What REALLY happened in the Garden! Women the weaker of the two sexes? (All in fun)

[Lost_Wanderer]

My words were taken out of context! MichaelHowling has been charging since the beginning of this that Adam had to protect Eve!! My point was that she didn’t need him to protect her and could have denied Satan on her own! If anyone is the misogynist it is him. My statement to him was that IF couldn’t protect herself and needed him (as MichaelHowling said) then she should have asked for help from Adam. When you quote someone out of context falsehoods prevail!

Don’t charge people for reading out of context unless you have proven yourself a careful reader… which you haven’t.

Lemme make a similar illustration to the one in the OP. Suppose a woman like Eve was facing off against a giant ogre. I am a traveling wizard and I see this.

Believe it or not, my natural instinct would be to help and it wouldn’t matter what gender the person was.

On the other hand… supposed I zap that ogre and all of a sudden it turns out the lady is your typical Joan-of-Archetype and is now yelling at me to let her ‘slay the foul beast.’

Do I keep on zapping because ‘I’m a man and I can’t let a woman do all the work’? Actually, that’s when I’d step back.

Moral of the story? It’s as I said: When people (man or woman) say they don’t want my help, they will not get it. Ask and ye shall receive.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

They even made a new smartphone app called “The Boyfriend Trainer” that celebrates violence against men. Imagine if they made one the other way around? No one should be celebrating violence against anyone, at least Christians shouldn’t!

Again, my problem with you is that you sound like you’re making this a black and white issue. Boyfriend Trainer? I actually find that amusing. Has it ever occurred to you that some men behave in ways that warrant such products?

I myself, were I more physically superior (or at least had arcane powers ), would be very happy to help my sister train her boyfriend sometimes. (Good Lord… the things that boy says… )

 

[Domiy]

Ironman is the name of a popular movie.

If you replace the ‘man’ with ‘woman’, it turns into a command

And I’m pretty surprised that so many women are posting in this thread, do they make docking stations for laptops in the kitchen nowadays?

Haha, no seriously, I get a bad rap all the time for suggesting that women should be housewivs and men should be the workers. It’s just the way I was bought up, and the way my family and all my relatives’ family worked for the last hundred years or so. I don’t find anything inferior in women being cookers and cleaners, it’s just as important and difficult as the mans job of bringing home bread. I just think each gender is better suited to a particular role than the other. It’s almost as if God created women to be housewives, staying at home to nurture the child and so on…I mean, He did give them a portable food dispenser that they have wherever they go, it’s a beautiful thing, women shouldn’t abuse it methinks.

The Bible does kind of give the idea that women are below men, or rather that men are supposed to be the superior sex. Why is it that we call God Father or refer to Him as a male? I heard, theologically, it’s because His children are supposed to be subject to Him and His desires, so He is the dominant figure, therefore we apply the same standard for mortals. If He wanted women to be dominant and men to be the shadows, He would present Himself and His name in the female tense. That’s just my thought, especially seeing as Jesus himself was a male . Although Paul makes a good point in the Bible, somehwere in Corinthians, when he says that womens should be subject to their husbands, and husbands subject to their wives; they no longer exert control over their own bodies, but give their bodies as satisfactions to their partners. This is the beauty of marriage; a man and a woman join together as one. They enjoy pleasure by eachothers bodies, and thus become one body, if one stumbles or cries, they both do so. Women shouldn’t deny their husbands and husbands definitely shouldn’t deny their wives.

I just think God has a very specific purpose for women, and it differs to that of men. The Virgin Mary is a perfect example of that; she occupies the more feminine side of divinity and Christ’s purpose. Sure, women can’t be priests, but I’m sure deep down men also get furious at the fact that they can’t bear a child or feed it from their breasts; God created women to carry that burden for the sake of life, and they should be honored.

It goes on and on haha.

 

[silentfactor80]

Again, my problem with you is that you sound like you’re making this a black and white issue. Boyfriend Trainer? I actually find that amusing. Has it ever occurred to you that some men behave in ways that warrant such products?

I myself, were I more physically superior (or at least had arcane powers ), would be very happy to help my sister train her boyfriend sometimes. (Good Lord… the things that boy says… )

So given that there are some girls out there that “warrant such products” you would be ok with a “The Girlfriend Trainer?” Well I don’t think Apple would leave that up for long.

So I guess your sister is another perfect angel who does no wrong? The problem with men is they worship women as if they are God. Well, you can take that up with Christ.

 

[silentfactor80]

Don’t charge people for reading out of context unless you have proven yourself a careful reader… which you haven’t.

Lemme make a similar illustration to the one in the OP. Suppose a woman like Eve was facing off against a giant ogre. I am a traveling wizard and I see this.

Believe it or not, my natural instinct would be to help and it wouldn’t matter what gender the person was.

On the other hand… supposed I zap that ogre and all of a sudden it turns out the lady is your typical Joan-of-Archetype and is now yelling at me to let her ‘slay the foul beast.’

Do I keep on zapping because ‘I’m a man and I can’t let a woman do all the work’? Actually, that’s when I’d step back.

Moral of the story? It’s as I said: When people (man or woman) say they don’t want my help, they will not get it. Ask and ye shall receive.

My charge is justified and I read quite carefully. MichaelHowlings posts were all nonsense about Adam being responsible for Eve’s sin. As grammy clarified ALL must live in free submission to their Creator! That means Eve and Eve alone was responsible for her sin! Adam’s sin was that he disobeyed God. He didn’t have to bash the snakes head or stop Eve from eating. At the same time a wife does not feed her husband bad food! As a caregiver she clearly failed in that role by MichaelHowlings standards!

 

[silentfactor80]

Ironman is the name of a popular movie.

If you replace the ‘man’ with ‘woman’, it turns into a command

And I’m pretty surprised that so many women are posting in this thread, do they make docking stations for laptops in the kitchen nowadays?

Haha, no seriously, I get a bad rap all the time for suggesting that women should be housewivs and men should be the workers. It’s just the way I was bought up, and the way my family and all my relatives’ family worked for the last hundred years or so. I don’t find anything inferior in women being cookers and cleaners, it’s just as important and difficult as the mans job of bringing home bread. I just think each gender is better suited to a particular role than the other. It’s almost as if God created women to be housewives, staying at home to nurture the child and so on…I mean, He did give them a portable food dispenser that they have wherever they go, it’s a beautiful thing, women shouldn’t abuse it methinks.

The Bible does kind of give the idea that women are below men, or rather that men are supposed to be the superior sex. Why is it that we call God Father or refer to Him as a male? I heard, theologically, it’s because His children are supposed to be subject to Him and His desires, so He is the dominant figure, therefore we apply the same standard for mortals. If He wanted women to be dominant and men to be the shadows, He would present Himself and His name in the female tense. That’s just my thought, especially seeing as Jesus himself was a male . Although Paul makes a good point in the Bible, somehwere in Corinthians, when he says that womens should be subject to their husbands, and husbands subject to their wives; they no longer exert control over their own bodies, but give their bodies as satisfactions to their partners. This is the beauty of marriage; a man and a woman join together as one. They enjoy pleasure by eachothers bodies, and thus become one body, if one stumbles or cries, they both do so. Women shouldn’t deny their husbands and husbands definitely shouldn’t deny their wives.

I just think God has a very specific purpose for women, and it differs to that of men. The Virgin Mary is a perfect example of that; she occupies the more feminine side of divinity and Christ’s purpose. Sure, women can’t be priests, but I’m sure deep down men also get furious at the fact that they can’t bear a child or feed it from their breasts; God created women to carry that burden for the sake of life, and they should be honored.

It goes on and on haha.

The Bible doesn’t really say men are superior. It just gives men the responsibility of headship which is to say leadership. Of coarse these days a man is useless flap of skin by societies standards. Yes, women should be honored but so should men. They should share the honor but society doesn’t really advocate for any meaningful respect for men. We just get a list of our faults but good luck trying to give women a list of theirs. (probably gonna be called a misogynist for saying this)

 

[Nimzovik]

This thread was all fun with things said ‘tongue in the cheek’ and then we have your misogynic views.

Oh no!! the “M” word! I wondered how long it would be before someone dragged out that old Chestnut!

 

[simple_soul]

I think you are confusing vulnerability with “being in control.”

If you say so.

My words were taken out of context! MichaelHowling has been charging since the beginning of this that Adam had to protect Eve!! My point was that she didn’t need him to protect her and could have denied Satan on her own! If anyone is the misogynist it is him. My statement to him was that IF couldn’t protect herself and needed him (as MichaelHowling said) then she should have asked for help from Adam. When you quote someone out of context falsehoods prevail!

And that is exactly what Adam did! She didn’t ask for help so he just sat there and watched! Thanks for agreeing with me!

*I keep thinking about what you keep saying about how Eve should have asked for help if she knew she could not handle the serpent and all I can say is…
speaking from my experience from my rape I thank God there were men who made sure I moved as far away from my rapist as I could and they also ensured he never came after me. I did not know what had just happened to me was rape or that I could even call it rape and I know, looking back on it now, that my rapist wanted this control over me for more than just a one time thing. If it had not been for this gentleman stepping into my life and protecting from my rapist and just waited for me to ask for his help then I know I would be stuck in a very controlling and abusive relationship right now. So I thank God for those who were not like Adam and did not just choose to just stand by and wait for me to ask for help in fighting of my demons and stepped up to the plate and helped me even though I had no clue what it was I needed help or protection from. This starts with Jesus Christ, a few gentlemen who stepped into my life to not only protect me from my rapist but also from the actions of my father and this thank you also goes out to those whom I have meat here at CAF and the Priests and Deacons at my church. They all knew I needed help and protection when I did not even have a clue about what demons I was trying to fight and did not even know I was fighting them and they stepped into my life to fight those demons with me and for me and I never even asked them too…they just did…I will always be eternally grateful for them defending me even though I did no ask them to…

In reading your posts you have renewed the gratefulness I have for them for not sitting back and waiting for me to ask for help and tried helping me and protecting me regardless…thank you for that…*

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So given that there are some girls out there that “warrant such products” you would be ok with a “The Girlfriend Trainer?” Well I don’t think Apple would leave that up for long.

Given that the likes of Gossip Girl and other popular media titles are fine with depicting female bosses as manipulative, social climbing witches… I would say yes.

So I guess your sister is another perfect angel who does no wrong? The problem with men is they worship women as if they are God. Well, you can take that up with Christ.

Angel? My sister? GYAHAHAHAHAH!!! (A vampire private eye would be a closer comparison. )

That doesn’t mean I don’t deal with other guys who are worse… or girls. Is this really a gender thing for ya?

My charge is justified and I read quite carefully. MichaelHowlings posts were all nonsense about Adam being responsible for Eve’s sin. As grammy clarified ALL must live in free submission to their Creator! That means Eve and Eve alone was responsible for her sin! Adam’s sin was that he disobeyed God. He didn’t have to bash the snakes head or stop Eve from eating.

Adam’s incompetence holds him accountable at least in part to the whole of the Great Offense. Please, dispense with your black-white thinking and look to the bigger picture. When you’re all part of a bad heist that just deprived people of their hard earnings, you all share the blame when you are caught. There is no point to pointing fingers when all hands are dirty. It’s best you all start cleaning them.

The Bible doesn’t really say men are superior. It just gives men the responsibility of headship which is to say leadership. Of coarse these days a man is useless flap of skin by societies standards.

Are you kidding me? I’ve been bullied by both men AND women. I was not called sexist for standing up against either. Do I have to be racist to think Kanye West is a stooge? Do I have to be a homophobe to think Perez Hilton is a total pig?

And for the record, I would think the Bible is a little inaccurate about the leadership capabilities of women (and one more reason why I’m not Sola Scripturist). There are many women out there whom I would gladly follow and I’ve seen plenty of men who are indeed useless flaps of skin… of course the same can be said the other way around too.

So… why is this even a gender thing again?

 

[Domiy]

Ephesians 5:22-33
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”** 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.**

I think that sums up what I saw saying previously; a man is expected to be the head of the wife, but in return he needs to love and care for her like he does himself, so the wife is kind of given a social role in not having to work or worry about the family or the well-being, the husband takes full responsibility in return for the wives obedience.

 

[severus68]

How was what I said misogynic? I think many of the things women like Sandra Fluke and Kathleen Sebellious advocate for are BAD for women. Many men want to do what is best for women but the same women keep telling us shut up about issues like birth control and abortion as if these issues don’t affect men. Are you one of “those Christians” that thinks pumping women up with carcinogenic hormones and hacking babies up is “women’s rights?” Why is calling out female pride such a problem for you people? Newsflash: Women have egos too! That doesn’t make one calling it out a misogynist.

We don’t hear public outcry calling women misandrists when they complain about the male ego!

Please stop being personal and enough with your ‘you people’. I am all for fairness. I am not for persistently putting down women. There are many good men, there are many good women. A few men would like women to be under their authority os they can tell them what to say and do. That are the only “good” women to these few men. No, its not about abortion so enough with that card.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Many of you seem quite ok with dumping on the male here while the female prances about with no responsibility for anything.

Be sure to check out my story. I blamed it all on Eve, and made Adam the victim.

Again, my problem with you is that you sound like you’re making this a black and white issue. Boyfriend Trainer? I actually find that amusing. Has it ever occurred to you that some men behave in ways that warrant such products?

I myself, were I more physically superior (or at least had arcane powers ), would be very happy to help my sister train her boyfriend sometimes. (Good Lord… the things that boy says… )

I haven’t seen the boyfriend trainers, but take heart; I’ve seen some YouTube videos (some were lame but one was really creative and funny) about how to train your b****. So we have it covered…

Alan

 

[severus68]

May I voice my protest against the characterization of Satan as a ‘slimy dragon’?

Its all about control and subjugation - not limited to one gender other than on this and similar threads… Not talking about Mama bears and Elephant Grandmas of course.

 

[severus68]

Well I hope for your sake she submits to you every day and night as is REQUIRED of her per Collosian 3:18!!! It is a 2-way street my friend.

Lol.

 

[severus68]

Ironman is the name of a popular movie.

If you replace the ‘man’ with ‘woman’, it turns into a command

And I’m pretty surprised that so many women are posting in this thread, do they make docking stations for laptops in the kitchen nowadays?

Haha, no seriously, I get a bad rap all the time for suggesting that women should be housewivs and men should be the workers. It’s just the way I was bought up, and the way my family and all my relatives’ family worked for the last hundred years or so. I don’t find anything inferior in women being cookers and cleaners, it’s just as important and difficult as the mans job of bringing home bread. I just think each gender is better suited to a particular role than the other. It’s almost as if God created women to be housewives, staying at home to nurture the child and so on…I mean, He did give them a portable food dispenser that they have wherever they go, it’s a beautiful thing, women shouldn’t abuse it methinks.

The Bible does kind of give the idea that women are below men, or rather that men are supposed to be the superior sex. Why is it that we call God Father or refer to Him as a male? I heard, theologically, it’s because His children are supposed to be subject to Him and His desires, so He is the dominant figure, therefore we apply the same standard for mortals. If He wanted women to be dominant and men to be the shadows, He would present Himself and His name in the female tense. That’s just my thought, especially seeing as Jesus himself was a male . Although Paul makes a good point in the Bible, somehwere in Corinthians, when he says that womens should be subject to their husbands, and husbands subject to their wives; they no longer exert control over their own bodies, but give their bodies as satisfactions to their partners. This is the beauty of marriage; a man and a woman join together as one. They enjoy pleasure by eachothers bodies, and thus become one body, if one stumbles or cries, they both do so. Women shouldn’t deny their husbands and husbands definitely shouldn’t deny their wives.

I just think God has a very specific purpose for women, and it differs to that of men. The Virgin Mary is a perfect example of that; she occupies the more feminine side of divinity and Christ’s purpose. Sure, women can’t be priests, but I’m sure deep down men also get furious at the fact that they can’t bear a child or feed it from their breasts; God created women to carry that burden for the sake of life, and they should be honored.

It goes on and on haha.

Amusing post. Glad the Church does not agree with you.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Amusing post. Glad the Church does not agree with you.

The Church believes it is bad for a woman to stay at home and raise the kids while the man goes out and seeks money?

 

[simple_soul]

The Church believes it is bad for a woman to stay at home and raise the kids while the man goes out and seeks money?

*I don’t believe the church thinks that but according to some posters around here men should sit back and wait for woman to ask men to support them, defend them or take care of them, so they can stay home and raise the kids.

And here I have always thought self sacrificing and self giving of ones self for the protection and good or sake of another was supposed to be given freely…I often wonder if Jesus had waited around in heaven untill we decided to ask Him to come and save us and redeem us and protect us from the enemy, would He still be waiting for us to ask Him*.

One of the most beautiful things about my husband is I do not have to ask him to almost work himself to death to try and make ends meet and I know he would die trying to protect me and our children and I have never had to ask him to do this. it is just a part of who he is and if he sees me a bit scared or confused or hurting he is right there trying to help me with out me even asking for it…I so believe he is so Christ-like…

 

[severus68]

The Church believes it is bad for a woman to stay at home and raise the kids while the man goes out and seeks money?

The Church does not say a woman has to stay at home and cannot work outside the home, have a career or anything like that. It is possible even for a woman to go out and work and provide for her family while the husband is a stay at home dad. It is for the couple to decide. There are many possible permutations.

 

[severus68]

*I don’t believe the church thinks that but according to some posters around here men should sit back and wait for woman to ask men to support them, defend them or take care of them, so they can stay home and raise the kids.

And here I have always thought self sacrificing and self giving of ones self for the protection and good or sake of another was supposed to be given freely…I often wonder if Jesus had waited around in heaven untill we decided to ask Him to come and save us and redeem us and protect us from the enemy, would He still be waiting for us to ask Him*.

One of the most beautiful things about my husband is I do not have to ask him to almost work himself to death to try and make ends meet and I know he would die trying to protect me and our children and I have never had to ask him to do this. it is just a part of who he is and if he sees me a bit scared or confused or hurting he is right there trying to help me with out me even asking for it…I so believe he is so Christ-like…

I am sure you have a great husband but wouldn’t you too die for your famiy if you had too?
All the women I know, would.

 

[simple_soul]

I am sure you have a great husband but wouldn’t you too die for your famiy if you had too?
All the women I know, would.

I hope and pray that I would…and no my husband does not need to ask me either.
But the one thing I know from my husband is that if it came down to it, he would not let me die for him or my children no matter how hard I tried to, he would make sure he died trying to protect us before anything happened to me or our children…It’s just the way he is.