what is the REAL reason why protestants reject mary?

[carol_marie]

My problem is not with Mary, or who she was or what she did or do not do.

It’s about who am I going to be devoted to, Mary or Jesus?

I think it subtracts from Jesus to go through Mary instead of him to God.

Does it subtract from Jesus when you ask your friend to pray for you?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

**

The OP asked the question from the standpoint of the early reformers giving Mary proper honor. This is not the protestant case in the present. The question was directed to anyone who cared to answer. So why did the ealry reformers not say what protestants say now? Is it a different interpretation of scripture?

**

-D

## Calvin’s position is pretty much what a lot of Protestants seem to hold to:

Luke 1. 26-33

On Luke 1. 34-38

Commentary on Matthew, Mark, Luke - Volume 1

Commentary on Matthew, Mark, Luke - Volume 2

Commentary on Matthew, Mark, Luke - Volume 3

John 2.1-11

John 19:25-27

**There are also a few remarks in the Institutes - but not much, at: **

BOOK II CHAPTER 13 SECTION 3
BOOK II CHAPTER 13 SECTION 4
BOOK II CHAPTER 14 SECTION 5

CHAPTER 13. - CHRIST CLOTHED WITH THE TRUE SUBSTANCE OF HUMAN NATURE.
**reckons up the progenitors not of Mary, but of Joseph, … that Mary was of the same family. Luke goes still … as he was begotten of Mary, was procreated of her **

CHAPTER 10. - THE RESEMBLANCE BETWEEN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW.
**231 “Beata Virgo.” French, “la Vierge Marie;”—the Virgin Mary. and **

CHAPTER 14. - HOW TWO NATURES CONSTITUTE THE PERSON OF THE MEDIATOR.
**to Mary: "That holy thing which shall be born of **

CHAPTER 14. - IN THE CREATION OF THE WORLD, AND ALL THINGS IN IT, THE TRUE GOD DISTINGUISHED BY…

 

[Darrel]

There are some bad protestant churches, Ill give you that. As far as Im concerned, if a church is teaching sound biblical principle from the bible, they are good to go.

Hi

Can you quote anything from the scripture authority that supports them being “good to go” if they have sound bible principal opinion?

-D

 

[FillTheVoid]

Why wouldn’t they be “good to go” if they are teaching the truth of the Bible?

You don’t need an authority figure to ok you to spread the word of Jesus do you?

Didn’t Jesus say something about where 3 of you gather in a place I will be amongst you?

 

[Sandi]

Speaking as a Protestant, I can tell you that in my case, I don’t reject Mary at all. I don’t venerate her as Roman Catholics do and I prefer to go directly to my Lord and Saviour without any go-betweens. And that’s perfectly acceptable Christian practice.

I should point out that it is insulting that someone characterize my beliefs as my heart "being hardened by God’’ . I respect Catholic beliefs and I would expect the same respect in return…at least I would have, until I came across this message board and have been shocked at some of the punitive and downright nasty attitudes toward Protestant fellow-Christians I’ve found here.

Is this how Jesus wants you to regard your brothers and sisters? Or is it your ugly little secret that you don’t really consider Protestants as your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ but you just don’t want to admit it publicly?

 

[Darrel]

Why wouldn’t they be “good to go” if they are teaching the truth of the Bible?

Because interpretation is to broad. People are out drinking rattle snake venom and trying to get married to 12 women. Anything goes when it’s “good to go.” We need central interpretation to avoid all maner of false teaching. All of this division confuses people and drives them away from Christ. People don’t know who to beleive deep down. They usualy just find a church to fit there sin/comfort level.

-D

 

[tequilamac]

Speaking as a Protestant, I can tell you that in my case, I don’t reject Mary at all. I don’t venerate her as Roman Catholics do and I prefer to go directly to my Lord and Saviour without any go-betweens. And that’s perfectly acceptable Christian practice.

I should point out that it is insulting that someone characterize my beliefs as my heart "being hardened by God’’ . I respect Catholic beliefs and I would expect the same respect in return…at least I would have, until I came across this message board and have been shocked at some of the punitive and downright nasty attitudes toward Protestant fellow-Christians I’ve found here.

Is this how Jesus wants you to regard your brothers and sisters? Or is it your ugly little secret that you don’t really consider Protestants as your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ but you just don’t want to admit it publicly?

Well we know you are our brother and sister in Christ but also that you are not. Let me give an example:

My husband has a sister that is simply vicious toward him, her other siblings and his parents. Absolutely despises us all. Now he knows she is his sister- it is just that he no longer thinks of her that way as she has rejected all good in her family as a positive evil. She turned from Catholicism to JW and absolutely despises and shuns us. So you see, you can KNOW legally and morally someone is your sister in Christ and yet have a really really hard time thinking that way about them.

the Virgin Mary is someone especially important to Catholics. She is our mother. So when Protestants bash her or bash the catholics that love her, we KNOW they are our brothers and sisters, we just have a really hard time thinking that way.

sorry if you are offended.

 

[Sandi]

I AM offended if you are accusing me of bashing the Virgin Mary by not regarding her the way Catholics do. I’ve already stated my feelings, which are that I respect her and acknowledge her place as the mother of Jesus, but I prefer to direct my devotion directly to her Divine Son.

How does that constitute bashing?

 

[Sabda]

Sandi,
I’m sorry you feel so offended. You will have to understand that Catholics have a tendency to become very passionate about Christ’s Mother. This board is actually one of the best religion boards that I have been on. Believe me, there are many out there that are far worse!

I’m guessing that when someone ask you to pray for them you tell them no they need to go directly to God? After all if your are praying for someone else you are their “go-between”.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi

Can you quote anything from the scripture authority that supports them being “good to go” if they have sound bible principal opinion?

-D

Hi,
I can but I dont want to derail this thread and there are so many other threads on this already. I would refer you to one of those. Under Sola Scriptura

 

[exiled]

Does anyone else find Galatians 4:21-31 compelling for Mary’s role in our lives?
We all know that there are many layers to Scripture, and when Paul speaks of the difference between Hagar and Sarah I think he is also speaking of Eve and Mary, as well as Sinai and Jerusalem, as well as Israel vs. Christianity (Catholicism). Could Paul have avoided using Mary’s name because of persecutions? It is clearly stated that we are children of the “freeborn woman”, and I think it is a reference to sin, hence the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Zooey]

Perhaps because they were still influenced by the church they they were coming out of and it’s teachings, who knows? But the Reformers weren’t infallible even if I do agree with what they did in protesting and leaving the CC. We can respect them but untimatley, our authority on the subject of Mary is Scripture, not the Reformers. Of course, I’m speaking of those of us who believe God’s word is the ultimate and final authority.

And maybe, the reformers were just plain:yup: right about Mary, & those who have followed after them are wrong.

God is free to do something new but it should be obvious that whatever it might be can’t contradict the Scriptures or He’d be contradicting Himself since He is the ultimate Author of said Scriptures. There needs to be a set standard to measure things by and for Protestants that standard is the word of God, not the word of the CC or its pope and magisterum, with all due respect.

Yes, I’m aware of the Catholic view. But they’re dead physically and alive in heaven. We’re separated for now by physical death. There’s nothing in Scripture that leads me to believe I should seek communication with them.

Golly, what Bible are you reading? 'Cause mine has the saints watching us & cheering us on…Sounds like they’re pretty aware to me!!
So why should I ignore them?? Isn’t that–forgive me, but–isn’t that a little rude???

Jesus never rebuked his mother to do so would be breaking a commandment we know Jesus never did such a thing to think so in my book is a heresy. So please dont distort scripture.

The woman in revelation is very much Mary. Most people are in agreement that it was her.

My problem is not with Mary, or who she was or what she did or do not do.

It’s about who am I going to be devoted to, Mary or Jesus?

I think it subtracts from Jesus to go through Mary instead of him to God.

Oh, dear, no!! That’s NOT how it works!! Everything that honors Mary, every word said in her praise, is said about her Son.
You can’t love Mary too much! If you could, that would mean that Jesus wasn’t, after all, sinless, & the whole lot of us would still be :crying: “dead in trespasses and sins”!! Because He always loved and honored His mom, and I figure, if it was good enough for Jesus, it is:yup: surely good enough for me!!

 

[4given]

Golly, what Bible are you reading? 'Cause mine has the saints watching us & cheering us on…Sounds like they’re pretty aware to me!!
So why should I ignore them?? Isn’t that–forgive me, but–isn’t that a little rude???

Guess I just don’t see it the same way you…or rather…your church tells you to see it. So what if God allows them to witness some of the things going on here, there’s still no undue attention gvien to them and nothing to indicate we should be paying a lot of attention to them. Catholics want to include so many others in the forefront that Christ gets pushed to the rear.

 

[4given]

This is kind of an ironic statement, seeing as how Protestants wouldn’t even have an NT canon to use in making trite references to “God’s word” without the authority of the magisterium. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

No offense, but I don’t share your belief that the NT canon came form your magisterium. God’s word doesn’t need your church to give it the authority that it already has in and of itself. Does God need permission from your church for His word to have authority? I don’t think so.

 

[tequilamac]

No offense, but I don’t share your belief that the NT canon came form your magisterium. God’s word doesn’t need your church to give it the authority that it already has in and of itself. Does God need permission from your church for His word to have authority? I don’t think so.

That’s ridiculous. The Canon was closed in 400 something. Luther came along in the 1500’s. God does not need permission from the Church to have authority. At the same time, there is a certain expectation that people will use common sense. What did people use for authority in the intervening 1100 years?

 

[tequilamac]

I AM offended if you are accusing me of bashing the Virgin Mary by not regarding her the way Catholics do. I’ve already stated my feelings, which are that I respect her and acknowledge her place as the mother of Jesus, but I prefer to direct my devotion directly to her Divine Son.

How does that constitute bashing?

How do you respect her? She is the Mother of your God so you say but she deserves what? Less attention than your own mother? A Christmas card at Christmas? A mention on mother’s day? How very Hallmark.

 

[carol_marie]

Catholics want to include so many others in the forefront that Christ gets pushed to the rear.

This is NOT true. As a former Evangelical, I can tell you that Christ is spoken of more in the Catholic Church than any other Church I’ve attended. He is NEVER pushed to the rear. If you don’t believe me, come to a Catholic mass next Sunday. You will see first hand the importance we place on our Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Zooey]

Guess I just don’t see it the same way you…or rather…your church tells you to see it.

Now, it is true that :yup: John Wesley prayed the rosary every day of his adult life…but still, I am:tiphat: Just Your Friendly Neighborhood Methodist at CAF!!

So what if God allows them to witness some of the things going on here, there’s still no undue attention gvien to them and nothing to indicate we should be paying a lot of attention to them. Catholics want to include so many others in the forefront that Christ gets pushed to the rear.

How could that happen? A saint is someone who is in Heaven, in the very presence of the Lord & Saviour. Whatever prayers come their way, they pass on to Jesus Christ. Just as when you make a prayer request to your friends in faith, & they present your petitions to Him also. “The fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much”.

No offense, but I don’t share your belief that the NT canon came form your magisterium. God’s word doesn’t need your church to give it the authority that it already has in and of itself. Does God need permission from your church for His word to have authority? I don’t think so.

I don’t think, in respect, that you truly understand the history of Christendom…All Christians were Catholic Christians until the 16th century. The Bible was compiled before then, ergo: The Catholic Church gave us all the Bible!! Praise God for His provision!! Every time you take out your Bible, give thanks for all those many, many Catholics of yesteryear who worked through the night by the flickering light of a bit of burning oil, straining their eyes to the point of blindness, so that you & I might have the Bible…
And a Bible that was compiled under the watchful eye of those who loved & served God, not any random bunch of folks either…True believers in our Lord! What a blessing each & every one of them was. How great their:getholy: reward must be in Heaven!!!

God bless.

 

[Darrel]

Hi,
I can but I dont want to derail this thread and there are so many other threads on this already. I would refer you to one of those. Under Sola Scriptura

Fair enough,

When it comes to Mary I understand Protestant concerns. Some of the issue comes down to presentation. I find it pretty normal for people who are not Catholic to freak out about Mary since Catholics will just say flat out it’s ok to pray to Mary.

Catholics all know that Mary is not God and that we don’t worship Mary. We don’t go to mass and recieve Mary in the blessed sacrament. We don’t beleive Mary created the universe and will judge the living and dead. We are told by our authority that this intercession is permissable.

We are also told that the communion of Saints is allowed in general. Here is where I see the hypocracy with protestants on this Mary issue and a million others from sola scriptura to the Pope.

You could look at the thousands of other Protestant Churches and find just as many things that you could consider broken. So why is the Catholic Church the common enemy of the protestant churches?

To a person in the congregational church a strict fundamentalist is a fruitcake. Why not focus on that or on the people who are Southern Baptist who tend to treat women like it’s 2000 years ago and smack there kids around too much.

Or the mormons or the guy from the 700 club who makes us all look bad. The bottom line is that Protestants should be fighting with each other all day long. So why do they find it so allowable to be in total division over some of the very fundamentals of there individual churches?

The reason is because division is at the very heart of protestantism. Unity is at the very heart of the Catholic Church. The CC seeks unity with Protestants along with Mary and the Saints. I was flipping through the channels last night and came upon this show called Miami Ink which is about a tattoo parlor. This protestant pastor showed up to have a big blue Jesus head tattoo done on his leg.

He looked like a Hot Topic kid and had those giant hoop ear lobe stretching ear rings in his ears. He was talking to the tattoo guy about his church for wayward kids. Then they showed a clip of a Church service and everyone was jumping around like it was a heavy metal concert or something. Now there is something protestants should be upset about. Protestants can’t set a standard for anything since they are centered in division so nobody can voice oposition. This is the reason protestants go after Catholics about Mary. It’s not so much about Mary as it is about authority verses division. You could find things far worse then Catholics do right in some protestant Churches.

The protestant churches refuse all authority with the exception all (one trillion) possible interpretations of each scripture. Sticking with the one interpretation of scripture authorized by Christ in the CC including Marion devotion is a common sense choice. I did my twenty years in the tatto parlor and finally found the truth with Gods help.

-D

 

[Damascus]

Why is it that quantity of verses one can find in the Bible on Mary is an indication that she is of little import? How about all the places she was in the Bible?

1)the annunciation
2)visitation
3)Joseph’s dream
4)jorney to Bethlehem
5)Jesus’ birth (2 accounts)
6)Visit of the Shepards
7) presentation in the Temple
8)Visit of Magi
9)flight into Eygpt , and return from
10)Jesus in the Temple at age 12
11)wedding at Cana
12)mentioned by the people of Nazereth (Matt 13:55)
13)mentioned by the woman in the crowd in Luke 11:27-8
14)by the people in the synagouge in John 6:42
15) by paul in Galations 4:4
16) AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS in John 19:25-27
17) with the disciples in the upper room Acts 1:14

---

OT prophecies that tell of the Mother of the Messiah

Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5:3

Tell me again why somehow this is all dismissed as not being enough verses or Scripture mentions?

I dont think Protestants reject Mary per say, I think they see it as a hinderance to their walk with Jesus. I never hear them call her the Mother of God. Which is an example of how strong their fear is, that they dont even realize how this is incompatible with who they claim Jesus to be.

I also dont understand how they reconcile the Trinity by the method they use of accepting unclear Ot and Nt passages that require one to admit it is not EXPLICIT in scripture and yet they require all other things to be EXPLICIT in scripture…

Oh well.

unwittingly as well, some that claim Jesus was rebuking Mary, are unwittingly condemning Jesus of violating the 4th commandment in the Torah.

That is serious Blasphemy IMHO.

Jesus did no such thing.