- Status
M
Marilena
Guest
if i remember correctly, altars should be marble.
W
Walking_Home
Guest
I highlight above what you conveniently left out—the reason it is not recommended.
All I can go by–is the letter. If a person out there --somewhere —for the sake of devotion wants to attend the TLM–with no intention of separating from Rome—not committing a sin --I am not going to judge them as going against the Holy See.
C
Caesar
Guest
I hope to go down to the oratory in St. Louis for the ICRSS ordinations on June 15th. It will also give me a chance to see the preformation house and to meet our old friend SummaTheo
Should prove to be an enjoyable event.
Here is another favorite that I saw in November (unfortunately with a very disrespectful class):
http://www.omiworld.org/PIC/B_Album_8_3_2005-9_0_4.jpg
Notre Dame de Ottawa. The statues and columns and the rest of the ornamentation may look like marble, but it is really wood. They gilded parts of it in the early 1920s, along with overlaying the belltowers with silver (looks rather tacky to me, although they shine white in the sun).
K
Karin
Guest
CHAPTER IV : ALTARS
.
Can. 1236 §1 In accordance with the traditional practice of the Church, the table of a fixed altar is to be of stone, indeed of a single natural stone. However, even some other worthy and solid material may be used, if the Episcopal Conference so judges. The support or the base can be made from any material.
M
Marilena
Guest
ty:thumbsup: marble is stone
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
I asked my priest recently if it was a sin to go the SSPX Mass for a one time occasion, knowing full well their status with Rome. He said, no sin. I asked him about receiving communion there, and again he said it was OK. I asked him if one would have to go to confession for going to an SSPX Mass and he said no. He’s a NO priest, by the way.
M
Marilena
Guest
wow!!!I hope to go down to the oratory in St. Louis for the ICRSS ordinations on June 15th. It will also give me a chance to see the preformation house and to meet our old friend SummaTheo
Should prove to be an enjoyable event.
Here is another favorite that I saw in November (unfortunately with a very disrespectful class):
http://www.omiworld.org/PIC/B_Album_8_3_2005-9_0_4.jpg
Notre Dame de Ottawa. The statues and columns and the rest of the ornamentation may look like marble, but it is really wood. They gilded parts of it in the early 1920s, along with overlaying the belltowers with silver (looks rather tacky to me, although they shine white in the sun).
beautiful church!!!
M
Marilena
Guest
M
marymonde
Guest
I suppose we can debate the video until the end of time.
First of all I always get the comment from folks that go to the Novus Ordo mass, “…at least it is has reverence.”
I looked up the definition of reverence and this is how it is defined:
**rev·er·ence /ˈrɛvərəns, ˈrɛvrəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rev-er-uhns, rev-ruhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -enced, -enc·ing.
–noun 1. a feeling or attitude of deep respect tinged with awe; veneration. (note it doesn’t say adoration)
2. the outward manifestation of this feeling: to pay reverence.
3. a gesture indicative of deep respect; an obeisance, bow, or curtsy.
4. the state of being revered.
5. (initial capital letter) a title used in addressing or mentioning a member of the clergy (usually prec. by your or his).
–verb (used with object) 6. to regard or treat with reverence; venerate: One should reverence God and His laws. **
Protestants observe reverence in their services. This does not make it an acceptable act of homage and adoration to Almighty God. All it means is that there is a certain disposition maintained. A reverent Novus Ordo mass only indicates that people are establishing a manner of decorum while a mass is being offered. No different than how a protestant hopes to present his disposition before Our Lord or a good American before his president.
Secondly, one needs to compare the prayers of the two masses, and here it is…
geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/5816/compare.html
The comparison of Cain and Abel, imho, is relevant. Examine the difference in how the mystery of faith is presented in both masses. First the Tridentine mass:
*"In like manner, after He had supped, taking also this excellent chalice into His holy and venerable hands, and giving thanks to Thee, He blessed and gave it to His disciples, saying: Take and drink ye all of this,
FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL TESTAMENT: THE MYSTERY OF FAITH: WHICH SHALL BE SHED FOR YOU AND FOR MANY UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS.
As often as ye shall do these thing ye shall do them in remembrance of Me."*
These words are from the Novus Ordo:
"Let us proclaim the mystery of faith;
Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again".
He most certainly has died, risen and will come again, no arguement there. But why would anyone utter these words, after Our Lord has been called down on the altar (table) by a priest, in His PRESENCE? It is tantamount to denying He is RIGHT there in front of us.
We could go on and on arguing about abuses, validity, etc. The most significant question for me is…“Am I worshipping and giving God the finest words, the finest contemplation of His sacrifice, the finest Holy Mass”?
First of all I always get the comment from folks that go to the Novus Ordo mass, “…at least it is has reverence.”
I looked up the definition of reverence and this is how it is defined:
**rev·er·ence /ˈrɛvərəns, ˈrɛvrəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rev-er-uhns, rev-ruhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -enced, -enc·ing.
–noun 1. a feeling or attitude of deep respect tinged with awe; veneration. (note it doesn’t say adoration)
2. the outward manifestation of this feeling: to pay reverence.
3. a gesture indicative of deep respect; an obeisance, bow, or curtsy.
4. the state of being revered.
5. (initial capital letter) a title used in addressing or mentioning a member of the clergy (usually prec. by your or his).
–verb (used with object) 6. to regard or treat with reverence; venerate: One should reverence God and His laws. **
Protestants observe reverence in their services. This does not make it an acceptable act of homage and adoration to Almighty God. All it means is that there is a certain disposition maintained. A reverent Novus Ordo mass only indicates that people are establishing a manner of decorum while a mass is being offered. No different than how a protestant hopes to present his disposition before Our Lord or a good American before his president.
Secondly, one needs to compare the prayers of the two masses, and here it is…
geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/5816/compare.html
The comparison of Cain and Abel, imho, is relevant. Examine the difference in how the mystery of faith is presented in both masses. First the Tridentine mass:
*"In like manner, after He had supped, taking also this excellent chalice into His holy and venerable hands, and giving thanks to Thee, He blessed and gave it to His disciples, saying: Take and drink ye all of this,
FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD, OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL TESTAMENT: THE MYSTERY OF FAITH: WHICH SHALL BE SHED FOR YOU AND FOR MANY UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS.
As often as ye shall do these thing ye shall do them in remembrance of Me."*
These words are from the Novus Ordo:
"Let us proclaim the mystery of faith;
Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again".
He most certainly has died, risen and will come again, no arguement there. But why would anyone utter these words, after Our Lord has been called down on the altar (table) by a priest, in His PRESENCE? It is tantamount to denying He is RIGHT there in front of us.
We could go on and on arguing about abuses, validity, etc. The most significant question for me is…“Am I worshipping and giving God the finest words, the finest contemplation of His sacrifice, the finest Holy Mass”?
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
That’s an incredible church! Thanks for posting it.I hope to go down to the oratory in St. Louis for the ICRSS ordinations on June 15th. It will also give me a chance to see the preformation house and to meet our old friend SummaTheo
Should prove to be an enjoyable event.
Here is another favorite that I saw in November (unfortunately with a very disrespectful class):
http://www.omiworld.org/PIC/B_Album_8_3_2005-9_0_4.jpg
Notre Dame de Ottawa. The statues and columns and the rest of the ornamentation may look like marble, but it is really wood. They gilded parts of it in the early 1920s, along with overlaying the belltowers with silver (looks rather tacky to me, although they shine white in the sun).
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Didn’t leave it out at all (whether you believe it or not). It was right there. It’s not recommended. Coupled with ED’s warning (given by a pope) regarding a falling into a schismatic attitude (which frequent attendance MIGHT engender), I still think it’s swimming against the Holy See.
And you still haven’t answered my very simple question (so I should stop applying the word “spin” to others if I were you): do YOU think that the Holy See wants people to go to SSPX Masses? Don’t “spin” it with “I can only go by the letter” (**I **can only go by the letter, too…and ED).
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Heck, I did that! I asked a priest about it before hand. I didn’t go to communion, though.
M
Marilena
Guest
its truly beautiful!
M
marymonde
Guest
Caesar you have posted a picture of SFdS oratory, my parish! That is Archbishop Raymond Burke offering the Holy Mass in the photo. He is going to ordain the Insititute of Christ the King Priests at the Basilica of St. Louis, King of France. The seminarians from Griciglano, Italy will be there as well. I cannot wait!
C
Caesar
Guest
Oh yes, I forgot the ordinations where in the Basilica. Archbishop Burke is quite open to the Tridentine Mass isnt he?
You are very lucky to go to such a parish. I first saw the photographs of it in the vocations package the ICRSS sent me.
C
Caesar
Guest
Yes, confession through the SSPX is the only sacrament that, it could be argued, is invalid I believe.
If you go to an SSPX Mass (and I have been) dont give money at the offertory, and (I have been told) it isnt wise to recieve communion, although it is quite valid.
M
marymonde
Guest
Yes we are BLESSED to have the good Archbishop and the parish. He wishes to make St. Louis the Latin Mass center of the country. He wants to establish schools by traditional priests and nuns that will teach the sacred music and latin as requirements. He has also founded a traditional order located here in STL, the Canons of the New Jerusalem.
I was told these will be the first traditional ordinations here in the US in sometime (SSPX is not included in this statement).
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
I think that marriage is also not a valid sacrament for SSPX. maybe someone here can say why.
M
marymonde
Guest
And I believe Holy Matrimony as well. You must have faculties conferred from the local ordinary to perform marriages and hear confessions. All other sacraments do not need a bishops approval.
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