What ever happened to our church?

[JulieAA]

I think it has very little to do with the changes in the mass and everything to do with our society and the need to be entertained constantly. Just look at the tvs in the cars, and yes they can be a godsend on a long trip, but I know moms who say they can’t live without them for just running errands around town. What happened to just letting the kid be bored and being creative on their own?

And 9 to 12 year olds, if they can sit in a classroom without toys, they can sit in mass without toys. That’s also getting to be the age that girls are no longer interested in Barbies. Kids don’t need to be entertained to the degree that parents think they should.

Patrice,

Ever so right; however, it has a lot to do with the “respect” factor. I can not even imagine what my mother would have done if we behaved in this manner…I shutter to think!
I won’t bore you with the story that my children and I witnessed at a local restaurant. Yikes, too many parents do not know what the word discipline means these days! Sorry, I am not generalizing “everyone”, just some that I have witnessed myself.

 

[dmorgan]

You have my simpathy, I see the child issues in my own parish, but not the picnic lunch.
Good luck with your parish Priest.
I have to disagree with the replys that do not see a connection between the Novus Ordo changes and this type of behavior. When The Mass was changed much of the Sacredness of the Mass was also removed. When you remove the Sacredness you remove a sense of the Sacred that parishoners could feel, and that they held in awe. I am not saying that the Novus Ordo does not have sacred moments, but the Novus Ordo in its entirety does not come close to the Sacred feel of the Trdentine Mass. I will admit that much of the problem of the proper attitude of the faithfull is do to improper catechesis. But the converting of the Mass from a Sacred Sacrifice to God to a social gathering with a small amount of Sacredness left in has had its affect. Try these to articles for a perspective.
Part 1: latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_SU_Ripperger.html
Part 2: latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_FA_Ripperger.html

“Ecce Agnus Dei qui tollit peccata mundi”

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

That is an unfair characterization. There is nothing inherently missing or disrespectful in the NO Mass that would cause people to behave this way.

Look at the show Cardinal Mahony puts on in LA and you’ll understand what I mean. And I’ve seen videos of priests playing limbo, dressing as clowns, and some other dis-respectful things at NO Masses. I’m not saying all NO Masses are like that, but my point is this: Did anything like that ever happen before Vatican II? The answer: No.

 

[Julianna]

Not all parishes are like that, but those are the kinds of things you may see since Vatican II. With the Novus Ordo Mass, always expect the un-expected.

oh here we go…

 

[momor]

Look at the show Cardinal Mahony puts on in LA and you’ll understand what I mean. And I’ve seen videos of priests playing limbo, dressing as clowns, and some other dis-respectful things at NO Masses. I’m not saying all NO Masses are like that, but my point is this: Did anything like that ever happen before Vatican II? The answer: No.

Let’s assume for the sake of argument that the EF Mass is the only form in the US.

Are you going to argue that even given our society today you would never see any of the same disrespect at an EF Mass?

 

[Erin_Anne]

Here is a notice that was in our parish bulletin this week:

Now that spring is here and summer
is close at hand, we ask that you
and your family dress appropriately
for Mass. Extremely short dresses
and skirts are inappropriate. Short shorts are inappropriate
for men and women, boys and girls. Low cut
blouses and shirts or tank tops are not suitable. Bare
midriffs and bellies or low cut jeans that expose the
stomach are not respectful wear. Dress up for the
house of God!
Those planning weddings should observe these clothing
guidelines as well. Many contemporary brides and
bridesmaid dresses are more appropriate to garden or
outdoor weddings than to church. Please be respectful
of the house of God.
Remember to turn OFF cell phones while in church.
If you must respond to a call, please step outside.
Make God more important than anyone who might call
you– unless someone’s life is depending on you.
Also, chewing gum in church is not appropriate.
And boys and girls, wash your hands! One’s hands are
a throne upon which we receive the Body of Christ.

Boy I wish some of the Parishes I’ve visited to would do the same.

 

[Erin_Anne]

Pope Pius saw it coming,

"A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, “Where have they taken him?” Pope Pius XII

That he did!

 

[ProVobis]

Are you going to argue that even given our society today you would never see any of the same disrespect at an EF Mass?

You have a point there. However, there are many types of people who wouldn’t be caught dead at an EF. And a few others who wouldn’t be caught dead at an OF. You can do the math and figure out the odds of finding disrespect at an EF, especially when people drive longer distances to attend one.

As for the OP, I found this type of circus activity in churches in the 70’s. It must be remembered that throughout all this the Mass is still valid. It must also be remembered that the NO was never promised to being as reverent as the older Mass. When you relax rules for fasting, greeting one another in church, clothing, head coverings, language of the Mass, musical instruments, etc, what do you really expect as far as behavior in church?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

That is an unfair characterization. There is nothing inherently missing or disrespectful in the NO Mass that would cause people to behave this way.

No, there isn’t, but it’s “Spiritus Sanctus’” goal to make people think there is.

 

[chrisman27]

I am a little surprised at the cooler.

but I have seen several catholics coming to sunday mass carrying coffee cups from home and eating bananas…this is like only 5 minutes before mass started, so there was no way they were following the obligatory fast of one hour.

 

[ProVobis]

No, there isn’t, but it’s “Spiritus Sanctus’” goal to make people think there is.

And your point?

 

[ProVobis]

I am a little surprised at the cooler.

but I have seen several catholics coming to sunday mass carrying coffee cups from home and eating bananas…this is like only 5 minutes before mass started, so there was no way they were following the obligatory fast of one hour.

I’ve been at churches that serve coffee and donuts before Mass. After all, the Mass is a meal, isn’t it?

 

[At_Trent]

I thought I’d seen a lot of Pope Pius XII’s quotes, but this is a new one for me. It is SO prophetic…they **“will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them.” ** Before I left the NO. parish that I’d attended since 1985 (It was also the parish that I attended during my high school years, the parish I was married in 50 yrs. ago this week, the parish that Baptized my 3 oldest children)… I asked several people where the Tabernacle was & learned that it was in the “crying room”.

Actually he was still Secretary of State for Pius XI when he said it. Here is a bit more,

Suppose, my dear friend, that communism is only the most visible of the organs of subversion against the Church and against the Tradition of divine Revelation. Then, we are going to see the invasion of everything that is spiritual: philosophy, science, law, teaching, the arts, the press, literature, the theater and religion. I am obsessed by the Virgin’s words, that she entrusted to the little Lucia of Fatima. Our Heavenly Mother’s standing up against the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that an alteration of the Faith would mean to its liturgy, its theology and its soul…

I hear around me those fascinated with novelties who would like to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the Church’s universal flame, reject its vestments, and make it regret its historical past. Well, my dear friend, it is my conviction that the Church of Peter must assume its past, or it will dig its tomb.

…the day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. It will be tempted to believe that man has become God, that His Son is only a symbol, a philosophy as so many others, and in the Churches Catholics will seek in vain for the red lamp where God wait for them. (Bishop Roche and P. St. Germain; Pie XII devant l’histoire, pp. 52 & 53)

Yes the whole entire family was eating and drinking and the whole family (baby not included) took communion.

Well, then that is Mortal Sin on the parents part and it is scandal as well.

 

[momor]

I’ve been at churches that serve coffee and donuts before Mass. After all, the Mass is a meal, isn’t it?

No doubt you’ve observed that ( and I’m sure you’re referring to a NO church here) but they are probably being served to the people from the last Mass! If people consume them before Mass and go to communion that’s their sin, not the fault of the ‘church’. I also remember selling baked goods and coffee in the vestibule of our church as a grade school fundraiser and that was when ‘gasp’ we were still celebrating the TLM before the evil NO Mass came into being.

 

[At_Trent]

That he did!

You bet he did.

 

[At_Trent]

No doubt you’ve observed that ( and I’m sure you’re referring to a NO church here) but they are probably being served to the people from the last Mass! If people consume them before Mass and go to communion that’s their sin, not the fault of the ‘church’. I also remember selling baked goods and coffee in the vestibule of our church as a grade school fundraiser and that was when ‘gasp’ we were still celebrating the TLM before the evil NO Mass came into being.

No it’s not the Church’s fault, but if they do it in sight of others, it is scandal.

 

[momor]

No it’s not the Church’s fault, but if they do it in sight of others, it is scandal.

That may be but it is no reflection on the church for having a social time after Mass as was implied by another.

 

[ProVobis]

No doubt you’ve observed that ( and I’m sure you’re referring to a NO church here) but they are probably being served to the people from the last Mass! If people consume them before Mass and go to communion that’s their sin, not the fault of the ‘church’. I also remember selling baked goods and coffee in the vestibule of our church as a grade school fundraiser and that was when ‘gasp’ we were still celebrating the TLM before the evil NO Mass came into being.

You’re right except there is no such thing as an NO Church anymore. Also in pre-Vatican II there was also a 15-minute fast requirement AFTER communion too, which made things tougher for the church to offer donuts and such. On the other hand, the percentage of those receiving in church before Vatican II was significantly lower than it is today so it wasn’t always presumed that everyone in attendance would be receiving.

 

[chrisman27]

what exactly does NO stand for
and EF stand for ?

 

[Onegin]

Ever so right; however, it has a lot to do with the “respect” factor. I can not even imagine what my mother would have done if we behaved in this manner…I shutter to think!

This is so true! Even as a very young child, I was able to comprehend the “rules” for Mass. I understood that food, drink and “home toys” were never to be taken to Mass. I had a small bag with some Catholic picture books that I was allowed to use when very young and then, once I got a bit older (and was considered able to concentrate) the picture books were replaced with a children’s missal.

It never crossed my mind as a child that I could bring in a toy car, a colouring book or any other such thing into Mass. It never crossed my mind that I could wear “play clothes” to Mass. Sunday was never considered ordinary.

Deo Gratias, these things stuck with me! As a teenager, every time I ever wanted to wear “street clothes” to Mass, there was something in the back of my mind that still knew and understood that this was wrong.