What does it mean to abide "in Christ?"

[DavidChrist]

To abide in Christ is to live in the abode of the Spirit that is within us.

Jesus was the man.
Christ is the Spirit.

 

[ryanoneil]

Jesus answers all three of their questions but He does not distinguish between them by saying, “Here is the answer to your first, second, and third question.”

I am more partial to the “single-two sided-response view” about the Temple." In Mat 24:4-35, Jesus gives signs that will precede the Temple’s destruction and In 24:36-25:46 he conceals the precise day and hour of God’s judgment. During the close of the age, the Old Covenant age will terminate with Jerusalem’s destruction. This “closing” is linked with God’s rescue of the righteous and his judgment of the wicked (13:39-43, 48-50). And like I said from the begining, this prefigures Christ’s second coming at the end of time. This view squares with Jesus prediction that all these things would take place within one generation.

How do you explain (Mat 16:28; 24:34; 26:64)? I’m still waiting for moondweller’s response.

 

[SHW]

The link you provided doesn’t cover 70 A.D. Only up to the time of Herod the Great. You’re confused with Antiochus Epiphanes.It won’t be “another one.” But what Paul says in 2 Thess. 2:4 is what Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15.

You are correct about the CCEL link. I goofed. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

After further research, I believe that the abomination of desolation in c. 70 A.D. was when the Roman army and other armies surrounded the city of Jerusalem. These were heathen armies.

The following is not from a Catholic source but it explains how the Scriptures fit together to prove that this event happened in the Apostles’ lifetime.

Matthew says, they will see this “abomination of desolation” “Standing in the holy place” - this does not need to be understood as the temple only, but Jerusalem also, and any part of the land of Israel. to the Jews, all Jerusalem was considered holy.

Matthew 4:5 (NKJV) Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,

Daniel 9:24 (NKJV) "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city…

Revelation 11:2 (NKJV) "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Mark says, “standing where it ought not,” meaning the same thing. But Luke really clears it up for us.

Luke 21:20 (NKJV) "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

By reading the surrounding verses, you cannot deny that this is a parallel account to Matthew’s Olivet Discourse. Parallel accounts cannot have a different meaning. By combining Luke’s statement with secular history, it is clear that Cestius Gallus and his Roman army were the abomination of desolation. It was fulfilled in A.D.66 when the Romans surrounded the city of Jerusalem.

Chrysostom wrote: “For this it seems to me that the abomination of desolation means the army by which the holy city of Jerusalem was made desolate.” (The Ante-Nicene Fathers)

Augustine wrote: (379) “Luke to show that the abomination spoken of by Daniel will take place when Jerusalem is captured, recalls these words of the Lord in the same context: When you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with an army, then know that the desolation thereof is at hand (xxi. 20). For Luke very clearly bears witness that the prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled when Jerusalem was overthrown.” (vol. 6, p. 170)

C.H. Spurgeon wrote: (1888) “This portion of our Saviour’s words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ’s disciples saw “the abomination of desolation,” that is, the Roman ensigns, with their idolatries, “stand in the holy place,” they knew that the time for their escape had arrived; and they did flee to the mountains.” (Matthew: The Gospel of the Kingdom. . p. 215).

Albert Barnes wrote: (1949) “The abomination of desolation means the Roman army, and is so explained by Lu, xxi. 20. The Roman army is further called the abomination on account of the images of the emperor, and the eagles, carried in front of the legions, and regarded by the Romans with divine honours” (Matthew p. 254)

The Roman armies were an abomination and desolating ones to the Jews; not only because they consisted of Heathen men, and uncircumcised, but also because of the images of their gods, which were upon their ensigns: for images and idols were always an abomination to the Jews. Now our Lord observes, that when they should see the Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem, with their ensigns flying, and these abominations on them, they should conclude its desolation was at hand.

This was, therefore, Christ’s explanation of the abomination of desolation. The Roman army, heathen, with heathen images and standards, ready to sacrifice to idols on the temple altar, working the desolation of Jerusalem and the temple.

to be continued…

 

[SHW]

Continued:

After many predictions about the kingdom of God being taken from Jews and about Jerusalem’s destruction the Lord told his disciples that not one stone would be left upon another of the temple, it would all be destroyed. The disciples responded with the questions; “When, and what will be the sign of your presence and the end of the Jewish age?” In answer to their question, Jesus tells them that first the gospel must be preached to all nations and then the end would come. Then he tells them that THEY (not some far distant generation) would see the “abomination of desolation” spoken of by Daniel the prophet. He told them it would be a sign to THEM of his presence and the end of the Jewish age. He said it would all happen in THEIR generation. It did! They saw the “abomination of desolation” and when they did they fled to the mountains. Jesus can be trusted, his Word is true.

We need to begin to take the words of Scripture seriously, Jesus said he would return to that generation and he did. It’s time we believed his words :

John 18:36 (NKJV) Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

Luke 17:20-21 (NKJV) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 “nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Despite the clear words of Jesus, many are looking for a physical kingdom. His kingdom is here now, it came in AD 70, it is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical fleshly kingdom, and it did not come with observation.

bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/eschatology/abom_des.htm

Proof of Jesus’ kingdom being established is with the destruction of Jerusalem. Until that time, all the things pertaining to the OT Covenant were still “passing away.”

1 Corinthians 7:29-31 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.

2 Corinthians 3:10-11 “For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.”

1 John 2:8 “Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.”

This true light shining is the kingdom of God within us.

1 John 2:17 “And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.”

So, the abomination of desolation already happened in 70 A.D. and this event marked the end of the “passing away” of the OT Covenant and also finishes the “ushering in” of the New Covenant “kingdom of God reigning in our hearts.” The kingdom of God is truly within us when we do the will of God because by doing so, He abides (remains) in us.

Jesus’ kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20), it cannot be seen; it is not a physical kingdom on earth, it is instead the (royal) laws of God written within our hearts (Hebrews 10:15-16) .

Please refrain from stating that Catholics believe in only a “works based” or “works ‘only’ based” religion. This is not true. Catholics believe that Jesus redeemed us by grace alone and also that we continue to be justified by faith and works, and not by faith alone. (James 2:14-26, Galatians 5:6) After all, of the three, faith, hope, and love; love is the greatest and it alone remains forever. (1 Corinthians 13:4-13) Faith and hope are fulfilled when we inherit eternal life and then are no longer necessary.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 " remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father," Work of faith, labor of love, patience of hope: faith working through love.

Faith “alone” will not save you. (James 2:24)

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

Jeremiah prophesied of the New Covenant that the Lord will establish with “the house of Israel and the house of Judah,” i.e., the nation of Israel. Also, a favorite theme of his is that the Lord will “restore the fortunes of Israel.”

Ezekiel prophesied of the New Jerusalem, even giving its dimensions.

You’re confusing your O.T. prophets.

Jeremiah 31:31 is speaking of the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:38 is also speaking of the New Jerusalem which pertains to this same New Covenant. Jesus and His Father are the New Covenant’s Temple. (Revelation 21:22) You cannot separate the two.

The “fortunes of Israel” refer to “right relationship” with God. The whole Bible tells of the love of God for His creation.

Pax,
SHW

 

[SHW]

To abide in Christ is to live in the abode of the Spirit that is within us.

Jesus was the man.
Christ is the Spirit.

Jesus is both God and Man. These cannot be separated in His Person. God’s spirit remains in us (abides in us) only when we do the will of our Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21, 1 John 2:17)

Pax,
SHW

 

[ryanoneil]

For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Mat 24:27)

The OT depicts God’s presence and frightful punishment as a raging storm. This points to the swiftness of God’s judgment on the Jerusalem.

Cloud and darkness surround the Lord; justice and right are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him; everywhere it consumes the foes. Lightning illumines the world; the earth sees and trembles. The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim God’s justice; all peoples see his glory. (Ps 97:2-6)

Cloud and darkness surround the Lord; justice and right are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him; everywhere it consumes the foes. Lightning illumines the world; the earth sees and trembles. The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim God’s justice; all peoples see his glory. (Is 29:5-6)

The LORD shall appear over them, and his arrow shall shoot forth as lightning; The LORD God shall sound the trumpet, and come in a storm from the south. (Zech 9:14)

Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. (Mat 24:28)

Scavengers (Romans) who eat the remains of a carcass (Jerusalem). The Roman military standard had eagles as symbols of the empire. In the OT, the eagle (vulture) symbolized pagan nations who brought suffering upon Isreal.

"The LORD will raise up against you a nation from afar, from the end of the earth, that swoops down like an eagle, a nation whose tongue you do not understand (Deut 28:49)

Swifter than leopards are his horses, and keener than wolves at evening. His horses prance, his horsemen come from afar: They fly like the eagle hastening to devour (Hab 1:8)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (Mat 24:29)

Depictions of heavenly chaos are used by the OT prophets to predict the downfall of pagan kingdoms, and Jesus redirects this language toward Jerusalem who corrupted themselves like pagans and rejected him.

Lo, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and burning anger; To lay waste the land and destroy the sinners within it! The stars and constellations of the heavens send forth no light; The sun is dark when it rises, and the light of the moon does not shine. (Is 13:9-10)

When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens, and all their stars I will darken; The sun I will cover with clouds, and the moon shall not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken on your account, And I will spread darkness over your land, says the Lord GOD. (Ezek 32:7-8)

On that day, says the Lord GOD, I will make the sun set at midday and cover the earth with darkness in broad daylight. (Amos 8:9)

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Mat 24:30)

The tribes of the land saw the destruction of Jerusalem as an unmistakable sign that the rejected Son of man was in Heaven, enthroned.

As the visions during the night continued, I saw One like a son of man coming, on the clouds of heaven; When he reached the Ancient One and was presented before him, He received dominion, glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13-14)

and said to him, "Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he pleases into the sanctuary, inside the veil, in front of the propitiatory on the ark; otherwise, when I reveal myself in a cloud above the propitiatory, he will die. (Lev 16:2)

Oracle on Egypt: See, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud on his way to Egypt; The idols of Egypt tremble before him, the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them. I will rouse Egypt against Egypt: brother will war against brother, Neighbor against neighbor, city against city, kingdom against kindgom. The courage of the Egyptians ebbs away within them, and I will bring to nought their counsel; They shall consult idols and charmers, ghosts and spirits. I will deliver Egypt into the power of a cruel master, A harsh king who shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts. (Isa 19:1-4)

And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mat 24:31)

An allusion to the restoration of Israel as they were saved from their exile.

On that day, A great trumpet shall blow, and the lost in the land of Assyria and the outcasts in the land of Egypt Shall come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain, in Jerusalem. (Is 27:13)

Gathering his faithful in the Church, God rescues the righteous from the collapsing Old Covenant and the Gentiles from paganism.

Though you may have been driven to the farthest corner of the world, even from there will the LORD, your God, gather you; even from there will he bring you back. (Deut 30:4)

He shall raise a signal to the nations and gather the outcasts of Israel; The dispersed of Judah he shall assemble from the four corners of the earth. (Is 11:11-12)

After warning the disciples about tribulation, heresy, flight, and destruction, Jesus predicted the revitalization and reunification of his young Church (who had fled the Sanhedrin in response to persecution, and then the surrounding Roman armies.

 

[moondweller]

ryanoneil:

Oh, then you believe that (Mat 16:28; 24:34) was fulfilled before the last of his disciples died? That is what scripture says after all.

Matt 16:28 "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."I think we find the answer to your question right there in the context. Matt. 17:1-3 says:"Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him."Each of the synoptic Gospel accounts follow Christ’s statement with the Transfiguration (Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27). No doubt Peter, James and John were privileged among the others to preview, through the Transfiguration, Christ’s coming kingdom on earth. And Peter referred to the Transfiguration in reference to the “power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” in 2 Pet. 1:16.Matt 24:32-34 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, {right} at the door. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"Well, Ryan, one of the things that that “generation” would see is the second advent of Jesus Christ described in Matt. 24:29-31. None living at that time witnessed that glorious event. Unless you do as the Preterist and spiritualize away His second coming.

Generation in Greek is genea and can mean “race” or “family.” So what Jesus might be saying is that in spite of terrible persecution the Jewish race will not be exterminated, but will exist to share in the blessings of the Son of David’s Millennial reign on earth.

It’s interesting to note that as the Jews were returning to the land of Israel after the Babylonian captivity Haman tried to exterminate the Jewish race. Then centuries later Hitler tried to do the same in WWII, but he too failed; and right after that horrific attempt the Jews once again declared a nation in their ancient homeland. In both instances when the Jews were about to return to their homeland and a nation was again to exist, the Jewish race (genea) was threatened with extermination by Gentiles. And now that the nation exists once again the constant threat is to exterminate it (presently by Islam, next by Antichrist). This threat will culminate in the campaign of Armageddon when, according to the prophecies, the armies of Antichrist will invade the land of Israel in the latter days of this age. But, as revealed in Matt. 24, Jesus returns to put a stop to Satan and his puppet Antichrist, and instead sets up His own glorious, Millennial reign on earth - according to the prophecies.

You see, Satan knows that Christ’s coming again is prophetically connected to the Jewish race (genea) and the existence of a Jewish nation in its ancient homeland. Exterminate the Jews, destroy that nation, and the prophecies concerning Christ’s return cannot occur. Keep in mind what happens to Satan at Christ’s second advent (Rev. 20:1-3), as well as to his Antichrist and the false prophet (Rev. 19:19-21).

Amillenialism does theologically what Satan wants to do physically. It also aided in fueling antisemitism throughout the Middle Ages and modern Europe.

 

[SHW]

I am more partial to the “single-two sided-response view” about the Temple." In Mat 24:4-35, Jesus gives signs that will precede the Temple’s destruction and In 24:36-25:46 he conceals the precise day and hour of God’s judgment. During the close of the age, the Old Covenant age will terminate with Jerusalem’s destruction. This “closing” is linked with God’s rescue of the righteous and his judgment of the wicked (13:39-43, 48-50). And like I said from the begining, this prefigures Christ’s second coming at the end of time. This view squares with Jesus prediction that all these things would take place within one generation.

How do you explain (Mat 16:28; 24:34; 26:64)? I’m still waiting for moondweller’s response.

I agree with your view. Most major events are prefigured. The fulfillment is at the end of time for Matthew 24:36-25:46. I think that Matthew 26:64 pertains to the visual observation of Jesus coming with His kingdom at His Second Coming at the end of time; not the present spiritual indwelling of His kingdom within us in our souls/hearts (Luke 17:21).

Matthew 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” I think this Scripture pertains to the “end” of the “OT ‘age.’” The gospel was preached to the whole known world in the Apostles’ lifetimes. (Colossians 1:23, Romans 1:8, Acts 2:5, Romans 16:26)

I think His kingdom was fully ushered in at the destruction of Jerusalem (and its Old Covenant Temple); its destruction was punishment for the Jews who had rejected Him. The OT age passed completely away with this event. Only a remnant of Israel remains to be saved, and they will come into the Church shortly before Jesus’ Second Coming, during the time of Antichrist, after Enoch and Elijah witness to them.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”

I think “the tribulation of those days” refers to all the tribulations that the Church has gone through, and is still going through, and will go through yet during the time of Antichrist, up until Jesus physically returns (Acts 14:22) to gather up His people which meet Him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

**Moondweller **states that the Church will be with Christ when He rules in a physical kingdom in the State of Israel in Jerusalem:

The church returns with Christ. Where the Lord is, we are too (by “church” I don’t mean the RCC).

I wonder how perhaps a billion+ people will be able to live there in that small land area since when He returns, we shall all always be with Him.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

Pax,
SHW

 

[ryanoneil]

Matt 16:28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

I think we find the answer to your question right there in the context. Matt. 17:1-3 says:

“Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.”

Each of the synoptic Gospel accounts follow Christ’s statement with the Transfiguration (Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27). No doubt Peter, James and John were privileged among the others to preview, through the Transfiguration, Christ’s coming kingdom on earth. And Peter referred to the Transfiguration in reference to the “power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” in 2 Pet. 1:16.

Jesus didn’t expect all but three of them to die within the next six days. I don’t disagree that the transfiguration confirmed Christ’s sonship and majesty, but Jesus wasn’t refering to a preview (Mat 16:28). He was talking about them seeing the earthly evidence of (Dan 7:13-14). The destruction of the Temple was the physical proof of what occured at his ascension.

But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I order you to tell us under oath before the living God whether you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so. But I tell you: From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power’ and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’” (Mat 26:63-64)

Matt 24:32-34 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, {right} at the door. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"Well, Ryan, one of the things that that “generation” would see is the second advent of Jesus Christ described in Matt. 24:29-31. None living at that time witnessed that glorious event. Unless you do as the Preterist and spiritualize away His second coming.

Coming (parousia) literally means “presence” and can also denote appearing or visitation. The word “coming” refers both to Christ’s “visitation” of destruction upon Jerusalem as well as to his Second Advent at the end of time. You automatically fast forward to Christ’s return at the end of time, which is not the first sense of this scripture. And I do not spiritualize away his second advent because it hasn’t happened yet.

Generation in Greek is genea and can mean “race” or “family.” So what Jesus might be saying is that in spite of terrible persecution the Jewish race will not be exterminated, but will exist to share in the blessings of the Son of David’s Millennial reign on earth.

You are rationalizing!

If they understood Jesus to mean something other than the people living at the same time as His disciples, they could have used words that express race more clearly: ethnos (nation), genos (kindred), or suggenes (kinsmen).

Your senario implies that Jesus was pulling the wool over the disciples eyes with virtually meaningless statements that could wait almost forever, as long as there remained a distinct Jewish race. The plain truth is that Jesus was specifically answering a WHEN question from His disciples. He was speaking of events that would occur in forty to sixty years.

 

[ryanoneil]

I agree with your view. Most major events are prefigured. The fulfillment is at the end of time for Matthew 24:36-25:46. I think that Matthew 26:64 pertains to the visual observation of Jesus coming with His kingdom at His Second Coming at the end of time; not the present spiritual indwelling of His kingdom within us in our souls/hearts (Luke 17:21).

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I would say these were fulfilled, are being fulfilled, and will be fulfilled at the end of time. In the lesson of the flood for example The righteous are left and the wicked are taken. Jesus says “watch therefore” (Mat 24:42) on three levels. The disciples were to look vigilantly for his coming judgment on Jerusalem or they would fail to evacuate the city. They must look to the coming of Christ in the Eucharist to avoid judgment (1 Cor 11:27-29). They must watch for His Second Coming in glory at the end of history.

The same is true of the Parable of the Ten Bridesmaids. The time of the judgment on Jerusalem, the time of death, and the time of Christ’s return are all unknown. In the parable of the Talents the journey represents the delay between Jesus Ascension and God’s judment on Jerusalem, one’s lifetime, and His second coming. The Judgment of the Nations unfolds at two levels. His Second Coming and the judgment of Old Covenant Israel (Ezek 34:17-22).

 

[SHW]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I would say these were fulfilled, are being fulfilled, and will be fulfilled at the end of time. In the lesson of the flood for example The righteous are left and the wicked are taken. Jesus says “watch therefore” (Mat 24:42) on three levels. The disciples were to look vigilantly for his coming judgment on Jerusalem or they would fail to evacuate the city. They must look to the coming of Christ in the Eucharist to avoid judgment (1 Cor 11:27-29). They must watch for His Second Coming in glory at the end of history.

The same is true of the Parable of the Ten Bridesmaids. The time of the judgment on Jerusalem, the time of death, and the time of Christ’s return are all unknown. In the parable of the Talents the journey represents the delay between Jesus Ascension and God’s judment on Jerusalem, one’s lifetime, and His second coming. The Judgment of the Nations unfolds at two levels. His Second Coming and the judgment of Old Covenant Israel (Ezek 34:17-22).

I agree with you. The final fulfillment is at the end of time. I see what you mean by the judgment of Old Covenant Israel in Ezek. 34:17:22 and by 1 Cor. 11:27-29.

And, we are first each judged at the time of our deaths in our own particular judgments which determines where we will spend eternity; heaven or hell. The General Judgment is for all to see in order to witness God’s power and glory (Acts 10:42).

Acts 13:46 “Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.”

Acts 17:31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

There is only one day of Judgment, not two like Moondweller thinks.

2 Corinthians 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”

2 Timothy 4:1 “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:”

Jesus returns (appears) at His Second Coming and then judges His kingdom.

2 Timothy 4:8 “Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.”

Paul is explaining that His “appearing” and “judgment” are both on the same day.

Hebrews 9:27-28 “And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”

The “particular” judgment is immediately after each person’s death. The “general” judgment happens after He appears at His Second Coming and He saves the righteous at this general judgment which follows His appearing. Those who are “lost” do not eagerly wait for Him!

Jude 1:14-15 "Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15** to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way**, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

This is Judgment Day, the Day of the Lord, the Great Day.

Revelation 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.”

1 John 4:17 “Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.”

The good and bad are judged on the same Day. There are not two different judgments, one for the righteous, and one for the unrighteous, as some persons erroneously believe.

However, the righteous who have been perfected in their faith through love of God and neighbor; they will be able to have boldness (confidence) in the day of judgment. They will be saved for all eternity!

Pax,
SHW

 

[DavidChrist]

Jesus is both God and Man. These cannot be separated in His Person. God’s spirit remains in us (abides in us) only when we do the will of our Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21, 1 John 2:17)

Pax,
SHW

Jesus said that the “kingdom of heaven is within us” (Self) therefore you say,

These cannot be separated in His Person. God’s spirit remains in us (abides in us) only when we do the will of our Selves.

 

[SHW]

(Edited)

I meant that Jesus will always be both God and Man. His two Natures cannot be separated.

God abides in us spiritually when we do His Will. If our will does not match His, then we are sinning, wouldn’t you say?

1 John 3:24 “Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.”

We must keep His commandments in order to have the Holy Spirit abiding in us. If we do not keep His commandments, then we defile our temples and the Holy Spirit no longer abides in us. (1 Corinthians 3:16-18, Matthew 7:21-23)

Pax,
SHW

 

[ryanoneil]

Nice post!

And, we are first each judged at the time of our deaths in our own particular judgments which determines where we will spend eternity; heaven or hell. The General Judgment is for all to see in order to witness God’s power and glory (Acts 10:42).

And between the particular and general judgments the soul is purified (if necessary).

I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny." (Luke 12:59)

The good and bad are judged on the same Day. There are not two different judgments, one for the righteous, and one for the unrighteous, as some persons erroneously believe.

I agree. A good example is the parable of the wheat and tares (Mat 13:24-30, 36-43) where Christ says the rigtheous and the wicked will both grow along side each other until they are separated, judged.

 

[moondweller]

Jesus didn’t expect all but three of them to die within the next six days. I don’t disagree that the transfiguration confirmed Christ’s sonship and majesty, but Jesus wasn’t refering to a preview (Mat 16:28). He was talking about them seeing the earthly evidence of (Dan 7:13-14). The destruction of the Temple was the physical proof of what occured at his ascension.

Dan. 7:13-14 is referring to an earthly kingdom which Christ is to be given after the fourth beast (earthly kingdom) is destroyed. His kingdom is essentially a fifth kingdom on earth. It corresponds with Daniel chapter two where it says regarding Christ’s earthly kingdom to comean 2:34-35 “You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.”

Dan 2:44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and {that} kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.”

Your senario implies that Jesus was pulling the wool over the disciples eyes with virtually meaningless statements that could wait almost forever, as long as there remained a distinct Jewish race. The plain truth is that Jesus was specifically answering a WHEN question from His disciples. He was speaking of events that would occur in forty to sixty years.

Not really. He said this genea will not pass away until ALL the previous events take place. That would include (1) Daniel’s Abomination of Desolation, which, contrary to SHW insistence, did not take place in 70 A.D., history bears this out; (2) the great Tribulation; (3) the rise of false prophets with great signs and wonders; (4) the second advent of Christ immediately following the Tribulation with His appearing in the sky and ALL the tribes of the earth witness it and see Him returning with power and great glory; (5) and the angels gathering His elect.

None of these occurred 40-60 years after Christ’s words were spoken. None of them have occurred yet. The events He describes don’t even begin to resemble the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. by Titus. Matt. 24:27-31 describes Christ’s glorious second advent when ALL the peoples of the earth will see it. To say it refers to the destruction of 70 A.D. is a pitiful, pitiful interpretation, indeed.

 

[moondweller]

**Moondweller **states that the Church will be with Christ when He rules in a physical kingdom in the State of Israel in Jerusalem: I wonder how perhaps a billion+ people will be able to live there in that small land area since when He returns, we shall all always be with Him.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

His kingdom will include the whole earth, you know. The church returns to reign with Him, but it is possible her actual abode will be the New Jerusalem itself. Unlike the inhabitants on earth at that time, the church will have received their glorified bodies and commuting to and fro will be no problem.

 

[ryanoneil]

Dan. 7:13-14 is referring to an earthly kingdom which Christ is to be given after the fourth beast (earthly kingdom) is destroyed. His kingdom is essentially a fifth kingdom on earth. It corresponds with Daniel chapter two where it says regarding Christ’s earthly kingdom to comean 2:34-35 “You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.”

Dan 2:44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and {that} kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.”

There you have it. During the fourth kingdom (Roman empire), the Messianic Kingdom will be established.

But you believe a 2,000+ year pause is in scipture (where one doesn’t exist), Right?

Without inserting a 2,000+ year parenthesis, you would be forced to recognize that the eternal Kingdom of Christ was set up at His first advent (which is the Church that exists in heaven and on earth).

 

[ryanoneil]

None of these occurred 40-60 years after Christ’s words were spoken. None of them have occurred yet. The events He describes don’t even begin to resemble the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. by Titus. Matt. 24:27-31 describes Christ’s glorious second advent when ALL the peoples of the earth will see it. To say it refers to the destruction of 70 A.D. is a pitiful, pitiful interpretation, indeed.

Do you understand what apocalyptic language is?

Check your New Scofield Reference Bible which demolishes your claim. The parallel passages in Luke 21:20-24 were entirely fulfilled in 70 A.D. Also check your footnotes on Mat 24:16.

And don’t tell me they are talking about different events. You wouldn’t interpret parallel passages about Jesus’ resurrection that way (because they contained different details).

 

[SHW]

His kingdom will include the whole earth, you know. The church returns to reign with Him, but it is possible her actual abode will be the New Jerusalem itself. Unlike the inhabitants on earth at that time, the church will have received their glorified bodies and commuting to and fro will be no problem.

Moondweller,

Dan 2:44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and {that} kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.”

The kingdom depicted in Daniel is the Messianic kingdom which is already present on earth in the Catholic Church but it will reach its fullness with power and great glory in the New Jerusalem in heaven when all of Its members are in heaven, and this kingdom will last forever. However, He has yet to put all enemies under His feet. And when He does, then He will return for the rest of His Church which will include the Jews who convert during the time of Antichrist after the witnessing of Enoch and Elijah. Jesus will cast the Antichrist and the False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and Satan and all evil spirits (Revelation 20:10) into hell first before He returns. He must put all things into subjection to Himself before He comes again for His Second Coming.

There really will not be a physical kingdom on earth. Earth is Jesus’ footstool, never His throne. His kingdom was never meant to be literal physical kingdom on earth. Luke restates Isaiah 66:1 in Acts 7:48-50

“44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as He appointed, instructing Moses to make it according to the pattern that he had seen, 45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.
48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:****
49 ‘ Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the LORD,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’

Israel Resists the Holy Spirit

51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

It would help you out a lot with understanding the Bible if you could set aside the post-millennial stuff that has you hoodwinked into believing that it will be a physical kingdom. Jesus states that His kingdom is not of this earth. We should believe Him. His tabernacle/temple (physical dwelling place for His whole Person) is not on earth and never will be, as stated in Isaiah and repeated in Acts.

Stephen was blessed to literally see Him in His true temple (Revelation 21:22), which is in heaven at the right hand of God. He came to earth for a short while only, in order to redeem us and to establish His kingdom in our hearts/souls, which He has done already through the Church that He built on Peter to represent Him on earth!

What remains is for Him to return to take the rest of His kingdom home to heaven at His Second Coming so that all mankind will be always with Him forever. He will defeat Satan and the Antichrist in one last battle, before He comes for the remainder of His kingdom.

Until then, He is present in a miraculous way in the Eucharist in tabernacles of Catholic Churches throughout the world. He is already with His Church always in the Eucharist but eventually when His Church is all in heaven with Him (New Jerusalem), He will no longer be present in tabernacles on earth. There will be no need for them then.

These Jews in Acts refused to believe that their Messiah had already come and that He would not have an earthly kingdom, as you do also! So, they stoned Stephen because they did not like his testimony on this very subject! These Jews were expecting a military hero who would free them from the Romans and they would accept no other. Instead of a military hero, Stephen tells them that he sees Jesus the Messiah standing at the right hand of God in heaven. He is ruling from this throne and He will rule from this throne only, and no other.

John 18:36 "Jesus answered, “My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.”

An earthly kingdom is not Biblical and neither is “Faith Alone.”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5103895&postcount=4

A former Protestant addresses “faith alone” and “law” and more:

cin.org/users/james/files/triumph.htm

Pax,
SHW