What ever happened to our church?

[ProVobis]

what exactly does NO stand for
and EF stand for ?

NO(M) = Novus Ordo (Missae) Missal of 1970

= OF (Ordinary Form) now

EF (Extraordinary Form) = Missal of 1962 previously called TLM (Traditional Latin Mass)

 

[Timothysis]

Are you going to argue that even given our society today you would never see any of the same disrespect at an EF Mass?

There was a time when a man wouldn’t go to a restaurant without a jacket and tie and women would dress up just to go shopping. Does anyone believe that the lowering of dignity and respect is just limited to Church attendance? Do I have to tell you how many people I saw just now at Wal Mart who were walking around with their cell phone to their ear, totally oblivious to everyone and everything around them? I’ve even seen people on their phones DURING MASS, and the Church I attend celebrates a reverent mass.

Our society has replaced God with themselves, or at least the material possessions that seem to make life so meaningful. The more prosperous a nation becomes the less need for concerns about the afterlife.

 

[Lormar]

There was a time when a man wouldn’t go to a restaurant without a jacket and tie and women would dress up just to go shopping. Does anyone believe that the lowering of dignity and respect is just limited to Church attendance? Do I have to tell you how many people I saw just now at Wal Mart who were walking around with their cell phone to their ear, totally oblivious to everyone and everything around them? I’ve even seen people on their phones DURING MASS, and the Church I attend celebrates a reverent mass.

Our society has replaced God with themselves, or at least the material possessions that seem to make life so meaningful. The more prosperous a nation becomes the less need for concerns about the afterlife.

 

[JulieAA]

This is so true! Even as a very young child, I was able to comprehend the “rules” for Mass. I understood that food, drink and “home toys” were never to be taken to Mass. I had a small bag with some Catholic picture books that I was allowed to use when very young and then, once I got a bit older (and was considered able to concentrate) the picture books were replaced with a children’s missal.

It never crossed my mind as a child that I could bring in a toy car, a colouring book or any other such thing into Mass. It never crossed my mind that I could wear “play clothes” to Mass. Sunday was never considered ordinary.

Deo Gratias, these things stuck with me! As a teenager, every time I ever wanted to wear “street clothes” to Mass, there was something in the back of my mind that still knew and understood that this was wrong.

As I said, it all comes down to one word: respect! Too many parents either want to be their children’s friends or they simply do not want to deal with discipline and that is just too bad for the children. Guess some of us were raised under different guidelines. My Italian grandmother was only 4’ 8" tall and about 90 pounds at most, but let me tell you, all it took was “the look” and then we all got our act together!

 

[Timothysis]

Back at ya!

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Let’s assume for the sake of argument that the EF Mass is the only form in the US.

Are you going to argue that even given our society today you would never see any of the same disrespect at an EF Mass?

It’s true. You will never see any of the same dis-respect at a TLM. A TLM that has such things cannot not really be called a TLM, because having anything like that would make it a Novus Ordo.

 

[Phemie]

It’s true. You will never see any of the same dis-respect at a TLM. A TLM that has such things cannot not really be called a TLM, because having anything like that would make it a Novus Ordo.

That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.

If the EF were the only Mass ever celebrated and the same people attended it as attend Mass today, you’d still have that kind of behaviour because it’s ubiquitous in society. You will always have yahoos who treat every location as though it were their living room – or worse, their bedroom. They have no respect for anyone, not even themselves.

 

[momor]

It’s true. You will never see any of the same dis-respect at a TLM. A TLM that has such things cannot not really be called a TLM, because having anything like that would make it a Novus Ordo.

That’s pretty convenient. The Mass could start out as a TLM but if someone did something you found disrespectful you could declare it an NO Mass. Voila! Your assertions remain valid.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.

If the EF were the only Mass ever celebrated and the same people attended it as attend Mass today, you’d still have that kind of behaviour because it’s ubiquitous in society. You will always have yahoos who treat every location as though it were their living room – or worse, their bedroom. They have no respect for anyone, not even themselves.

By dis-respect taking place at a Mass, I mean dis-respect that was planned going into that Mass, not dis-respect that showed up without any warning that priests cannot help.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

That’s pretty convenient. The Mass could start out as a TLM but if someone did something you found disrespectful you could declare it an NO Mass. Voila! Your assertions remain valid.

A TLM can’t change into a Novus Ordo during Mass, just as a Novus Ordo can’t suddenly change into a TLM during Mass. A TLM is a TLM, and a Novus Ordo is a Novus Ordo. There’s no in-between.

 

[Phemie]

By dis-respect taking place at a Mass, I mean dis-respect that was planned going into that Mass, not dis-respect that showed up without any warning that priests cannot help.

That’s not what the poster asked.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

That’s not what the poster asked.

I know what the poster aksed, and my answer was no, that dis-respect cannot take place at a TLM. Like I said, dis-respect at a Novus Ordo is planned. You certainly won’t see Novus Ordo Masses accidentally having Eucharistic Ministers or handshakes in the middle of Mass.

 

[MarkThompson]

[M]y answer was no, that dis-respect cannot take place at a TLM.

Agreed with the above posters that this is an utterly bizarre statement – it’s impossible that someone could answer his cell phone at a TLM? Or bring food into the pews? Or are you saying that these wouldn’t be instances of “dis-respect . . . at a TLM”?

 

[KBernadette]

That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.

If the EF were the only Mass ever celebrated and the same people attended it as attend Mass today, you’d still have that kind of behaviour because it’s ubiquitous in society. You will always have yahoos who treat every location as though it were their living room – or worse, their bedroom. They have no respect for anyone, not even themselves.

I think people like that would feel very uncomfortable at a TLM. They would either straighten up, cease to go or be kicked out.

 

[CMatt25]

I think people like that would feel very uncomfortable at a TLM. They would either straighten up, cease to go or be kicked out.

I have never witnessed a picnic but cease to go and unwelcomed is sometimes how I feel when I read comments like I’m reading here. I’m not going to get into a debate on dress codes because I was just in one of those on another forum on the board. But when what someone has on in the pew next to you becomes so important, I’m thinking all your eyes will be only on my nice pair of shorts and nice buttoned down or pullover shirt and clean white sneakers. While my focus is on the Lord, not on how dressed up all of you are.

Since when is holding hands for the Our Father such a terrible thing? And I’m not female but sorry, if I were and about the time a priest would tell me a wedding dress is too much of an outdoor wedding look, is when I would find another priest.

But what I’d like to know is where on earth do all of you find all of these liberal parishes and priests nowadays! For the life of me I can’t find liberal ones anymore. As I too wonder where our Church went. As to me our Church used to emphasize things like poverty and peace far more .

 

[CMatt25]

oh here we go…

You mean Vat 2, a Church sanctioned oouncil? And after which as far I know, all the priests and hierarchy adhering to the fruits of Vat 2 were Catholic ordained. But you mean Vat 2 being the root of all the problems in the church today?

 

[ProVobis]

While my focus is on the Lord, not on how dressed up all of you are.

You’re quite a remarkable guy, if I may say so. Focusing on the Lord while holding hands with another guy or girl and ignoring what he or she wears. How many can do that?

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Agreed with the above posters that this is an utterly bizarre statement – it’s impossible that someone could answer his cell phone at a TLM? Or bring food into the pews? Or are you saying that these wouldn’t be instances of “dis-respect . . . at a TLM”?

What KBernadette said. Someone like that would not be comfortable there, and even if someone like that showed up they’d be asked to stop or leave. And how often is it that someone like that shows up for a TLM? And the dis-respect you speak of isn’t planned. Therefore the TLM is innocent of any PLANNED dis-respect what-so-ever.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

This is the kind of thing I would make an appointment for to speak with the priest at a time when he isn’t distrascted by other parishioners. Especially if you can describe the family in question.

Yes the whole entire family was eating and drinking and the whole family (baby not included) took communion.

I can certainly understand toddlers having sippy cups, bottles or even some gold fish crackers or something but an entire family literally having a picnic in the church before taking communion is just not right… I didnt get a chance to speak to Fr. about it as he was quite busy after mass with a crowd but I am more then likely attending mass tomorrow so I certainly will.

The "children playing with barbies were older children between 9 and 12 years of age, and the people wearing track suits and even pajamas were teens and young adults not the old an infirm. I plan on asking the priest about this as well. I dont know if he just cant see past the first few pews of people or if he is ignoring everything so as not to offend anyone.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

I wish they would post this in our church bulletin. I can see all the snotty soccer moms and fathers saying “how dare they tell me what to do”.

Here is a notice that was in our parish bulletin this week:

Now that spring is here and summer
is close at hand, we ask that you
and your family dress appropriately
for Mass. Extremely short dresses
and skirts are inappropriate. Short shorts are inappropriate
for men and women, boys and girls. Low cut
blouses and shirts or tank tops are not suitable. Bare
midriffs and bellies or low cut jeans that expose the
stomach are not respectful wear. Dress up for the
house of God!
Those planning weddings should observe these clothing
guidelines as well. Many contemporary brides and
bridesmaid dresses are more appropriate to garden or
outdoor weddings than to church. Please be respectful
of the house of God.
Remember to turn OFF cell phones while in church.
If you must respond to a call, please step outside.
Make God more important than anyone who might call
you– unless someone’s life is depending on you.
Also, chewing gum in church is not appropriate.
And boys and girls, wash your hands! One’s hands are
a throne upon which we receive the Body of Christ.