What did Jesus bring to the world that was not already brought by Moses?

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as a starting point, it is best to discuss why the bahai believe bahaullah is greater than Jesus.

Jesus offered His life on the cross for our salavation and redemption.

Jesus raised His physical body from death leaving an empty tomb behind.

on the other hand, bahaullah taught that Jesus did not raise His physical body from the dead. bahaullah married three different women and fathered more than on child. bahaullah lived his life to a natural end. bahaullah penned thousands of pages of writing.

while i see Jesus making the ultimate sacrifice because He loved me and wanted me with Him for eternity, aside from the fact that bahaullah may have had good will toward me (although i do not see any evidence of that in bahaullah’s life), there is nothing in bahaullah’s life that i need.

without Jesus, i remain in my sins, estranged from my Creator.
through Jesus, i receive eternal life and am perfectly united with my Creator.

what is there left for bahaullah to give to me? after i have eternal life, what more do i need?

what can bahaullah add to the gift of perfect union with Perfect Being?

just claiming that there is more i need besides eternal life is an indication that the person making the claim does not understand reality very deeply.
 
Eddie, I think you should look at the Bab’s life and offerings before you consider even approaching Baha’u’llah with these questions 🙂
 
i am perfectly content in knowing that those who claim to be followers of bahaullah cannot provide a simple answer to a very simple question.

after Jesus opens to us the gates to eternal life, perfect union with Perfect Being, and gives us what we need to obtain the eternal life He gained for us, what remains to be done?

after receiving from Jesus Christ the gift of eternal life, what possible motivation could i have for wanting to spend time learning about someone who claims to be greater than Jesus and yet has nothing to offer me?

it is perfectly understandable and acceptable that a bahai cannot give a coherent and clear answer to these questions. afterall, the bahai are following the teachings of a mere man and i am following the teachings of God Incarnate.

with Jesus, salvation is complete.

and after salvation, all else is secondary.
 
Isn’t there some process in mathematics called “squaring the circle”? Calling all mathematicians.
Squaring the circle is impossible, because Pi can’t be expressed as a fraction.
And the problem is drawing a square with the exact same area as a given circle.
 
Nope, you reap what you sow from the moment your life begins according to my understanding of ALL religious Words. The justice is manifestly obvious in this life.
Job would like to have a word with you.
 
i am perfectly content in knowing that those who claim to be followers of bahaullah cannot provide a simple answer to a very simple question.

after Jesus opens to us the gates to eternal life, perfect union with Perfect Being, and gives us what we need to obtain the eternal life He gained for us, what remains to be done?

after receiving from Jesus Christ the gift of eternal life, what possible motivation could i have for wanting to spend time learning about someone who claims to be greater than Jesus and yet has nothing to offer me?

it is perfectly understandable and acceptable that a bahai cannot give a coherent and clear answer to these questions. afterall, the bahai are following the teachings of a mere man and i am following the teachings of God Incarnate.

with Jesus, salvation is complete.

and after salvation, all else is secondary.
the tragedy is Eddie, the Baha’is have answered all of your questions before. Yourself and Ignatian seem to struggle with understanding our answers. I’m really trying to find a solution,and I will continue to try. My apologies. We can’t keep typing the same things again and again, and you repeat the question again and again…
 
You ought to be trembling at the thought, rather than putting a smiley face, if that’s what you truly believe.

Then you must think that all of us here on earth who aren’t in heaven yet are being treated unjustly.

Right?

You seem to be operating under the misapprehension that you are on a works-righteousness forum. Muslims and Mormons believe that heaven is their right based on what they do, as per my understanding.

Catholics do not believe that we get heaven because of what we do.

We get heaven because of what Jesus did.

How is it that Bahaullah would set anyone free? Do you claim that he is the lamb of God?
We believe that even if we obey God’s laws, it’s His Mercy that gets it into Paradise. So we believe that salvation is based on both works and God’s Mercy.
 
In Islam we have the Barzakh, which is like a waiting room. However, in Barzakh, there’s a mini-Heaven and mini-Hell. I know we have a concept similar to the Purgatory, but I don’t know much the details.
 
Of course I understand the circle is an analogy.

The question is, why is only the logic, reason, history and theology of Catholicism the truth?
That’s like asking why 1+1 only equals 2. If you read the logic, reason, history and theology with an eye towards understanding, you’d know the answer to your question.

Can’t read a book with your eyes shut.
When Judaism provides logical, reasonable, historical and theological value to the argument that original sin is not a truth, and Christianity does the opposite, who is believing the truth, and who is duped, as PR would say?
Both claims are scrutinized, and only one stands up to the test.
In fact, I would extend this to Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, the Babi and Bahai Faiths also provide similar offerings for no original sin
Yes, I’m sure you would. That ultimately doesn’t mean much, though.
 
since bahaullah had three wives, is it bahai teaching that a woman can have three husbands?
 
The Book of Revelation is full of imagery and allegory. It can be interpreted in so many ways. What do you understand of what the wedding feast of the Lamb look like?

Surely that’s a discussion that can be had if you’ve read the Book of Revelation yourself?
I’d rather you go straight to the source, so you can see for yourself. Then you can come back with questions, having at least tried to inform yourself and taken a step that shows you are serious about learning more of the faith and not just tearing it down, as has been evidenced so far.

Use this link as a guide while you read: usccb.org/bible/revelation/0

Ball’s in your court. Any further talking I do with you will hinge on whether or not you allow yourself to actually be humble, and read Revelation. I’m not going to waste my time with you otherwise, because I don’t engage those looking to hurt others. I’ll give you a week, and if all I get is flowery resistance, I’ll be putting you on my ignore list.

Good luck.
 
That’s like asking why 1+1 only equals 2. If you read the logic, reason, history and theology with an eye towards understanding, you’d know the answer to your question.

Can’t read a book with your eyes shut.

Both claims are scrutinized, and only one stands up to the test.

Yes, I’m sure you would. That ultimately doesn’t mean much, though.
Ok then, where do you see logic in the Trinity?
 
Sorry openmind, but that’s quite close-minded 😃

Its not what we “believe” Baha’u’llah is, its what was claimed by His predecessor and herald, the Bab, and later verified by Baha’u’llah.

Baha’u’llah says that had the Bab not revealed so much about the station of Baha’u’llah, Baha’ullah Himself would never have gone so far in His claims.

It was the Bab who said that Baha’u’llah was the “Sender of the Messengers” and the “Revealer of the Books”…

To truly appreciate who Baha’u’llah is, we must study the life of the Bab and revel in His miraculous existence and Christ-like Ministry…
:rotfl::rotfl: I am so sorry biut that was so funny. The open minded that close minded thing. That was Great!😃
 
We believe that even if we obey God’s laws, it’s His Mercy that gets it into Paradise. So we believe that salvation is based on both works and God’s Mercy.
This could be Catholic teaching:D Although we see it not only on Gods mercy and the death of Christ on the cross, we also see it as the grace of God that gives us works.

But I can say we can relate to what you are saying here.👍
 
Ok then, where do you see logic in the Trinity?
Where do you see illogic in the trinity? Do you understand what the terms in the original creed Hypostasis (person), ousious (Substance) mean? I would welcome a thread (because this is a topic in of itself) wherein we could discuss the trinity.
 
the tragedy is Eddie, the Baha’is have answered all of your questions before. Yourself and Ignatian seem to struggle with understanding our answers. I’m really trying to find a solution,and I will continue to try. My apologies. We can’t keep typing the same things again and again, and you repeat the question again and again…
No you haven’t. You have not answered my point about what the new testament claims about Jesus and his unique role in salvation for mankind that none other can fill. You just focused on another subject. You disbelieve in the new testament, period. You think Paul was mistaken, a good guy but he was just a man who was following his own intution and was mistaken in representing Christ.
 
ignatian philo is completely correct.

the bahai have said that the resurrection of Jesus in the new testament is simply methaphorical.

that is not what the writers of the new testament taught.

logic then leads the observer to conclude that, according to bahai teaching, the authors of the new testament were either liars (writing that Jesus’ rose His body from the grave knowing that He did not do that) or mentally ill fools (putting down words that describe an imaginary reality and not what actually happened, perhaps doing so because the loss of Jesus on the cross created a cognitive dissonance so powerful that they could no longer discern between reality and imagination).

as to the question i posed about what does a person need to know and do after Jesus’ sacrifice has given to that person the opportunity for eternal life, what more does a human being need? that has not been answered.

what can be added to the gift of eternal life that would make it a greater gift?

they will not answer that because even they understand that there is nothing greater for a human being than eternal life.

and, eternal life is given us by Jesus Christ.
 
what can be added to the gift of eternal life that would make it a greater gift?

they will not answer that because even they understand that there is nothing greater for a human being than eternal life.

.
Eddie,
. Eternal life in a purely a stagnant state is not the concept, or where there is no motion, no further growth. Paradise is the good pleasure of God, being near to God, not physically, but spiritually, and even that word must fall short of what that relationship is. It is being alive, forever serving, attaining to the good-pleasure of God in both this world and the world to come.
. It isn’t like you’ve parked your car and “have arrived now”. We seem to see it differently, and thats ok, but ask you ask with sincerity, there should be an answer given. So I don’t know what else to offer you other than this. I hope it helps you understand what our understanding is as Baha’is. It is our answer.

. "And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.

. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds.

. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station…. The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men.

. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High. The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples. They are like unto leaven which leaveneth the world of being, and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Through them the clouds rain their bounty upon men, and the earth bringeth forth its fruits.

. All things must needs have a cause, a motive power, an animating principle. These souls and symbols of detachment have provided, and will continue to provide, the supreme moving impulse in the world of being. The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation. Such an existence is a contingent and not an absolute existence, inasmuch as the former is preceded by a cause, whilst the latter is independent thereof. Absolute existence is strictly confined to God, exalted be His glory. Well is it with them that apprehend this truth.

. Wert thou to ponder in thine heart the behavior of the Prophets of God thou wouldst assuredly and readily testify that there must needs be other worlds besides this world. The majority of the truly wise and learned have, throughout the ages, as it hath been recorded by the Pen of Glory in the Tablet of Wisdom, borne witness to the truth of that which the holy Writ of God hath revealed. Even the materialists have testified in their writings to the wisdom of these divinely-appointed Messengers, and have regarded the references made by the Prophets to Paradise, to hell fire, to future reward and punishment, to have been actuated by a desire to educate and uplift the souls of men.

. Consider, therefore, how the generality of mankind, whatever their beliefs or theories, have recognized the excellence, and admitted the superiority, of these Prophets of God. These Gems of Detachment are acclaimed by some as the embodiments of wisdom, while others believe them to be the mouthpiece of God Himself. How could such Souls have consented to surrender themselves unto their enemies if they believed all the worlds of God to have been reduced to this earthly life? Would they have willingly suffered such afflictions and torments as no man hath ever experienced or witnessed?"

Baha’u’llah
 
Im tired of bahai quoting someone as if they believe he has an answer to every single specific question that is being asked today. News to the bahai, no ancient author could anticipate answers to every question so I suggest instead of trying to get us to interpret the words of your prophet in order to interpret your view, you lay our view as clearly and as telling as possible. I think however, you will be satisfied with vague mysteries which in the end tell me nothing.
 
daler,

nothing in your citing of bahaullah’s writings contains anything new to a follower of Christ.

like i said, bahaullah adds nothing to the revelation of Christ. this is the case most certainly because it is obvious bahaullah knows little about the revelation of Christ. but, it also is apparent because nothing bahaullah provides is necessary for salvation.

salvation has already been accomplished prior to the existence of bahaullah and salvation is the primary desire of God’s will for mankind.

this makes bahaullah’s very existence superfluous to a human being’s existence. bahaullah has nothing to add to our lives because everything we need has been given to us through the resurrection, life and sacrificial death on the cross of Jesus Christ.

you do not understand this because you have so little knowledge of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

but the bottomline is that after Christ frees us from our sins and opens to us the gates of heaven nothing more is needed for any human being in the realm of the spirit.

God has granted me through the saving sacrifice of Jesus Christ the opportunity for salvation, complete and perfect union with Him.

i am serious when i ask, what does a human being need beyond faith in the saving sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the divine grace that originates from that sacrifice?
 
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