What ever happened to our church?

[momor]

You’re quite a remarkable guy, if I may say so. Focusing on the Lord while holding hands with another guy or girl and ignoring what he or she wears. How many can do that?

All the people who are focused on the Lord.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

I think a lot of this behavior stems from the lack of a belief in the Real Presence. If people went to Church thinking they would be going up to greet the Pope they would probably dress and act much differently. How much more so should we be acting and dressing our best to receive Jesus.

Theology and Morality.

In my estimation, most people had trouble with theology “back in the day” (hundreds of years ago) but today it seems to be morality; best example: contraception. But now, from whatever polls I have seen, its both fronts, Morality and Theology.

We are a family, even those who sin, so we are punished as a family. We get the liturgy we deserve. Liturgy makes history and moves the world. So as a result, not only are we suffering, but the whole world is as well. God help us.

 

[CMatt25]

You’re quite a remarkable guy, if I may say so. Focusing on the Lord while holding hands with another guy or girl and ignoring what he or she wears. How many can do that?

Sometimes I guess you just gotta do whatcha gotta do. But nah I’m not remarkable. Now the Lord. He is!

 

[Ockham]

With the Novus Ordo Mass, always expect the un-expected.

My wife and I have a standing agreement that when at NOs if liturgical dancing or something ala Life Teen breaks out we leave - immediately. There was a NO sermon last year that nearly caused me to stand up and leave but I offered it up and stuck it out. However, it was a close call.

 

[Ockham]

I noticed some of the strangest things at mass on sunday as I looked around finding myself quite distracted at mass this past sunday.

If it hasn’t already been mentioned Shannon, speak to your priest about your concerns. If he seems to endorse them ask again with supporting documents. After that your next step is to speak to your bishop. Don’t just write a letter because they are usually opened by others who may or may not be in communion with the Magisterium.

 

[ProVobis]

All the people who are focused on the Lord.

100% focus on Christ from everyone.

Yeh, right. Even the Pope falls asleep at his own Masses.

 

[CMatt25]

My wife and I have a standing agreement that when at NOs if liturgical dancing or something ala Life Teen breaks out we leave - immediately. There was a NO sermon last year that nearly caused me to stand up and leave but I offered it up and stuck it out. However, it was a close call.

I nearly walked out last month when a priest during his homily said his answer to some of the poor is to tell them to simply get a job. That was right before he complained about how some only give a dollar. Do all LT Masses have dancing? I was thinking of attending one but I wouldn’t dance.

 

[Ockham]

Do all LT Masses have dancing? I was thinking of attending one but I wouldn’t dance.

I’m not sure. Novelty is the hallmark of these liturgies so there is no standard with them.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

100% focus on Christ from everyone.

Yeh, right. Even the Pope falls asleep at his own Masses.

It shows why more attention should be payed to Christ instead of having all this stuff going on. No wonder the Pope falls asleep.

 

[ProVobis]

It shows why more attention should be payed to Christ instead of having all this stuff going on. No wonder the Pope falls asleep.

Or maybe because it’s really a “banal fabrication”?

youtube.com/watch?v=jn3yDGW7KaE

 

[Portrait]

Look at the show Cardinal Mahony puts on in LA and you’ll understand what I mean. And I’ve seen videos of priests playing limbo, dressing as clowns, and some other dis-respectful things at NO Masses. I’m not saying all NO Masses are like that, but my point is this: Did anything like that ever happen before Vatican II? The answer: No.

Dear SpiritusSanctus,

The pantomine that you describe above is a lamentable consequence of our Church endeavouring to marry the spirit of the times and it is manifestly obvious that this unfortunate trend has proceeded apace since Vatican II Council.

Undoubtedly not everything was right in the good old days and there was need for moderate change of sorts; John XXIII had summoned the Council with the aim of opening the windows of the Vatican and letting a breath of fresh air circulate. The air certainly came, not as a gentle breeze, but more as a turbulent storm. It was not long before the progressives moved incresingly into influential teaching positions in the seminaries and this has ensured the development of a radical appraisal of the dogmatic system.

The question arises as to the source of this counter-revolutionary spirit, as Hans Kung described it. Certainly John XXIII had given the radicals an exceedingly dangerous opening. After the ultra-conservative rule of Pope Pius XII, John drew a vital distinction which proved to be the rallying call for the progressives. He uttered the key words at the opening of the Council: “The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is interpreted is another”. In other words, the actual dogma is one thing, and its expression is another. Thus it is possible for a liberal in faith and morals to claim to be loyal to the magisterium whilst in reality undermining papal authority and Catholic dogmas by reinterpreting them and making them “accessible” to the modern man.

Part of the fall-out of this ‘revolution in Rome’ has been the coming of a new ‘freedom’ when there was, and indeed still is, a clamour to rid the Church of its supposed harshness and overscrupulosity and usher in ease and comfort with little or no emphasis on the pursuit of holiness and separation from the world.

All efforts at renewing the Church in the last forty years or so have proved entirely fruitless; there have been many false initiatives and misguided efforts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. Clearly if are young people are not earnestly saying their prayers and keeping the Commandments then every gimmick employed will be hopelessly in vain. The real tools for renewal are the Mass and the Rosary. If our youth have not an ardent desire for the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary then all their efforts are doomed.

Therefore by tolerating disloyal radicals and not imposing rigorous disciplinary measures on a large scale world-wide and by encouraging a “Catholicism Lite” style of discipleship, the Church has been gravely enfeebled, However, "whatever happened to our Church"as a result of false brethren within her bosom, there is always the possibility for a genuine new spring or Pentecost if the faithful will ask and seek “the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it” (see Jeremiah 6: 16).

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[SGT_ROCK_33]

Dear SpiritusSanctus,

The pantomine that you describe above is a lamentable consequence of our Church endeavouring to marry the spirit of the times and it is manifestly obvious that this unfortunate trend has proceeded apace since Vatican II Council.

Undoubtedly not everything was right in the good old days and there was need for moderate change of sorts; John XXIII had summoned the Council with the aim of opening the windows of the Vatican and letting a breath of fresh air circulate. The air certainly came, not as a gentle breeze, but more as a turbulent storm. It was not long before the progressives moved incresingly into influential teaching positions in the seminaries and this has ensured the development of a radical appraisal of the dogmatic system.

The question arises as to the source of this counter-revolutionary spirit, as Hans Kung described it. Certainly John XXIII had given the radicals an exceedingly dangerous opening. After the ultra-conservative rule of Pope Pius XII, John drew a vital distinction which proved to be the rallying call for the progressives. He uttered the key words at the opening of the Council: “The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is interpreted is another”. In other words, the actual dogma is one thing, and its expression is another. Thus it is possible for a liberal in faith and morals to claim to be loyal to the magisterium whilst in reality undermining papal authority and Catholic dogmas by reinterpreting them and making them “accessible” to the modern man.

Part of the fall-out of this ‘revolution in Rome’ has been the coming of a new ‘freedom’ when there was, and indeed still is, a clamour to rid the Church of its supposed harshness and overscrupulosity and usher in ease and comfort with little or no emphasis on the pursuit of holiness and separation from the world.

All efforts at renewing the Church in the last forty years or so have proved entirely fruitless; there have been many false initiatives and misguided efforts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. Clearly if are young people are not earnestly saying their prayers and keeping the Commandments then every gimmick employed will be hopelessly in vain. The real tools for renewal are the Mass and the Rosary. If our youth have not an ardent desire for the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary then all their efforts are doomed.

Therefore by tolerating disloyal radicals and not imposing rigorous disciplinary measures on a large scale world-wide and by encouraging a “Catholicism Lite” style of discipleship, the Church has been gravely enfeebled, However, "whatever happened to our Church"as a result of false brethren within her bosom, there is always the possibility for a genuine new spring or Pentecost if the faithful will ask and seek “the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it” (see Jeremiah 6: 16).

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Nicely stated… I couldn’t agree with you more. What modernists forget to remember is that nearly all of the attempts to “change” the church, or make it more accessible for non-catholics by making It conform to modern times, has been condemned by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

With that being said, I would refer Catholics and non-catholics alike, to read the Syllabus of Errors by Pius IX, and the Syllabus Condemning the Errors of the Modernist by Pope Saint Pius X.

Well done Portrait…

God Bless

 

[Portrait]

Nicely stated… I couldn’t agree with you more. What modernists forget to remember is that nearly all of the attempts to “change” the church, or make it more accessible for non-catholics by making It conform to modern times, has been condemned by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.

With that being said, I would refer Catholics and non-catholics alike, to read the Syllabus of Errors by Pius IX, and the Syllabus Condemning the Errors of the Modernist by Pope Saint Pius X.

Well done Portrait…

God Bless

Dear SGT ROCK 33,

Thankyou most kindly for your supportive comments.

A cordial welcome to Catholic Answers Forums.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Dear SpiritusSanctus,

The pantomine that you describe above is a lamentable consequence of our Church endeavouring to marry the spirit of the times and it is manifestly obvious that this unfortunate trend has proceeded apace since Vatican II Council.

Undoubtedly not everything was right in the good old days and there was need for moderate change of sorts; John XXIII had summoned the Council with the aim of opening the windows of the Vatican and letting a breath of fresh air circulate. The air certainly came, not as a gentle breeze, but more as a turbulent storm. It was not long before the progressives moved incresingly into influential teaching positions in the seminaries and this has ensured the development of a radical appraisal of the dogmatic system.

The question arises as to the source of this counter-revolutionary spirit, as Hans Kung described it. Certainly John XXIII had given the radicals an exceedingly dangerous opening. After the ultra-conservative rule of Pope Pius XII, John drew a vital distinction which proved to be the rallying call for the progressives. He uttered the key words at the opening of the Council: “The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is interpreted is another”. In other words, the actual dogma is one thing, and its expression is another. Thus it is possible for a liberal in faith and morals to claim to be loyal to the magisterium whilst in reality undermining papal authority and Catholic dogmas by reinterpreting them and making them “accessible” to the modern man.

Part of the fall-out of this ‘revolution in Rome’ has been the coming of a new ‘freedom’ when there was, and indeed still is, a clamour to rid the Church of its supposed harshness and overscrupulosity and usher in ease and comfort with little or no emphasis on the pursuit of holiness and separation from the world.

All efforts at renewing the Church in the last forty years or so have proved entirely fruitless; there have been many false initiatives and misguided efforts and hidden agendas, but all to no avail. Clearly if are young people are not earnestly saying their prayers and keeping the Commandments then every gimmick employed will be hopelessly in vain. The real tools for renewal are the Mass and the Rosary. If our youth have not an ardent desire for the Mass, the Sacraments and the Rosary then all their efforts are doomed.

Therefore by tolerating disloyal radicals and not imposing rigorous disciplinary measures on a large scale world-wide and by encouraging a “Catholicism Lite” style of discipleship, the Church has been gravely enfeebled, However, "whatever happened to our Church"as a result of false brethren within her bosom, there is always the possibility for a genuine new spring or Pentecost if the faithful will ask and seek “the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it” (see Jeremiah 6: 16).

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Another tool for renewal is the scapular. You left that out.

Good post, though.

 

[Julianna]

You mean Vat 2, a Church sanctioned oouncil? And after which as far I know, all the priests and hierarchy adhering to the fruits of Vat 2 were Catholic ordained. But you mean Vat 2 being the root of all the problems in the church today?

No CMatt. I was refering to Spiritus Sanctus comment.

 

[CradleCath]

Look at the show Cardinal Mahony puts on in LA and you’ll understand what I mean. And I’ve seen videos of priests playing limbo, dressing as clowns, and some other dis-respectful things at NO Masses. I’m not saying all NO Masses are like that, but my point is this: Did anything like that ever happen before Vatican II? The answer: No.

Do I HAVE to look at him? :crying:

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Do I HAVE to look at him? :crying:

Haha, no. I don’t think I could handle looking at him or his pathetic service again, either.

 

[CMatt25]

No CMatt. I was refering to Spiritus Sanctus comment.

Oh sorry. Spiritus said those are the “kinds of things you may see since Vatican II. With the Novus Ordo Mass, always expect the un-expected”. So I just thought you meant here we go again… on Vat 2.

 

[JosephdeMaistre]

When some folks go to Mass, I think they aren’t considering the fact that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. Some of them might not truly believe it.

If you knew that you were going to see our Lord this Sunday, would you wear flip flops and chit chat during the Mass?

It’s sobering to come to the knowledge that the Body and Blood are truly present, entirely, and yet the lack of reverence is commonplace.

 

[CMatt25]

If you knew that you were going to see our Lord this Sunday, would you wear flip flops and chit chat during the Mass?

Sure I would. I’ve never actually worn flip flops and I don’t chit chat a whole lot. But I’ve worn sneakers and I’ve seen people who have worn flip flops and parishoners conversing with each other and priests walking up and down the aisle conversing with their flock in not at all hushed tones and it doesn’t bother me in the least. Why should it? Christ walked amongst His flock in sandals and simple clothing. I would venture to say some of his disciples had sandals on too. I believe He would want us to fellowship with each other in His Presence and doesn’t care in the least if someone has flip flops on. Christ doesn’t say you can only come to Me in dress clothes.