Z
- Status
P
ProveIt312
Guest
So I assume you’re referring to Jesus? Do you know anything about how the Bible and it’s stories came about, how most early Christians did NOT believe in his divinity, how the stories weren’t written until over a century after his supposed death and how there isn’t a single secular, objective account that he ever even existed? Oh, but because it says so in a very flawed and self-contradictory bronze-age book, I should believe it?
Such pride stemming from such credulity.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
What prophecy? There’s never been a single confirmed occurrence.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
1 - Yes, and the cause of the universe is the big bang. I won’t go into detail, but all the information is readily available. And to plug god into every gap in knowledge is just plain lazy.
2 - Even if he existed “outside the universe” (whatever the hell that b.s. means), those instances where he “extends himself” into it and interacts would be observable.
3 - It’s absolutely correct. Can you name something other than energy or matter in the universe? Can one be affected with anything other than either of those? It’s a perfectly valid and accurate assertion.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
You’re obviously a moron, so I’ll try to hold your hand so you don’t burn out any more brain cells on thought.
Read a book on evolution to answer your question on sight and hearing, as well as mind, intellect and freewill.
The odds are not only that there are plenty of other planets out there with life on it, but science is actively searching for it. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it’s found in my lifetime. A more reasonable question would be why did a god create more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches 13.5 billion years ago, and wait…then create earth 4.5 billion years ago, and wait…then create countless millions of species, 99.9% of which went extinct (some design!!), only to create anatomically modern humans about 100,000 years ago. Yeah, THAT makes sense.
Finally, what caused god? You can’t argue from the need for a “cause” and then claim god didn’t need one. If god didn’t need a cause, a creator and didn’t need to evolve, why are things like modern cosmology and physics so hard to grasp? Apparently it’s a combination of the lack of personal attention and ego stroking that reality offers combined with the fact you’ve obviously done zero research on any questions you have.
I’d recommend extending your reading into the “non-fiction” section so you don’t look so silly in the future.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
Why don’t you believe in other things with equal evidence as god? Unicorns, leprechauns, Santa Clause and - just in time! - the Easter Bunny? Why not worship Zeus, or Thor, or Krishna or Horus? What makes your god more valid or real than any other? Don’t get resentful because some people take the time to understand how things really are rather than lazily settle one some bronze age mythology that’s laughable at it’s best and absolutely vile at it’s worst.
The fact you people wrap up such a despicable book in love and hope is the absolute height of absurdity; have any of you actually read the thing?!? Rape, murder, genocide, infanticide, incest, slavery and vicarious redemption - and it’s the “good book”? Not quite.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
Oh, I understand it quite well thanks. I also know the history behind it and the previous religions it plagiarized. It’s man-made fiction from the armpit of the world, representative of the ignorant sheepherders the stories come from. I also enjoy reality, science and am thankful for the heathens that progressed humanity in spite of religions continued ability to impede that progress. Faith makes a virtue of fuzzy thinking; truth doesn’t require faith.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
Then what you describe is simply philosophical bronze-age literature and nothing more. I’m fine with that. But even the order of creation is wrong, reflecting the writers (ignorant men) lack of knowledge - so what would indicate it’s at all divine?
The book oozes fiction - much of it malignant and offensive to any decent person’s sense’s of morality and ethics.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
There’s an abundance of evidence to support a personal god’s non-existence, yet absolutely ZERO to support the existence of one. The conclusion, just like unicorns and leprechauns, is that even though we can’t PROVE they don’t exist, the reasonable conclusion is that they don’t. Heck, you’re likely an atheist when it comes to Zeus or Horus, right? There’s only one god we disagree on, yet if you held yours to the same standard as all the others you’d come to the same conclusion.
P
ProveIt312
Guest
I agree; quite the imperfect and ignorant book from such a supposedly perfect and omnipotent being.
manygift1spirit
New member
The moral argument.
About six months after studying it, I saw a panel discussion between a theist and an atheist. I was noting the latter’s passion and resolve, when it dawned on me that the very attempt to make arguments as such like the ones being made meant that the atheist at some level was presupposing what he was trying to deny. To this day I am still amazed at this.
I later had the same insight when listening to the rant of some celebrity atheist du jour about all the ills committed in the name of God [sic]. While to the extent that he represented history fairly, it was indeed cringeworthy, I nonetheless chuckled when appreciating the implications that what is ‘ill’ or not can even be defined.
Chesterton apparently pointed similar things out on several occasions.
About six months after studying it, I saw a panel discussion between a theist and an atheist. I was noting the latter’s passion and resolve, when it dawned on me that the very attempt to make arguments as such like the ones being made meant that the atheist at some level was presupposing what he was trying to deny. To this day I am still amazed at this.
I later had the same insight when listening to the rant of some celebrity atheist du jour about all the ills committed in the name of God [sic]. While to the extent that he represented history fairly, it was indeed cringeworthy, I nonetheless chuckled when appreciating the implications that what is ‘ill’ or not can even be defined.
Chesterton apparently pointed similar things out on several occasions.
M
MeekandHumble
Guest
I’m not here to argue, but you sound like someone who doesn’t truly understand God or Christianity, period. It’s funny (not really) how people say things like “you dumb Christians and so on…” and never truly know what Christianity is.
I hate when people mix Christianity and paganism. People fail to realize that half of these “ignorant” beliefs didn’t come from Christianity. I guess things like evolution and pangea make all the sense in the world. Okay, millions of years ago…nothing became something. No wait, how about reincarnation, or how about we don’t know how we got here or why we are here, but we are here
U
usemelord
Guest
Just got back from Holy Thursday Mass, and must say it was an incredible, indescribable experience. Unfortunately, I got on the computer and saw there was a response to this thread. Not one, but multiple (mostly hostile) responses from our good friend ProveIt312. With each response I sensed increasing anger, even rage, basically labeling everyone who doesn’t agree with him a “moron.” Well, isn’t that special?? What words come to mind to describe ProveIt312? Pompous? Arrogant?? Myopic? Pseudo-intellectual? From what source does all this venom flow? Civility and kindness, respect and graciousness, are not in this person’s lexicon. Well, we can only pray for him/her which, I suspect, will cause an even greater eruption of poisonous, verbal fumes. After all, ProveIt312 would strenuously argue, prayer cannot be proven to do anything. My, my, my!! Someone desperately needs an attitude adjustment. Dale Carnegie, where are you when we need you? Oh, by the way, I do, I do, I do believe in Santa Claus. The jury is out on the Easter Bunny, however.
C
Cristian_B
Guest
It does not even say when is going to happen.
What do you think about the prophecies about Babylon? It was on a fertile ground, with a river; it had several kilometers of perimeter; it was the capital of a golden empire, and yet God said it will not be inhabited again. That was a bold statement but yet it has been fulfilled. How do you explain that? Jerusalem has been rebuilt more than 20 times and Babylon was on a better ground that Jerusalem, yet never rebuilt. Do you find that logical?
No. I want you to tell me. Make your own argument.
T
Thing
Guest
Alexamenos fidelis Graffiti - 200ad
Interpretation
The inscription is accepted by the vast majority of scholars to be a mocking depiction of a Christian. Both the portrayal of Jesus as having an asses head and the depiction of him being crucified would have been considered insulting by contemporary Roman society. Crucifixion continued to be used as an execution method for the worst criminals until its abolition by the emperor Constantine in the fourth century, and the impact of seeing a figure on a cross could be compared with the impact today of portraying a man with a hangman’s noose around his neck, or seated in an electric chair.[19]
The accusation that Christians practiced onolatry (donkey-worship) seems to have been common at the time. Tertullian, writing in the late second or early third century, reports that Christians, along with Jews, were accused of worshipping a deity with the head of an ***. He also mentions an apostate Jew who carried around Carthage a caricature of a Christian with Asses ears and hooves, labeled Deus Christianorum Onocoetes (“the God of the Christians begotten of an ***”).[20]
[edit] “Alexamenos fidelis”
In the next chamber, another inscription in a different hand reads in Latin Alexamenos fidelis, meaning “Alexamenos is faithful” or “Alexamenos the faithful”.[26] This has been suggested as a riposte, by an unknown party, to the mockery of Alexamenos as represented in the graffito.[27]
J
jdwood983
Guest
Why do you require proof, Thomas? Is not the fact that this Faith has lasted ~2000 years with all that it has had to face (paganism, cults, Mohammedan, etc) proof enough of its true Divinity (which has always been accepted as truth by all Christians from the Apostles to the present Church, though it was not verbalized until ~200AD)?
N
neophyte
Guest
Z
Zatzat
Guest
Your response consists of nothing more than little laughing emoticons and a meaningless statement.
And you liken our belief to fairy tales!
I perceive your very reply as tantamount to waving a white flag.
Z
Zatzat
Guest
Babylon was a vibrant city until about 650 AD.
Yes, Gods great prophecy…took thousands of years for people to choose to abandon the city, no different than tens of thousands of abandoned cities all over the world…and you give credit to God for such an amazing prophecy!
People abandon a dessert city and this is a great prophecy!?
T
TomD123
Guest
First, the quote does not refer to Jesus, so before you criticize the Bible and what is in it, read it! If you do not even know what the story is that I was referring to, how can you comment on it. Atheists like to sound smart talking about what Christians have in their Bible when the atheists do not really know! Secondly, where is the proof that the Christians wrote the Bible over a century after Jesus’ death. The early Christians obviously believed Jesus was important because they were willing to preach even under persecution of the Romans.
- Status