What if I made a mistake becoming Catholic?

[NaturalEnquirer]

And, if the back of the church doesn’t work, try the front. That’s what we do and it works like a charm. More to look at for a little one. I also let my ds look at a book or write during the homily. He’s almost 5, and has to pay attention to everything else, but during that 15 minute period he can do an activity.

I like the front of the church, too. Lets our daughter see more than just the heads of people in front of us. Once in a while she makes little additions to the mass - “Father there!”, “Hi Jesus!”, or “More song,” but people usually don’t seem to object.

But when the front row’s not available, it’s a lot harder to keep her quiet. Of course, that’s why parents get the big bucks.

By the way, sorry for the double post.

 

[JudiTherese]

I don’t quite agree with this as father is talking to all of us and the other times of prayers are when the children hear the repeated prayers and will learn them just from repetition but you are reinforcing ignoring the priest.
Other people are not polite to stare ither.

I admit that my advice does not reinforce money but giving to the church and my mother always said it would go to missions to help othe poor and she was honest about the entire situation.
I was just trying to help as getting the children involved in the mass.

I’m a little confused. In an earlier post you reccommended bringing a book for the child. I don’t quite get how I am encouraging my child to ignore the priest. My son is very good during Mass and gets complimented almost weekly. He wasn’t always so great, so I’m pretty proud of him. He’s almost 5. He absorbs what he can. Give us a break.

 

[Church_Militant]

This is one reason that I am so glad that I am in the parish that I am.

Our priests feel that children are a sign of life from God in the church. If a toddler gets loose and wanders up towards the front, Mom or Dad will retrieve them gently, but there’s no consternation. Mostly there are smiles all around.

If a child cries or gets fussy, they most often are taken to the cry room, but if they are being good otherwise and are happy then it’s no problem.

The body of Christ is a family and children are members of that family as well. Our Lord knows us as we are.

We really need to be patient and compassionate with each other.

 

[jemfinch]

I also have a problem with the Magesterium ignoring the “divorce clause” in Matthew for adultery. Not because I am in that situation, but becuase the Church is overruling a specific clear statement of Jesus himself. I trusted the Church would always interpret Scripture but be in harmony with it, not contradict it.

It’s not that the Magisterium is ignoring it. It’s that you’re misinterpreting it. It doesn’t even say the word “adultery” – that’s moicheia. It says porneias, that is, fornication, and it’s there primarily to vindicate Joseph’s consideration of divorcing Mary because of her apparent porneias resulting in her pregnancy. Note that not only is Matthew the only gospel to include such a provision, but that it’s also the only gospel that tells us that Joseph considered divorcing Mary.

Even some Protestants have come to this conclusion. It’s the only position that makes sense: God hates divorce. The idea that divorce (something God hates) is only justified by adultery (something else God hates) is a ridiculous notion.

Jeremy

 

[dessert]

I’m a little confused. In an earlier post you reccommended bringing a book for the child. I don’t quite get how I am encouraging my child to ignore the priest. My son is very good during Mass and gets complimented almost weekly. He wasn’t always so great, so I’m pretty proud of him. He’s almost 5. He absorbs what he can. Give us a break.

Sorry I didn’t mean it to be rude at all, I’m glad it is working out for you! Dessert

 

[fellowChristian]

Images and Statues

Deut. 4:15 - from this verse, Protestants say that since we saw “no form” of the Lord, we should not make graven images of Him.

Deut. 4:16 - of course, in early history Israel was forbidden to make images of God because God didn’t yet reveal himself visibly “in the form of any figure.”

Deut. 4:17-19 - hence, had the Israelites depicted God not yet revealed, they might be tempted to worship Him in the form of a beast, bird, reptile or fish, which was a common error of the times.

Exodus 3:2-3; Dan 7:9; Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32; Acts 2:3- later on, however, we see that God did reveal himself in visible form (as a dove, fire, etc).

Deut. 5:8 - God’s commandment “thou shall not make a graven image” is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped.

Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - **for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God. **

**
Num. 21:8-9 **- **God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural. **

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.

**2 Kings 18:4 **- **it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God’s wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images. **

1 Chron. 28:18-19 - **David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews’ most solemn place of worship. **

**2 Chron. 3:7-14 **- **the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold. **

Ezek. 41:15 - **Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches. **

Col. 1:15 - **the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the “image” (Greek “eikon”) of the invisible God. **

 

[dad94513]

Thomas! Don’t persist in your unbelieving! You are letting satan confuse you. All answers don’t come in a day. Faith takes time, nurturing, maturing. It never ends, just grows…over time. When you get frustrated, STOP. Your prayers will be answered and you will have your revelation. We can’t answer you as you will not hear. Trust the Holy Spirit, the teacher of TRUTH, and it will come. IN TIME. Go about your day. Stop pushing and just trust that what God brought you to, He will get you through. It just keeps getting better…Peace be with you.

 

[kbharbert]

You’re not alone. That is why so many have left the RCC. Many Catholics will say they don’t worship Mary… but actions speak volumes. Listen to your conscience. Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. Get back into God’s Word and the Holy Spirit will guide you.

catholics SAY they do not worship Mary because we do not worship Mary.
if anyone learns the MINIMUM of the catholic faith they learn that placing Mary on the same level as God (worshiping her) is blasphemy!!!
and anyone who SAYS they attend Mass but hear nothing about Jesus did NOT attend Mass. the ENTIRE mass is ABOUT Jesus!

 

[sires6]

This may seem a strange question, but we recently became Catholics which I was very keen to do, but we cannot go to Mass as a family (our toddler plays up and I get angry with my son when people look). In our old protestant churches where contraception is allowed, there are crying rooms and creches, yet in our Parish there is no such thing, so we need to separate. I am sure that is not what God would want, yet I cannot ignore the stares.

I am also having real problems with Our Lady. I actually thought I had advanced a long way. I thought prayers like the Memorare that seemed to place Mary on par with God were rare, but there are lots of them and I am discovering so much Marian devotion that it’s like Jesus is forgotten. I used to defend Catholics when Prots said that catholics worshipped Mary, but now I am in the Church, I have to admit it is actually quite true! More prayers are said to Mary than the Holy Spirit, who is one of the Trinity, or even Jesus it seems…think Hail Marys, for instance. We can pray directly to God in Jesus name (as he said), so although I accept praying for intercession, Our Lady should not be a necessary step unless we want her to be. Terms like Mediatrix of all grace are misleading. What about co-redemptrix?

What’s more “prayer aids” such as statues with kneelers are a violation against the graven images commandment.

I also have a problem with the Magesterium ignoring the “divorce clause” in Matthew for adultery. Not because I am in that situation, but becuase the Church is overruling a specific clear statement of Jesus himself. I trusted the Church would always interpret Scripture but be in harmony with it, not contradict it.

If I follow my conscience, do I become an apostate and therefore damned?

Wow. It sounds as if you have a lot of questions! When I first came to RCIA I was confused and didn’t understand a lot. When I entered the Church, I STILL had questions. Your faith formation is just that, formation. You are still learning! Don’t toss the baby out with the bath water! You have some legitimate questions and it seems that others have answered them admirably. I would encourage you to talk to the person who helped you in your formation (the RCIA coordinator), or the priest.

Most of all, if you have a question like the ones you are asking, it is not the church who is in error, it is merely your understanding. The Church has been around, clearing the way for the Truth for 2000 years and your questions are the same ones faithful have been asking since Christ left the Apostles looking up at the sky. Trust in the faith that has been given you and when you run into a road block (We worship Mary or Praying to Idols… which are common objections to the Catholic Faith) then ASK, ASK, ASK! and beleive that you have found the faith that Christ instituted 2000 years ago. You’re here! You made it!

biblechristiansociety.com/
Bible Christian Society has wonderful mp3’s you can download for free/next to nothing that explain and help with these questions.

Hope this helps and be encouraged! We’re all here to help!

 

[tlcortez]

Can I ask what made you and your husband want to become Catholic in the first place?

I have never heard any prayers to Mary during the Mass.

Wow. I’m sorry, but Catholicism seems so durn complicated - huge words, complex laws and rules, technicalities, rare exceptions, etc. No wonder there are so many “mysteries” - there’s so much to wrap your brain around. It’s hard for me to feel “spiritual” in the midst of all this church “legal-eze”. Where’s God? When I stand on a beach looking out over the ocean, feet firm on wet sand, powerful waves rising and breaking in a loud roar then melting peacefully again and lapping playfully along the shore, I feel God. He’s not in words, in anything written or so complex that it takes several cups of coffee to handle. I’d like to think that if I were an uneducated person born in an “undeveloped” part of the world, eating berries, killing animals for meat, and wearing my babies wherever I went, that I’d know enough, innately, to be welcomed by God at the end of my days. If I were God, I’d have planted a seed in my human creations so that no matter where they are nor what sort of circumstances they lived in, they would possess enough knowledge of me in their hearts, sans any complicated text or instruction, to be whole and “saved”. Rumi said, “All religions, all this singing, is one song. The differences are just illusion and vanity.” Isn’t this even a little bit true? I miss the God I knew as a little girl before I knew much of anything at all…

 

[jmcrae]

Wow. I’m sorry, but Catholicism seems so durn complicated - huge words, complex laws and rules, technicalities, rare exceptions, etc.

It doesn’t have to be. Someone who just comes and sits at Mass is just as welcome as someone who investigates and asks a lot of questions.

No wonder there are so many “mysteries” - there’s so much to wrap your brain around. It’s hard for me to feel “spiritual” in the midst of all this church “legal-eze”. Where’s God?

In the Tabernacle of the Catholic Church. The first time I ever walked into a Catholic Church, I could feel Him there, and I instinctively knew that He was present in a way more awesome than I had ever experienced before in my whole life. It was not until much later that I began to be taught about the Real Presence, but I experienced it long before I was ever taught about it.

When I stand on a beach looking out over the ocean, feet firm on wet sand, powerful waves rising and breaking in a loud roar then melting peacefully again and lapping playfully along the shore, I feel God. He’s not in words, in anything written or so complex that it takes several cups of coffee to handle. I’d like to think that if I were an uneducated person born in an “undeveloped” part of the world, eating berries, killing animals for meat, and wearing my babies wherever I went, that I’d know enough, innately, to be welcomed by God at the end of my days.

That’s because you’d probably be Catholic.

If I were God, I’d have planted a seed in my human creations so that no matter where they are nor what sort of circumstances they lived in, they would possess enough knowledge of me in their hearts, sans any complicated text or instruction, to be whole and “saved”.

This is what draws so many people to the Catholic Church.

 

[justacloserwalk]

I did not understand the use of statues or icons in the RCC or the Orthodox Church for a long time.
I was asked if I had photos of my family hanging on walls etc…and of course I do! I even have photos of ancestors I have never met.

I have been to St Peters in Rome and the statues are of early Christian martyrs who are remembered for their faith. Evidently they made a big impression and the early Church honored them in this way.

In Revelation it speaks of the Martyrs…
the body of St Paul is buried under the alter at St Pauls in Rome…and after hearing the priest say why they had every reason to believe that it was him I believed it as well.
They probably would have used photographs instead had it been possible to do so.
…
Statues are for us to remember our “family” that has gone before us.
We can look back and find they were faithful, even to the point of death.

IMO…the focus should always be on Jesus Christ…in any service, Catholic or Protestant.
Remember what the Blessed Mother said “Do what HE tells you to do” …words we would all do well to live by.

I understand the difference between veneration and worship. I would think that if a person spends more time with a Saint, or the BVM than they do with the Lord then they might do well to examine themselves.
That is just my opinion.

You can tell what idols are in your life by looking at your checkbook.
Where do you spend your money?
I think everyone has idols in their life that need to be torn down. Where do you spend most of your time? What does your mind drift to when it is in neutral?
The Lord Jesus Christ is to have first place in everything.
I am speaking to myself as well as everyone else…l…my own toes just got stepped on…lol.

There was post about a parish being “anti protestant” I have been around Catholics that were anti protestant and protestants that were anti catholic.
When we run down someone who professes to believe in the same Lord and Savior we do …we are hurting the Lord by tearing them down.

There is alot of ignorance on both sides, thankfully no one is burning one another any more!
We don’t have to argree to be in the same family!
There is ONE Lord, ONE baptism…If Jesus Christ is lifted up in YOUR life it says more to the “other” side than you can imagine.
Let your life speak for itself and leave the rest to God. He alone can judge our hearts.

Barbara

 

[lak611]

I did not understand the use of statues or icons in the RCC or the Orthodox Church for a long time.
I was asked if I had photos of my family hanging on walls etc…and of course I do! I even have photos of ancestors I have never met.

I have been to St Peters in Rome and the statues are of early Christian martyrs who are remembered for their faith. Evidently they made a big impression and the early Church honored them in this way.

In Revelation it speaks of the Martyrs…
the body of St Paul is buried under the alter at St Pauls in Rome…and after hearing the priest say why they had every reason to believe that it was him I believed it as well.
They probably would have used photographs instead had it been possible to do so.
…
Statues are for us to remember our “family” that has gone before us.
We can look back and find they were faithful, even to the point of death.

IMO…the focus should always be on Jesus Christ…in any service, Catholic or Protestant.
Remember what the Blessed Mother said “Do what HE tells you to do” …words we would all do well to live by.

I understand the difference between veneration and worship. I would think that if a person spends more time with a Saint, or the BVM than they do with the Lord then they might do well to examine themselves.
That is just my opinion.

You can tell what idols are in your life by looking at your checkbook.
Where do you spend your money?
I think everyone has idols in their life that need to be torn down. Where do you spend most of your time? What does your mind drift to when it is in neutral?
The Lord Jesus Christ is to have first place in everything.
I am speaking to myself as well as everyone else…l…my own toes just got stepped on…lol.

There was post about a parish being “anti protestant” I have been around Catholics that were anti protestant and protestants that were anti catholic.
When we run down someone who professes to believe in the same Lord and Savior we do …we are hurting the Lord by tearing them down.

There is alot of ignorance on both sides, thankfully no one is burning one another any more!
We don’t have to argree to be in the same family!
There is ONE Lord, ONE baptism…If Jesus Christ is lifted up in YOUR life it says more to the “other” side than you can imagine.
Let your life speak for itself and leave the rest to God. He alone can judge our hearts.

Barbara

That is a beautiful post. You have said so eloquently what I believe but am unable to put into words. :hug3:

 

[kentuckyliz]

I’ve been where you are: believing in enough of the RC distinctives that can be found nowhere else, yet struggling with other things, and crying out from the heart: Lord, where shall I go? You have the words of eternal life! I cannot walk away! Lord, I believe, help my unbelief!

I know lots of folks who converted to RC because they had large families and were criticized by the original churches they grew up in. (Seems like anything over four arrows in your quiver gets scorned.) The RC church was the only place that valued their large family.

I didn’t know what a Protestant was until some people started attacking my faith (in my late 20’s) and then I had to start reading up on history and boom, there it was. I didn’t know there was Christian disunity until its bad fruits made me learn about it. I never heard a word about Protestantism in my Catholic Church, and still don’t. There is far more charity and generosity in recognizing the communion, salvation, and gifts of the separated brethren and “all whose faith is known to God alone” (Eucharistic Prayer IV) than there is coming back our way. In this way, we imitate the Lord and experience beatitude, suffering persecution for His name’s sake. Just as He was mocked and spat upon, so today still is his body, the Church. I expect it from the atheists and non-Christians; but it really is scandalous when other Christians do it. It violates the express will of God according to the Word of God in John 17.

I grew up Catholic and never learned how to say any Marian prayers or the Rosary and never saw anyone kneel in front of a statue of her or anyone. I was utterly deprived! (ha) Much later in life, I learned how to pray the Rosary, and developed a relationship with her, and she led me closer to her Son; she made me grow in my capacity to know and love Jesus and my neighbor. I already loved Jesus; I was for a long time a Jesus-only, Bible-only, churchless lapsed Catholic. I just read my Bible in the Spirit daily. (It led me to become a convinced Catholic, by the way! I read the whole thing, not just what someone else told me to underline and what their opinion of it was. I am grateful for this time away, learning the Bible for myself without any “tradition of men” trying to persuade me of their way. It helped me find the house that the wise man built on a rock, that has stood through all the storms.)

So what difference did Marian devotion make? Judge the good fruits: I gave up feminism and a pro-contraceptive and pro-choice (pro-abortion) system of thought that no person on this earth could have dissuaded me from. It was very intellectual and confirmed in misguided compassion. That humble, gentle woman took my hand and led me. Meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary, and coming to see how we live the mysteries in our own lives, deepened my faith to the nth degree.

How can one pray, “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb!” (a scriptural prayer) and hate fertility and embrace contraception and “choice”? “Be it done unto me according to Thy word!” God populates heaven through ensouling babies at conception. He’s not making any more angels; angels don’t have babies. I think some of the separated brethren have embraced contraception and abortion against the Lord and Giver of Life because they refuse to pray this scriptural prayer. They have also taken a black marker to their Bibles in Gen 38 to black out the sin of Onan: cheating God by having sex but exercising his personal will to make sure it had no risk of fertility. Sex for pleasure but not keeping the Levirite law, in this specific case.

continued

 

[kentuckyliz]

Holy Mary, Mother of my Lord…change the Hail Mary to Elizabeth’s words in the scriptures, if you are suffering scrupulosity about “Mother of God.” But really, talk to your priest friend about Mother of God—Theotokos—it is Christological and defeats a heresy about Christ.

Orthodoxy isn’t an answer if you have scrupulosity about Mary—you will be surrounded by icons of multiple images of her, and in the Divine Liturgy, you will sing a prayer repeatedly praising the Theotokos, higher than all the seraphim and cherubim, may she be praised for endless ages unto ages. You’ll just be going deeper into it. However, since Orthodoxy claims its liturgy is ancient and unchanged, then it is historical evidence of the practice of Marian devotion from the earliest times.

In Mass, what, there’s one or two mentions of her name in the EP2? (Asking for her and all the saints’ intercession) and maybe once more in the Confiteor, if you use that penitential rite. It seems to be uncommon nowadays.

Spirit-filled Christian to Spirit-filled Christian: you take great risks in utterly dividing Mary and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit flies to the soul where Mary is loved, because He loves her too! I am Marian and charismatic and love it when these two movements started really coming together. There are four events to meditate upon: The Annunciation, when the Holy Spirit overshadows Mary and she conceives of the Holy Spirit—the infinite God Up There becomes the little, vulnerable Emmanuel—God With Us—with all kinds of New Creation and Ark meanings layered in there; the Visitation, when the Holy Spirit fills Elizabeth only after Mary speaks to her(!) and both praise and prophesy; the Presentation, where the Holy Spirit causes Simeon and Anna to prophesy upon seeing Joseph and Mary and the eight day old Christ child; and Pentecost!!! Mary and the Apostles and the disciples were gathered together praying together for nine days (novena!), and the promised Holy Spirit came upon them. You know the story! It is hard for us to truly perceive the greatness and rarity of the pre-Pentecost outpourings and overshadowings and filling-up of the Holy Spirit, because the Father and Jesus Christ hadn’t sent the Holy Spirit to all flesh yet! So we take it for granted, since we’ve always had the Spirit. It’s normal to us. It wasn’t normal back then. So, in prayer, getting ready, Mary was there, but probably not Elizabeth—she was old when she bore the Forerunner 33 years earlier—and definitely not Anna or Simeon, because they were elderly at Jesus’ infancy–so Mary was the ONLY person present who had personally previously experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit. “You guys, you’re gonna love this!” Whoosh!

I love Mary’s ecstatic, Spirit-filled, prophetic prayer, the Magnificat; I love Elizabeth’s Spirit-filled and –inspired praises of Mary; the Pentecostal, charismatic power of the Visitation that even makes fetuses dance in the womb—this is so beautiful! How can you be charismatic and ignore the greatness of this? My life scripture is from the Visitation—my name is Elizabeth Mary—Luke 1:41b: “Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” Hallelooooooooooojah!!! [OK, holy roller time out.]

I’m back. There’s a great statue of Mary that you would love, on the campus of the Franciscan University of Steubenville. It’s Mary in Spirit-filled ecstasy of praise, Mary of the Magnificat; she is looking up to the heavens, hands lifted up in the orans posture; joy on her face; like any pentecostal or charismatic. I wish they’d make little statues of that! It’s an image that you and I can really appreciate.

You call your mother on the phone because she’s alive on this earth. My mom died, so I envy you this opportunity. Don’t ever take it for granted. My mother had her human faults and sometimes I still find myself licking my wounds, fifteen years after her death, my goodness!; in the perfect motherhood of Mary, all my mother-issues are healed. In Jesus Christ’s name, in the power of the Holy Spirit, I can forgive (70 x 7 for each little wound) and love my mother more now than ever before (and be sorrowful for the ways I wounded and hurt her). Bringing Mary into my relationship with my (deceased) mother transformed that relationship…years after mom’s death.

continued

 

[kentuckyliz]

OK, next meditation: call to mind That Mel Gibson Movie. Jesus, dying on the Cross, pushes on his feet to lift himself up on his nailed feet, his whole body weight digging into that little point, sending shooting pain through his Sacred Body, so He can take a breath and tell the Beloved Disciple: “Behold Your Mother!” --His bequest in His last will and testament. It isn’t “finished” without this! The same Beloved Disciple is gifted with the drawing aside of the veil of Heaven in the apokalypsos (Apocalypse-Revelation) and sees a vision in Rev 12, of the Woman who is the mother of the child who will rule all the nations with an iron rod; the Beast makes war on the REST OF HER OFFSPRING: all those who keep the commandments and bear witness to JESUS CHRIST. (Rev. 12 should give you the biblical basis to consider Our Lady of Guadalupe and St. Michael the Archangel. Optional private devotions, but check it out.)

Are you a Beloved Disciple? Are you a Christian? God gave you a Mother!

You don’t ever have to ask for her intercession; the Wedding Feast at Cana shows that she is moved with compassion for those in need. The wedding party doesn’t ask her to fix it. She takes the initiative and intercedes with them for her Son. That is the biblical pattern of her intercession!

Something I saw in the Scriptures recently: The Trinity was revealed first to Mary.

We can’t know the Trinity by reason alone, nor the Hebrew Scriptures alone. It required a special revelation from God.

When was it first revealed? Annunciation—to Mary. Read all about it in Luke 1.

My issue with dissing Mary: Is Mary just God’s Dixie Cup? A disposable vessel? It makes me cringe when people treat her with less respect than their own mothers. This attitude usually goes with a certain spiritual misogyny and hypermasculinity. It leads to bending to the spirit of the world and the law of sin in the flesh by accepting artificial contraception, because the most important value is sex free of consequences available at all times for men ruled by lust. There is also a repudiation of the legitimacy of the vocation of “celibate single for the Lord in the world,” because that removes sexual access to the women called to this vocation. That’s why when there’s religious or political movements against the Church that break out into violence, they rape the nuns first. Every woman is required to marry and breed and concern herself with pleasing her husband, instead of being devoted full time to the Lord. (I have met others who have this vocation, who became Catholic, because that’s the only place that acknowledges their vocation at all! Everyone else crosses out 1 Cor 7. Grab the black marker.)

If your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, how can you deny this is also true for Mary?! If not more so! The Spirit dwelling within you was only made possible by the Spirit overshadowing her. With her consent! Fiat voluntas tua! (God doesn’t rape.)

Is love a zero-sum game? If I love this person more, it means there’s less love for this other person? No. The more you love, the more you grow in love, with the capacity to love more deeply, more people, and it just grows and grows. Like the heart of the Grinch under the magnifying glass. Untransformed, unsaved, wordly love may be finite; but transformed, saved, Godly love grows with no upper limits.

No upper limits? What?! There is an absolute minimum on the negative commandments (thou shalt not’s), but there is no upper limit on the positive commandments (thou shalt’s). Thou shalt love thy God with all thy heart mind and strength, and love thy neighbor as thyself. Honor (Hb glorify) thy father and mother. There’s no upper limits to love!

Loving Mary made me love Abba Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit ever more!

Still, ignore her if you wish. Why not pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy? That’s just Jesus and the Father, invoking in an intercessory way, mercy for the whole world.

continued

 

[kentuckyliz]

Are any of your children daughters? Learn to love Mary while they are young, and as they grow, teach them to love her too. It will be the best protection for their virginity and chastity when they are teenagers and young adults; it will inoculate them against what the world says is the best for women (radical feminism, promiscuity, careers, forgoing marriage, cohabitation, childlessness–list all that you think is warped womanhood). It will show them the best example of discipleship as a Christian woman.

If you take away Mary, and you leave it to them to find other Bible women to emulate, they might start really diggin’ the forgiven prostitute. I can do what feels good now and count on God’s forgiveness later when I repent. “Lord, make me chaste, but not yet.” –St. Augustine (who kept a concubine before his conversion). Don’t minimize that risk. I see all kinds of “once saved always saved therefore it doesn’t matter what you do” thinking among fornicating Christian young men and women, ignoring Paul’s thunderous admonition: fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven! Charismatics can pray themselves into thinking that God blesses their desire to sin. (“I’ll pray about it.”)

As a loving father, Mary could be the best insurance policy you have to protect your daughters. Also, to teach your sons to respect women and guard their virginity and chastity—the girls’ and their own! Also, go to Joseph—St. Joseph—as a model of righteous Christian manhood for your sons, and for your daughters too, so they have the right ideal in mind when they’re looking for a husband.

One last point: conscience. Is it the lawgiver? Here’s a Bible study for you. Look up all variations of “they did what was right in their own eyes.” Following their conscience, right? OK, so, does the Bible say this is a good thing or a bad thing? If you are too lazy or busy to search the Scriptures, I’ll give you two guesses.

Pardon my ramblings. God bless you on your journey.

 

[faenaweaves]

There are things you must believe and follow. Those are in the Catechism, and what you probably learned in RCIA.

Then there are add-ons, if you will. Devotions that some lean on perhaps too heavily - in time I"m sure you’ll find a gaggle of people who are apparition junkies as well. These well meaning people seem to place marian apparitions before all other forms of information gathering about God and the Church.

Things like this you are free to dismiss in your mind. Private revelations are meant for those who recieve them, and need not be followed by anyone else. The devil can also use these deceits to bend minds.

If yo’ure not comfortable with marian devotions - then ignore them, and pray for those that may have allowed these to become perhaps too prominant in their lives.

Nancy

 

[minkymurph]

I agree with Allweather. regarding your child ignore the stares. People should be absorbed in the Mass not what others are doing. A toddler doesn’t know they are at Mass or understand the significance. I am fortunate enough that my Parish has a cry chapel but I still come out sweating, my kids are three and five and by the time it comes to the sign of peace I’m ready to strangle them instead of shaking hands! If there are a lot of other kids in the cry chapel it’s nothing short of a miracle if I manage to hear the Mass but I’m there and so are they and it’s what’s called being a parent.

As far as the other things you mention go, this is doubt. Nothing more and nothing less. Many who come into the Catholic faith experience the same thing so you are not alone. What you will find is the more you are drawn into the Catholic faith the more understanding you will have. Be patient with yourself. Thomas doubted and many others. Like yourself, I always had a soft spot for Catholicism. I was brought up JW and I had real difficulty in coming to a realization that Christ was God. Now it has been revealed to me I can’t get enough of Trinitarian theology. I would have had qualms that are similar to yours and we often have these qualms because are old beliefs are ingrained into us. I’m stuck with a problem with organized religion because of past experiences. I remember my Parish Priest telling me the Catholic church does not believe in instant conversion. Conversion happens all your life, it never really stops. Devotion to Mary can be understood more the closer we become to Mary which is by praying to her. the first time I prayed the rosary I found it a very powerful prayer. There is a scripture somewhere which says taste and see that the Lord is good. The more you try things and look into things you may find your perception will change. In the meantime remember another thing my Parish Priest told me. You will not live happily ever after. there will be days it will be a good day to be a Catholic and there will be days it won’t.

 

[PyroAlchemist]

After 13 years as a convert I am in a “valley” also but I have a sincere love for the Catholic Church and am hoping that my own journey will improve. I am not bitter just a bit disillusioned. But the point of my reply is not to whine. It is to open discussing on a question in the original post that has not been addressed. How about the “divorce clause” in Matthew 5:32 ? This is the only New Testament verse that is substantially different in Catholic and Protestant Bibles as far as I am aware.

Here from the King James Version: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Here from The New American Bible: But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.