What is Black Liberation Theology?

[planter654]

Thanks for the link on NYT article on Black Liberation Theology. Although most of the black preachers mentioned came from protestant denominations, it is clear to Catholics that liberation theology as a generic theology has been debunked many times by Vatican and no less than JPII. Preachings based solely on slaves being liberated Moses-vs-Pharaoh style run the risk of being myopic and contextually challenged.
From the pulpit view, there is a tendency to exploit it for personal or other motives that have nothing to do with salvation of the soul.

I found this on the web–google–" Israelite Heritage" and “Hebrews of Africa” very interesting.

You do know that Pharoah was a black rich Egyption, King Tut his tomb just discovered, King Tut was a Black King-- Egyption. King Tut— was Pharoah grandfather.

There were rich Black people and poor black people. Poor where Hebrews slaves to the rich—Moses was born by a Hebrew woman. Very interesting.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Is Black Liberation Theology as prevalent in black churches as is reported? I don’t think it can be.

I found this on google—“Israelite Heritage” and " Hebrews of Africa" very interesting.

Why is there no Black brothers and sisters in our Catholic Churches? Neither in Canada or do I find in the United States, why? I grow up in a community with black brotheres and sisters and they have all this little churches all through out the community? I found a book and it answered this reason I had and why.

Their slave owners brought them to church way back in History. But were "shamed’ looked down upon and could only sit way in the back of the Church, making them feel like not part of the celebration or involment. Then later as time went on it got worst and were moved up stairs in the choir not to be seen, then after that, they put curtains in front of them!!! They work on the plantations. That is the truth my great mother remembers when she was little from her great grandmother and was friends etc.

So as generations went on they build their own little churches–to celebrate and be part of the whole celebration—that explains it all now! It was a book of “Black History” written in our very own community. I grow up with them.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Yes really, and again you are flatly wrong. You need to read beyond one Pope if you would understand the theology. There was a recent meeting of liberation theologians wherein the libertion theology of Appalachian liberation theology was discussed. This theology has been ongoing for some time.

You worry a lot it seems about your “stuff” being taken by others either through taxes or by power grabs. I’d suggest the government is the one you should fear, not poor theologians who are trying to better the lives of people who’s land and livehood has been taken from them. (And again,that has to do with Latin America) I don’t know as feminist theology is interested in land much.

Good for you thank you and God Bless you and all!

 

[planter654]

Okay Vern, been there done that. you need to reread the first paragraph. That sets out very clearly that not all liberation theologies are incorrect, only those that adopt marxist philosophy as a means a praxis. You need to move up to more modern documents as well, especially those written by Ratzinger. This is not even an official document, much less dogma, but in any case you are misreading as usual.

But good boy, you are now citing sources!

Found on web—“Israelite Heritage” and “Hebrews of Africa”.

You do know that Pharoh was a rich black man. King Tut’s tomb was found and King Tut is black and the grandfather of Pharoh!

Just like today there are the rich and the poor.

Moses was Born of a poor “black Hebrew slave woman”. Moses was the grandson of Pharoh, Moses was black because Pharoah was Black and Moses could not pass as Pharoah grandson if he was white, do you think?

Ethopia is mention over 2,500 times in the Old Testatment!

The 12 “TRIBES” of Israel—also “CHIEF” Priest

Go and watch History Channels paintings on mountains, walls, hebrew writings much much more I have found–drawings and travels craved on mountains etc.

That is why also names are important they all have meaning–Yeweh, etc.

God Bless---- we are all different---- but we are all equal! To all of God’s children.

 

[planter654]

Really?

Liberation theology seeks to use the power of the state to force change in property and other relationships. It is simply old Marxism in new skins.

This is what then-Cardinal Ratzinger said about it:

Go to the web I found this --“Israelite Heritage” and “Hebrews of Africa” very interesting. Another thing I found “Who wrote the Bible” go down on site paper very interesting there is a “VIDEO”

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Really?

Liberation theology seeks to use the power of the state to force change in property and other relationships. It is simply old Marxism in new skins.

This is what then-Cardinal Ratzinger said about it:

I am so happy we have this topic finally.

You mentioned grain of truth.

Go on the web–google— look up " Israelite Heritage" is one and

another topic one is “Hebrews of Africa” also on google. I found

this also on the web on google " Who Wrote the Bible" is a video

scroll down the title page–interesting . Hope it helps

God Bless yes we are all different but all important and equal God loves us all!

 

[planter654]

What a mish-mash of disconnected ideas!

Liberation theology is as Cardinal Ratzinger said it was.

Have you read Obama’s two books? Look on the web google " Israelite Heritage and another one to look up " Hebrews of Africa" I found interesting. I am a Catholic. Also I found on google " Who Wrote the Bible" they have a video just scroll down.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Spiritmeadow,

The point is that liberation theology in general has marxist tendencies,even if they are not plainly stated or obvious. Liberation theology tends to exalt ethnic communities,in the spirit of “We are the People of God”,above the authority of the Church. It is a theology which encourages a self-justifying attitude among communities and it is entirely focused upon fighting for social and economic change. As far as liberation theologians are concerned,fighting for social and economic justice is the essence of the gospel. They take certain passages from the Bible and papal documents,and documents from Vatican 2,and interpret them as invitations to social protest and activism,sometimes revolution. Liberation theology tells the people what they want to hear: “This is what you deserve. God wills that you take it for yourselves.” It is all about “the movement”,which has a life and a will of its own apart from the Church.

Cesar Chavez used to use images of Mary of Guadalupe as a rallying point for his migrant workers’ movement,as if the movement had Mary’s blessing.
people to

I found this on the web on google “Israelite Heritage” and another on google site “Hebrews of Africa” also found on google " Who Wrote the Bible" scroll down they have a videoon this one–interesting.

You do know that Pharoh was a rich Black King and the grandson of King Tut who’s tomb was found, he was Black!

so if Moses passed as Pharoh’s grandson Moses was black born of a black Hebrew slave woman, you did know that did you not?

Hebrews were the black slaves to the rich Black Pharoh. God heard the crying prayers of those who were held under bondage of the rich.

Proof cravings on mountains and in tombs. History channel found all over and unearth lost cities thousands of years ago.

Isarel is a “nation of people” not a country. God gave to the Israelites the countries like Dan was given this part, etc. Look at the maths in the Bible Israel is bigger than now— then “12 Tribes” who spread all over the earth.

The 12 “TRIBES” of Israel —“CHIEF” priest–Ethiopa is mention over 2,500 times in the Old Testament. Ethiopa is in Africa. That is also why names are hard to pronounce in The Old Testaments names of African people have strong meaning. Yeweh–God Yah means God also!

God changed the name of Jacob–to “Israel” 12 “Tribes” of Israel

there were rich blacks and poor blacks just like us rich-- poor.

[Edited]

God Bless–we are all different–but all equal–all God’s children!

 

[planter654]

Again, simply not true. women’s liberation theology nowhere advocates violence as a means to achieve it’s ends. You are referring to a particular methodology adopted in some latin american countries to fight against dictatorships. Not all liberation theology is directed against political institutions at all. Some are directed toward church power and authority and teaching. Nowhere is there evidence that marxist methods are favored or used.

I watch on the History channel about a certain tribe in Africa it was all about how this tribe continued down through History still living with nothing but the earth around them to provide. It was so interesting to see their customs and their beliefs.

For instance they “scarifice animals” to give thanks to their God, also they sprinkle the blood also, but I forget their meaning for doing this. Animals on scarificed open fires. they do this still when there is a wedding among their tribe members. The wedding is a feast that last for several weeks before the wedding is completed.

Do you know “booths”–Like the feast day names of God–The Feast of Booths–booths are made of of dried branches formed in rounded small shelters than they dwell, in interesting! don’t you think? There was so many other customs they do and it really think and compare it, I was so surprised I could not believe it. Just food for thought.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I am so happy this topic came up!
God Bless–love to all

 

[anthony022071]

planter654:

I found this on the web on google “Israelite Heritage” and another on google site “Hebrews of Africa” also found on google " Who Wrote the Bible" scroll down they have a videoon this one–interesting.

The Hebrews were enslaved in Africa. They were not of Africa.

You do know that Pharoh was a rich Black King and the grandson of King Tut who’s tomb was found, he was Black!

Which pharaoh are you talking about? There was only one short-lived dynasty of black royalty in ancient Egypt. The mummified corpse of the pharaoh of Moses’ time was discovered a few years ago. He had red hair.

so if Moses passed as Pharoh’s grandson Moses was black born of a black Hebrew slave woman, you did know that did you not?

He didn’t pass as pharaoh’s grandson. The Hebrews did not identify themselves with black Africans. Neither did the Egyptians.

Hebrews were the black slaves to the rich Black Pharoh. God heard the crying prayers of those who were held under bondage of the rich.

The pharaohs of that time were not black.

The 12 “TRIBES” of Israel —“CHIEF” priest–Ethiopa is mention over 2,500 times in the Old Testament.

No,Ethiopia is not mentioned that many times. And when Ethiopia is mentioned,it is usually derogatory.

[Edited]

 

[vern_humphrey]

I repeat: Liberation Theology is simply Marxism with a phony veneer of Christianity. Black Liberation Theology adds racism, and mixes in a bizarre interpretation of “history.”

 

[rpp]

Those who claim that Liberation Theology is not a rehashed form of Communism would find themselves disagreeing with the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Pope John Paul II and the Cardinal Ratzinger in the 1984 document.

From An Instruction on Certain Aspect of the Theology of Liberation

Full document.

Introduction
…
The present Instruction has a much more limited and precise purpose: to draw the attention of pastors, theologians, and all the faithful to the deviations, and risks of deviation, damaging to the faith and to Christian living, that are brought about by certain forms of liberation theology which use, in an insufficiently critical manner, concepts borrowed from various currents of Marxist thought.

…

Chapter IX
…
10. But the “theologies of liberation”, which reserve credit for restoring to a place of honor the great texts of the prophets and of the Gospel in defense of the poor, go on to a disastrous confusion between the ‘poor’ of the Scripture and the ‘proletariat’ of Marx. In this way they pervert the Christian meaning of the poor, and they transform the fight for the rights of the poor into a class fight within the ideological perspective of the class struggle. For them the ‘Church of the poor’ signifies the Church of the class which has become aware of the requirements of the revolutionary struggle as a step toward liberation and which celebrates this liberation in its liturgy.
…
13. Building on such a conception of the Church of the People, a critique of the very structures of the Church is developed. It is not simply the case of fraternal correction of pastors of the Church whose behavior does not reflect the evangelical spirit of service and is linked to old-fashioned signs of authority which scandalize the poor. It has to do with a challenge to the ‘sacramental and hierarchical structure’ of the Church, which was willed by the Lord Himself. There is a denunciation of members of the hierarchy and the magisterium as objective representatives of the ruling class which has to be opposed. Theologically, this position means that ministers take their origin from the people who therefore designate ministers of their own choice in accord with the needs of their historic revolutionary mission.

Please note that this is a magisterial document and is therefore authoritative.

 

[Contarini]

Those who claim that Liberation Theology is not a rehashed form of Communism would find themselves disagreeing with the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Pope John Paul II and the Cardinal Ratzinger in the 1984 document.

From An Instruction on Certain Aspect of the Theology of Liberation

Full document.

Please note that this is a magisterial document and is therefore authoritative.

And please note in return that it carefully specifies “certain forms” of liberation theology!

As an Anglican (and hence not recognizing magisterial authority in the same way you do), I nonetheless find this to be a balanced and reasonable critique, like everything Ratzinger/Benedict writes.

Edwin

 

[rpp]

In another document, the core tenents of Liberation Theology, namely revolution, are stated to be incorrect and, in fact, described as a “myth”.

This is from Instruction on Christian Freedom, released in 1986.

Full document here.

1. Situations of grave injustice require the courage to make far-reaching reforms and to suppress unjustifiable privileges. But those who discredit the path of reform and favour the myth of revolution not only foster the illusion that the abolition of an evil situation is in itself sufficient to create a more humane society; they also encourage the setting up of totalitarian regimes.(117) The fight against injustice is meaningless unless it is waged with a view to establishing a new social and political order in conformity with the demands of justice. Justice must already mark each stage of the establishment of this new order. There is a morality of means.

Like the other document I quoted, this is from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, prepared by the then Cardinal Ratzinger and approved by Pope John Paul II. It is magisterial and authoritative.

 

[rpp]

And please note in return that it carefully specifies “certain forms” of liberation theology!

As an Anglican (and hence not recognizing magisterial authority in the same way you do), I nonetheless find this to be a balanced and reasonable critique, like everything Ratzinger/Benedict writes.

Edwin

That is correct.

If someone wants to define Liberation Theology as a movement to help ensure that governments enact laws to help the poor, well that is certainly not inconsistent with Church teachings. The problems cones when, as part of LT, various forms of the distribution of assets and wealth are promoted that deny people ownership of property. The Church very much supports the idea that people can own property, including land. Furthermore, the Church does not teach that such things can be confiscated by the State.

I also agree with your kind assessment of of the Current Pope’s writing and communication style. And to it, I would “charitable and kind”.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I repeat: Liberation Theology is simply Marxism with a phony veneer of Christianity. Black Liberation Theology adds racism, and mixes in a bizarre interpretation of “history.”

You can repeat it all you want, you are still wrong. You claim to have read Ratzinger’s quite old explanation and even he does not say that. You have some issue with LT, but until you actually learn something about it rather than simply regurgitate a few lines from a vatican document that you are not even understanding, it falls on deaf ears.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Those who claim that Liberation Theology is not a rehashed form of Communism would find themselves disagreeing with the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Pope John Paul II and the Cardinal Ratzinger in the 1984 document.

From An Instruction on Certain Aspect of the Theology of Liberation

Full document.

Please note that this is a magisterial document and is therefore authoritative.

First of all the document does not proport to address all LT’s but only a certain type of LT. This is pointed out in the first ;paragraph. On the contrary, I have cited to this document many many times and been told by those of the ultra right that it is not dogma and need not be agreed with. You guys cannot have it both ways.

And I repeat, if it is so terrible it would have been banned. It has not, and a fairly large number of theologians work in the area, all with the blessings of the Vatican.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You can repeat it all you want, you are still wrong. You claim to have read Ratzinger’s quite old explanation and even he does not say that. You have some issue with LT, but until you actually learn something about it rather than simply regurgitate a few lines from a vatican document that you are not even understanding, it falls on deaf ears.

I am right, and you have produced nothing to refute what I have said.

For the left, black liberation theology makes for close to a perfect faith. It is a political creed larded with religion. It serves not to reconcile and unite blacks with the larger cultural, but to keep them separate. Here, again, The Washington Post reports that “He [Wright] translated the Bible into lessons about…the misguided pursuit of ‘middle-classness.’”

 

[rpp]

I am right, and you have produced nothing to refute what I have said.

Yes, Vern. You are correct. The Church has suspended priests in Latin America for promoting Liberation Theolody. There is a famous photo of Pope John Paul wagging his finger at a couple of priests during a Papal Visit to Latin or South America (can’t remember which) for supporting Liberation Theology.

Some people like to use that “certain aspects”. Well of course it is only certain aspects that have been condemned. Just like only certain aspect of Arianism were condemned. Arianism taught that Jesus had a physical body. That was not condemned. The fact that it also taught that He was not fully Divine was the aspect that was condemned.

Liberation Theology seeks to use Catholic moral teaching as an excuse to have government confiscate property and redistribute it. That is Marxism and against Catholic Teachings. Claims to the contrary, despite what the author may say, demonstrates a lack of understand of what Liberation Theology teaches, are ignoring what the Catholic Church actually teaches about it, or that a person rejects what the Church really teaches.