evil. creating a creature that is by its very nature a sinner is an evil act.
the RCC doctrine is that God created mankind without sin; and, sin is introduced in to the world by adam and eve.
adam and eve had a perfect relationship with God before they disobeyed His commandment.
after they disobeyed His commandment, that relationship was altered for the worse. it was no longer the perfect relationship that God had originally given them.
every human being is born in to a world where makind’s relationship with God has been damaged.
it would be a stark denial of reality to claim that human beings are NOT born in to a sinful world. the evidence surrounds us. born into a world that is subjected to sin. it is sin that separates a human being from God, nothing else.
so, you can dispute the RC doctrine of original sin to your heart’s content. but, your objections are meaningless until you provide a different doctrine that 1) acknowledges that a perfect God cannot do evil; 2) that human beings are created by that God; 3) that human beings do evil; and 4) that evil cannot be united with Perfect Good.
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eddie_too
Guest
daler,
i do not hate bahai or bahaullah. however, i do love the truth. when people obscure or distort the truth, i defend it.
it is true that i am a sinner. as a sinner, i cannot be united with Perfect Being because sin and Perfect Being are incompatible.
through Jesus’ life, death and resurrection, my sins are forgiven and i am freed from my sins. although i have been freed from my sins, i still suffer from the effects of sin. i am weak and will sin again. however, Jesus knew i was weak and would sin again and accordingly, He took care of that too. He created the sacrament of confession wherein i can again be freed of my sins. this holy sacrament allows my relationship with God to be renewed even though i have through my sinful acts damaged or even destroyed that relationship.
so, i return to this theme. Jesus gave to me the gift of eternal life. eternal life is being perfectly united to almighty God for all eternity. after having accepted this gift, what else do i need from any other man? what could another man add to what Jesus has already given me? why should i care what abstruse or faulty doctrines some other man might concoct? Jesus has saved me. He has given me the Way to eternal life. after being given eternal life, all else pales in significance. that all else that pales in significance includes bab, bahaullah and all that they did and taught.
it is incumbent upon the bahai to elucidate what bahaullah adds to Jesus’ gift of freedom from sin and eternal life.
you may call my demand for such an elucidation hateful. in reality, it is the simple application of reason to the words of others and an honest attempt to evaluate those words of others in light of what i already know.
so, knowing the RC doctrine about sin and salvation that i, in a nutshell, provided above, i ask again, what does bahaullah bring that i or any other human being saved through the cross of Christ cannot do without?
i do not hate bahai or bahaullah. however, i do love the truth. when people obscure or distort the truth, i defend it.
it is true that i am a sinner. as a sinner, i cannot be united with Perfect Being because sin and Perfect Being are incompatible.
through Jesus’ life, death and resurrection, my sins are forgiven and i am freed from my sins. although i have been freed from my sins, i still suffer from the effects of sin. i am weak and will sin again. however, Jesus knew i was weak and would sin again and accordingly, He took care of that too. He created the sacrament of confession wherein i can again be freed of my sins. this holy sacrament allows my relationship with God to be renewed even though i have through my sinful acts damaged or even destroyed that relationship.
so, i return to this theme. Jesus gave to me the gift of eternal life. eternal life is being perfectly united to almighty God for all eternity. after having accepted this gift, what else do i need from any other man? what could another man add to what Jesus has already given me? why should i care what abstruse or faulty doctrines some other man might concoct? Jesus has saved me. He has given me the Way to eternal life. after being given eternal life, all else pales in significance. that all else that pales in significance includes bab, bahaullah and all that they did and taught.
it is incumbent upon the bahai to elucidate what bahaullah adds to Jesus’ gift of freedom from sin and eternal life.
you may call my demand for such an elucidation hateful. in reality, it is the simple application of reason to the words of others and an honest attempt to evaluate those words of others in light of what i already know.
so, knowing the RC doctrine about sin and salvation that i, in a nutshell, provided above, i ask again, what does bahaullah bring that i or any other human being saved through the cross of Christ cannot do without?
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Servant19
Guest
No, Baha’is believe that we are all born as a “mirror image of our Creator” and it is only through lack of education that a distortion of the spirit comes about. We are born good. No child wishes to kill others. He is “taught” to kill others. No child wishes to be sexualised, he is “taught” to be sexualised.
The role of parents as sources for children’s modelling of behaviours is the chief educator towards these less goodly traits, but the inner longing of every soul is to commune with his Creator and do His Will. This inner longing is present at birth and manifests itself through the loving bond between mother and child…it all starts with love…
I prefer to call it “original love”
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eddie_too
Guest
i am pretty sure there have been some highly educated people who have committed horrible acts (i call them sins).
so forgive me for questioning the bahai doctrine that people do bad things because they are poorly educated.
so forgive me for questioning the bahai doctrine that people do bad things because they are poorly educated.
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Servant19
Guest
Baha’u’llah says that the primary reason why none of the Abrahamic Faiths ever became a truly global religion was because they were borne out of the “language of negation”
Humanity required the Will of God to be instilled into them through fear.
“Thou shalt not…” (from the Commandments)
“There is no God but Allah…” (from the Quran)
In this Day of Days, Baha’u’llah has eliminated the language of negation, as a reflection of the spiritual maturity inherent within human souls, would they turn their faces towards the Lord.
“He is God!..” (from Baha’i prayers)
Today, we have the capacity to carry out the Will of God, not out of fear, but for the “love of His Beauty”
Humanity required the Will of God to be instilled into them through fear.
“Thou shalt not…” (from the Commandments)
“There is no God but Allah…” (from the Quran)
In this Day of Days, Baha’u’llah has eliminated the language of negation, as a reflection of the spiritual maturity inherent within human souls, would they turn their faces towards the Lord.
“He is God!..” (from Baha’i prayers)
Today, we have the capacity to carry out the Will of God, not out of fear, but for the “love of His Beauty”
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Servant19
Guest
I’m talking about spiritual education…
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eddie_too
Guest
perhaps you could define what you mean when you write “spiritual education”.
so, it is the bahai claim that their children do not sin, since they have been given a “spiritual education”?
so, it is the bahai claim that their children do not sin, since they have been given a “spiritual education”?
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eddie_too
Guest
it sounds like the bahai are claiming they themselves are without sin, since they, being bahai surely have had the best and most correct “spiritual education”; right?
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nmgauss
Guest
Here comes caustic comments intended to divide.
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Espero
Guest
I can definitely see a trend even in the main three Abrahamic faiths that seems to focus more on love. However, I would disagree with Baha’u’llah in saying that the Abrahamics never became global. If anything, Christianity and Islam show how widespread these faiths can truly be.
It’s interesting to say that at first we needed to fear God in order to carry out His will. I strongly disagree with it, but it is interesting. I think the Bhagavad Gita shows even in earlier faiths that God was viewed as a close friend by many.
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Lochias
Guest
No, she’s trying to make a point as bluntly as possible, since that’s apparently what’s needed here. There’s nothing divisive or caustic about her question.
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Lochias
Guest
The fact that he doesn’t think that Christianity is a global religion is telling, as well as completely and utterly wrong.
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arthra
Guest
I’d be interested to know the source of this:
Baha’u’llah says that the primary reason why none of the Abrahamic Faiths ever became a truly global religion was because they were borne out of the “language of negation”
Because in other places it says:
The dawning-place of these splendors, the place of these reflections, and the appearance of these manifestations are the Holy Dawning-places, the Universal Realities and the Divine Beings, Who are the true mirrors of the sanctified Essence of God. All the perfections, the bounties, the splendors which come from God are visible and evident in the Reality of the Holy Manifestations,
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 147
I agree that the Bhagavad Gita has elements in it similar to the Gospel of John in the Bhakti elements. we may not really know though how ancient it is.
Baha’is do recognize Krishna as a Manifestation of God…
'Abdu’l-Bahá said: The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God’s prophets have brought the message of love. None has ever thought that war and hate are good. Every one agrees in saying that love and kindness are best.
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 35
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nmgauss
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Just saying something is utterly wrong is very ineffective. So is PRmerger’s habit of posting videos of adamant negation and in-your-face opposition. These attitudes are hardly conducive to friendly exchanges.
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Lochias
Guest
Only if a person is inclined to be offended by every fact or statement that goes counter to their own. I think rather more highly of the people I debate with than that, and don’t treat them like 6-year-olds, for my part.
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PRmerger
Guest
I am ready to refute them, caustic or divisive or not, as they depart from the Truth, given once for all, to the saints!
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PRmerger
Guest
They are nothing more than an animated version of the smilies. All GIFs that I show are in some manner or form available on the smilie list.
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PRmerger
Guest
No more than “he descended into a clinical depression” implies that depression is a place.
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