What do we do when there are too many people on the planet?

[Rau]

No, because it is not the population itself we need to be concerned about, but the feedback loops.

 

[JamalChristophr]

I think mostly likely it will be a moot point because it will be at that time that the wraith come for the harvesting.

 

[IWantGod]

Without those feed back loops, there will be too many. Either way we are not in a good situation are we, when we need war, famine, and illness to reduce our numbers.

 

[IWantGod]

I don’t think you get it. Our spiritual salvation is guaranteed by God (assuming the human race repents), not our physical safety. This has been clearly left in the charge of human beings, which has been made evident by history.

Better you say, it’s not how long we live that matters, its how we live. Then at least i wouldn’t feel frustrated by your comment.

 

[Cruciferi]

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I stand with Commander Shepherd. The Reapers are coming…

 

[JamalChristophr]

I feel your time, people of earth, could be better spent by coming up with a plan that will defeat them and save as many of your people as you can. But I’ll just lurk around a bit and see what you guys come up with. The Galifrean high command has ordered me not to interfere with your timeline.

 

[Cruciferi]

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The Flood is coming

 

[Vonsalza]

Given that a war large enough to “correct” a population of billions would almost certainly turn nuclear, I think you should hope for plain ole famine. Especially if you’re above average in your income.

 

[anon65111186]

From the USCCB quoting the CCC and HV

each and every marriage act must remain open to the transmission of life.

The revealing sign of authentic married love is openness to life.

Any NFP training in pre-cana will tell you this.

the conjugal union must take place with respect for its openness to procreation; and the procreation of a person must be the fruit and the result of married love.

 

[JimG]

No need to hope for war and plague. Already, many developed nations have fertility rates that are dropping precipitously. Many nations are below replacement level, and can only sustain their populations and economies through immigration. But the drop in fertility rates is global and hard to stop. In another two decades if not before, all the talk will be of the imminent depopulation crisis.

http://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/march-17th-2017/the-new-population-bomb/

 

[Vonsalza]

…each and every marriage act must remain open to the transmission of life.
…The revealing sign of authentic married love is openness to life.
…the conjugal union must take place with respect for its openness to procreation…

Compared to NFP which is “estimate when she ovulates and deliberately refrain from sex on days where you might possibly get her pregnant”.

Just to be clear, I’m the only dude in the room that doesn’t think these two things jive? Everyone else thinks these two things are harmonious? Right?

 

[Rau]

So your reading of those words (as leaving open the possibility of conception) would rule out the sexual relations of the permanently infertile, sex after menopause and various medical procedures etc. That’s a misreading. It is not required that something be possible, just that we don’t act contrary to what each act inherently entails. All acts are to be ordered naturally, even if conception is clearly impossible.

 

[anon65111186]

estimate when she ovulates and deliberately refrain from sex on days where you might possibly get her pregnant”.

You might possibly get her pregnant anytime, that is the point. The degree of likelihood is the only thing that changes, it never goes to zero. It is up to you to ascertain the level of risk.

You go into it knowing anytime is possible. Being open to life means taking that chance knowlingly and not disobeying the teaching of Christ by using artificial contraception.

 

[Vonsalza]

No need to hope for war and plague. Already, many developed nations have fertility rates that are dropping precipitously. Many nations are below replacement level, and can only sustain their populations and economies through immigration. But the drop in fertility rates is global and hard to stop. In another two decades if not before, all the talk will be of the imminent depopulation crisis.

http://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/march-17th-2017/the-new-population-bomb/

These fertility rates also seem to be affected by the household’s economic situation as well.

Eurostat - Fertility statistics in relation to economy, parity, education and migration

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

estimate when she ovulates and deliberately refrain from sex on days where you might possibly get her pregnant”.

You might possibly get her pregnant anytime, that is the point.

Failure rates are a given in comparing any form of contraception like NFP. Per the rules of marginal analysis, it is thus excluded.

 

[anon65111186]

So your reading of those words (as leaving open the possibility of conception) would rule out the sexual relations of the permanently infertile, sex after menopause and various medical procedures etc. That’s a misreading. It is not required that something be possible, just that we don’t act contrary to what each act inherently entails.

Why bring up infertile or other non-issue cases? Of course it doesn’t apply to them because they are unable to produce new life.

The context was fertile married couples, you just added situations that I wasn’t even thinking of.

Of course they can’t be open to life, duh.

 

[anon65111186]

Failure rates are a given in comparing any form of contraception like NFP. Per the rules of marginal analysis, it is thus excluded.

Contraceptive users don’t do it with an open heart and mind to welcoming children, they have an inherently closed mind to life, as is discussed in HV, and that has consequences for their spiritual life and even for abortion and thr culture.

Failure rates don’t make a difference for their attitude.

In using contraceptives, they are saying a big no to life, to self-giving, to God and His Church.

 

[Rau]

The difficulty is that “open to life” is a somewhat vague, and often misunderstood, phrase.

I put it to you that:

• natural marital relations long after menopause are “open to life” (because the parties go not interfere with the natural course of the act
• infertile couples are held to the same obligations not to contracept as all others.

This is because “the probability of conception” is not what determines the licitness of the act.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Failure rates are a given in comparing any form of contraception like NFP. Per the rules of marginal analysis, it is thus excluded.

Contraceptive users don’t do it with an open heart and mind to welcoming children, they have an inherently closed mind to life, as is discussed in HV, and that has consequences for their spiritual life and even for abortion and thr culture.

It’s a nice anecdote, but it still remains that the failure rate for perfect condom use is roughly equal to the failure rate of perfect NFP.

-But lets rewind the track because that wasn’t really the point.

My point is that:

…each and every marriage act must remain open to the transmission of life.
…The revealing sign of authentic married love is openness to life.
…the conjugal union must take place with respect for its openness to procreation…

and

“estimate when she ovulates and deliberately refrain from sex on days where you might possibly get her pregnant”

Don’t jive. Concerns about attitude aside, your actions don’t line up with the principle.

But again - I’m apparently the only guy here that “sees” it.

 

[anon65111186]

Don’t jive. Concerns about attitude aside, your actions don’t line up with the principle.

But again - I’m apparently the only guy here that “sees” it.

They jive, they are consistent. You may be thinking abstinence is not open to life, that woukd be wrong. You may also think thr only thing that matters is intent, that would be wrong to. Not interrupting nature is one of the main issues, to where man can play God and be the Lord of life.

Whereas having sex only at likely infertile periods is not against conception (contra ception) but putting a condom on in any period (fertile or unfertile) is a grave sin that has been condemned out of the wisdom of God.

The ends may be similar (to avoid pregnancy) but the means are not.