What is Black Liberation Theology?

[Neil_Anthony]

Here’s something by the Pope about Liberation Theology:

"Liberation theology is a phenomenon with an extraordinary number of layers. There is a whole spectrum from radically marxist positions, on the one hand, to the efforts which are being made within the framework of a correct and ecclesial theology, on the other hand, a theology which stresses the responsibility which Christians necessarily hear for the poor and oppressed, such as we see in the documents of the Latin American Bishops’ Conference (CELAM) from Medellin to Puebla. In what follows, the concept of liberation theology will be understood in a narrower sense: it will refer only to those theologies which, in one way or another, have embraced the marxist fundamental option. "

Here, the Pope says that Liberation Theology is found in the documents of the Catholic Church, from Medellin to Puebla. So some Liberation Theology must be good stuff.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Calling Anything one disagrees with as “MARXIST” is Radical Right, and Untruthful. Typical Big Money Only RNC. Am Conservative, but honest Catholic. Character assasination is Not Proper, Or Catholic. Vivat Jesu, Not self

Leveling Personal Accusations, Particularly With Each Word Capitalized Is Hardly Christian, Now Is It?

And liberation theology is Marxist. Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) pointed that out, now didn’t he?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Brother Vern, you do not seem to understand lot of Basics. Our Lord did not give us “The Word”. Nowhere is the Bible mentioned in the Bible. Nor does God ever say he is giving us writings.

And this has what to do with Black Liberation Theology?

Secondly, theology is not changing and new ideas. Basic right, wrong has been known since we lived in caves, comunanlly sharing. Basic theology is very unchanging. Morality is unchanging, despite New WAve attempts to rationalize theft, drugs, self as most mportant.

Which would tell us that this new Liberation Theology, and especially the virulent and racist Black Liberation Theology is false, now wouldn’t it?

Thirdly, Your main focus is on your property and money, suggesting every Tax is forceful Marxist attempt to grab your wealth.

When you do a mind reading act, it is considered courteous to wear a turban and gaze into a crystal ball.

Ever heard * From those to whom much is given, much is expected ? * Or Noblesse Oblige? Ever considered helping others, instead of yourself only? **
Straight out of the “pro-choice” playbook – always pretend that others don’t give to charity, don’t help those who need help, and so on.

 

[Sailka]

Why do you say that “revolution” is “the core tenets” (by my count that’s only one tenet!) of liberation theology? On the basis of which works of liberation theology do you conclude this? Or are you just relying on second-hand accounts by opponents?

I agree that the influence of Marxism has been pernicious for liberation theology. I do not endorse or embrace it wholesale. But I don’t reject it wholesale either. I listen to it and learn from it.

In my reading, the core tenet of liberation theology is that you cannot separate the salvation brought by Christ from social and political liberation. The one is not irrelevant to the other. Just how social and political liberation is related to the work of Christ is something on which liberation theologians disagree with each other.

Edwin

** AMEN! Well Said! Right ON! Very Catholic, also. **

 

[vern_humphrey]

** AMEN! Well Said! Right ON! Very Catholic, also. **

Yet Jesus specifically denied that He came to bring political reform.

 

[Sailka]

Leveling Personal Accusations, Particularly With Each Word Capitalized Is Hardly Christian, Now Is It?

And liberation theology is Marxist. Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) pointed that out, now didn’t he?

No Personal Attacks. Only answering your outside the Church reasoning, postings. And Cardinal Ratzinger did Not label everything Liberation Theolgy as Marxist. Is Your invention, misrepresentation. To Wit: Neil_Anthony
Senior Member
Book Club Member Join Date: August 10, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,454

Re: What is Black Liberation Theology?

---

Here’s something by the Pope about Liberation Theology:

"Liberation theology is a phenomenon with an extraordinary number of layers. There is a whole spectrum from radically marxist positions, on the one hand, to the efforts which are being made within the framework of a correct and ecclesial theology, on the other hand, a theology which stresses the responsibility which Christians necessarily hear for the poor and oppressed, such as we see in the documents of the Latin American Bishops’ Conference (CELAM) from Medellin to Puebla. In what follows, the concept of liberation theology will be understood in a narrower sense: it will refer only to those theologies which, in one way or another, have embraced the marxist fundamental option. "

Here, the Pope says that Liberation Theology is found in the documents of the Catholic Church, from Medellin to Puebla. So some Liberation Theology must be good stuff.

---

The Jesus of the Fourth Gospel and the Jesus of the Synoptics is one and the same: the true “historical” Jesus. - Pope Benedict XVI

 

[vern_humphrey]

No Personal Attacks. Only answering your outside the Church reasoning,

Drop the formatting and spelling approach.

Let me ask you a simple question. The Reverent Jeremiah Wright is the most visible proponent of Black Liberation Theology in America. Do you agree with him when he says, “G** D*** America?”

 

[Poppa150]

No Personal Attacks. Only answering your outside the Church reasoning, postings. And Cardinal Ratzinger did Not label everything Liberation Theolgy as Marxist. Is Your invention, misrepresentation. To Wit: Neil_Anthony
Senior Member
Book Club Member Join Date: August 10, 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,454

Re: What is Black Liberation Theology?

---

Here’s something by the Pope about Liberation Theology:

"Liberation theology is a phenomenon with an extraordinary number of layers. There is a whole spectrum from radically marxist positions, on the one hand, to the efforts which are being made within the framework of a correct and ecclesial theology, on the other hand, a theology which stresses the responsibility which Christians necessarily hear for the poor and oppressed, such as we see in the documents of the Latin American Bishops’ Conference (CELAM) from Medellin to Puebla. In what follows, the concept of liberation theology will be understood in a narrower sense: it will refer only to those theologies which, in one way or another, have embraced the marxist fundamental option. "

Here, the Pope says that Liberation Theology is found in the documents of the Catholic Church, from Medellin to Puebla. So some Liberation Theology must be good stuff.

---

The Jesus of the Fourth Gospel and the Jesus of the Synoptics is one and the same: the true “historical” Jesus. - Pope Benedict XVI

True enough. Priests and nuns have embraced a sort of “Liberation Theology” in Latin America which seeks to promote activism on behalf of the poor outside the walls of the church. They have gotten in trouble and many have been killed. One can argue the rightness or wrongness of their strategy, but they most assuredly HAVE NOT peddled the malarky offered by the Cones and Wrights.

 

[Sailka]

Drop the formatting and spelling approach.

Let me ask you a simple question. The Reverent Jeremiah Wright is the most visible proponent of Black Liberation Theology in America. Do you agree with him when he says, “G** D*** America?”

Wrong Again, Brother Vern! First, Rev Wright is not present tense. His Politically Attack by Association use by RNC/EtAl statement was years ago. Secondly, Obama was not there, and did not agree with it. Thirdly, Rev Wright was speaking for effectU. Speaking Currently, Vern, Do you agree with Bush/Gonzales/Chaney Initiating and Authorizing torture of quote terrorists suspects unquote. Aware that Torture Does not work, has been banned in Europe since 1863 Geneva accords, and vastly increases Number of Terrorists, and is International War Crime, USA signed off on, in 1960’s? Aware, Vern, that CIA and USA Intelligence Reported that 90% of those tortured knew nothing about terrorist groups, or individuals? Was Reported Last Fall. So are you For Torture of Suspects? And it Was Mr Cove who Is the Name, and founder of Black Liberation Theology. Google the subject. Rev Wright Obviously meant that God would D… any Chosen Very Evil doings by any nation. He was Obviously speaking of the Overt Evils done by the USA sometimes in the Past, usually done for Business, Get rich quick purposes. Like ‘settling’ Indian reservations, to grab the gold, or farm lands, etc. Agree with those policies? Unjustifiable Wrongs. Vivat Jesu. Tony

 

[vern_humphrey]

Wrong Again, Brother Vern!

First, Rev Wright is not present tense.

What does that mean in English?

His Politically Attack by Association use by RNC/EtAl statement was years ago.

What does that mean in English?

Secondly, Obama was not there, and did not agree with it.

What’s that got to do with this thread?

Thirdly, Rev Wright was speaking for effect

He said what he said – are you authorized to say he didn’t mean what he said? Are you his official spokesman?

Speaking Currently, Vern, Do you agree with Bush/Gonzales/Chaney Initiating and Authorizing torture of quote terrorists suspects unquote.

No, I don’t – but what’s that got to do with this thread?

 

[Sailka]

What does that mean in English?

What does that mean in English?

What’s that got to do with this thread?

He said what he said – are you authorized to say he didn’t mean what he said? Are you his official spokesman?

No, I don’t – but what’s that got to do with this thread?

Means Rev Wright said it Years Ago! Am using “Association” to illustrate the Bad because of connection Character Assasination of RNC/Republican Campaigns, Decades. Would You like to be Known Nationally by the Worst thing You ever said, Lifetime? One worst sentence is You 100%??? Is way RNC/Republican Candidates Have been elected, Repeatedly. Decades. And I find major Policy, Campaign Statements by Both Democratic Candidates. Plan to Get Major National Debate going about Both, with key Magazine Articles. Don’t know what “speaking for Effect” Is? Look it up. Remember Bush saying in 2000 that Global Warrming is unproven Theory? (And aware that sea levels Would rise 23 Feet When all Greenland Ice Melts? 200 Feet if/when Antactica Melts down?) Vivat Jesu Tony

 

[jc-servant]

Vern,

You can stop repeating the same post. We all get it. We may not all agree with everything that you have said, but we heard you. Merely repeating the same post does not provide any additional support for your position. You don’t like Jeremiah Wright and you condemn him strongly for the one statement that you have repeated. You have been acknowledged.

You appear to be asserting that this one man is the sole fruit necessary from which to judge this theology and that his existence should cause everyone here to stop having intelligent discussions on the subject and just condemn, condemn, condemn. If we applied your method to Christianity in general, then Judas could be used as the sole “fruit” from which to condemn our whole faith without further proof. Judas did a lot worse than use offensive language to make a point in a sermon.

Now, if you would like to choose some verifiable details of the actual topic (the theology) that is the title of this thread and give some detailed, verifiable, factual support for why you find the true details of Black LT unacceptable, then please do so. Merely repeating things about Marxist LT is not going to cut it since anyone who has done some scholarly research on the topic knows the difference between the two.

BTW, philosophy involves the exploration of ideas. It is not about being “right.” If you want to assert that you are “right,” then philosophy may not be an enjoyable part of the forum for you. Someone pointing out the lack of research or support for your point is not an ad hominem attack. It is a legitimate part of having a discussion of this type.

 

[Sailka]

Amen! Vivat Jesu! Tony:thumbsup:

 

[vern_humphrey]

Means Rev Wright said it Years Ago! Am using “Association” to illustrate the Bad because of connection Character Assasination of RNC/Republican Campaigns, Decades. Would You like to be Known Nationally by the Worst thing You ever said, Lifetime? One worst sentence is You 100%??? Is way RNC/Republican Candidates Have been elected, Repeatedly. Decades. And I find major Policy, Campaign Statements by Both Democratic Candidates. Plan to Get Major National Debate going about Both, with key Magazine Articles. Don’t know what “speaking for Effect” Is? Look it up. Remember Bush saying in 2000 that Global Warrming is unproven Theory? (And aware that sea levels Would rise 23 Feet When all Greenland Ice Melts? 200 Feet if/when Antactica Melts down?) Vivat Jesu Tony

What in the world has all that got to do with this thread?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern,

You can stop repeating the same post. We all get it. We may not all agree with everything that you have said, but we heard you. Merely repeating the same post does not provide any additional support for your position. You don’t like Jeremiah Wright and you condemn him strongly for the one statement that you have repeated. You have been acknowledged.

You are wrong. You have decided you can make my argument for me. I have a right to make my arguments myself.

If you wish to defend Black Liberation Theology, please feel free to do so – because no one has tried that yet on this thread.

All we have are broad assertions about liberation theology in general, and no specifics.

I have given specifics – and I stand by them. By its fruit, you shall know it.

 

[Malia_Harris]

No, except in the sense that they would say that the religion of the powerful is idolatry! For instance, the religion of ancient Egypt affirmed the hierarchy of Egyptian society. Pharaohs were seen as living gods. In that sense there is a “god of the powerful” who is a false god.

Apparently it has been dogmatically declared by the Magisterium of Americanism that adherence to black liberation theology (or even having belonged to a church whose pastor adhered to it) is a vile heresy punishable by excommunication from the ranks of those-who-may-be-president. But I do not think that the Catholic Church has taken a similar stance!

Edwin

 

[Malia_Harris]

I truely beleive that there is no Black, White, Red, nor yellow theology. God has no color and no physical body. We must base our theology on the truth and God’s teaching.When man began to seperate theology then discrimination comes, in heat develop then the final will be trouble for all forms or color of theology.
I think that this black theology is a means of getting at someone who has done wrong.Man has to sometimes put aside the evils of yesterday and move forward. On Christ dying moment on the cross He said “Father forgive them, for they know not what they have done”

 

[Contarini]

Yet Jesus specifically denied that He came to bring political reform.

Where? (I would not necessarily disagree with this statement, depending on what you mean by it. That’s why I’m asking you for a specific reference so we can look at what it means instead of arguing about a vague, blanket assertion.)

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I truely beleive that there is no Black, White, Red, nor yellow theology. God has no color and no physical body. We must base our theology on the truth and God’s teaching.When man began to seperate theology then discrimination comes, in heat develop then the final will be trouble for all forms or color of theology.
I think that this black theology is a means of getting at someone who has done wrong.Man has to sometimes put aside the evils of yesterday and move forward. On Christ dying moment on the cross He said “Father forgive them, for they know not what they have done”

But here’s the problem. People like Cone would argue (and Wright explicitly argued in his interview with Hannity which Fox broadcasts incessantly as part of their propaganda campaign) that what most of us think of as “standard” Christianity actually has a color. It is white Christianity, but we don’t call it that precisely because its dominance is so unquestioned.

I have problems with this approach as well. But I don’t think we can just sweep it aside by saying that color doesn’t matter. Our cultural presuppositions do affect the way we articulate the faith. And for centuries what most of us know as Christianity has been shaped largely by European culture. That has real effects which can’t simply be swept under the carpet.

That is why, I think, Catholicity is so important. As Christians we have to have a “clearing-house” for various cultural traditions–a central vantage point from which these traditions are evaluated. Irenaeus described the church of Rome as such a clearing-house in the late second century. For historical and cultural reasons, Rome has not always functioned effectively in this role. But we don’t have a better alternative.

Edwin

 

[vern_humphrey]

Where? (I would not necessarily disagree with this statement, depending on what you mean by it. That’s why I’m asking you for a specific reference so we can look at what it means instead of arguing about a vague, blanket assertion.)

Edwin

He was asked when He was going to restore the Jewish kingdom
and refused to reply. He was asked if it was lawful to pay the tax and He said, “Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar’s, and to God what it God’s.” Before Pilate, He said, “My Kingdom is not of this world.”

You will not find, anywhere in Scripture or Tradition a statement saying Christ meant to establish a physical, temporal government.