What will provoke the next Ecumenical Council?

[Darryl_B]

Didn’t say it did.

Only that V1 caused it.

And, in turn, the death of the Papal States caused V1.

This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

If I lived in a vacuum I would probably agree.

 

[LilyM]

I have never understood the cumbersome idea of Ecumenical councils. If a simple lay person can claim to ask God something and get a response, why can’t the Pope just directly ask God to clarify the subject at issue and then give an infallible decision?

On some things - some Marian dogmas, contraception, the ordination of women, the canonization of saints - that is more or less what the Popes have done.

 

[Brendan_64]

It’ll probably have to deal with the hot-button issues of LGBT and women ordination and divorce and remarriage.

But also, I hope it would clarify the moral issues of today, especially regarding topics that don’t have clear answers (like Transgender persons?) etc.

This ‘transgender issue’ has been clarified. There are only two genders, male and female, and people cannot change their gender. Scripture is clear on this issue and Pope Francis has also spoken on this issue.

As for the ordination of women to the priesthood, this issue is settled, it cannot happen. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis put this issue to bed once and for all.

The Church cannot look at the prevailing values of the secular, liberal world around us and then change its teachings to mirror the values of society. To do that would be to see the world around us as a form of moral authority.

 

[Wandile]

I think the next council will be caused as a reaction to the overt modernism and controversial nature and scandals the current pontificate has caused.

I just saw a Monsignor in the Vatican remark over overhearing two cardinals discussing the next conclave saying that because of the current pontificate and all the scandals, modernism and nonsense that has accompanied it, the next conclave will take weeks or even months because both sides (conservative/ traditionalist vs liberals/modernists) are not going to budge one iota. The church is at a point where middle ground does not exist anymore like it did for the past 50 years but rather the next papacy will be deciding in the ultimate future of the church ( another Anglican Church or the church who she once and always gloriously was).

Anyway the next council will happen a lot sooner than we all expect. I say within the next 20 years.

It will address modernism, communism, radical feminism, relativism, and issue various anathemas.

It will also reform the liturgy massively to a more traditional bent. Either an all round return to the mass of St Pius V (Tridentine rite) or an ordinary form which pretty much looks like the Tridentine rite. The return of Latin too and the removal of women and laity (other than altar boys) from the sanctuary. The removal of optionality in the mass will also be achieved.

It will also probably definitively interpret the documents of Vatican II in light of tradition with the pin of anathema against any other interpretations. It will also touch on the limits of papal authority or rather what to do when a pope goes off the rails (heresy). For those who don’t know papal power is supreme but not absolute. Many mistake it to be the latter when it is the former.

Lastly the council will condemn ecumenism as it is currently understood today and reaffirm the truth of the Catholic Church as necessary for salvation. A triumphant exclamation of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” and the need to convert the world. Missionary zeal will be reinvigorated.

It will not touch on the reunion of the eastern churches with the Catholic Church as that will be dealt with in a subsequent council once the Catholic Church has sorted out her own mess.

It will be a Trent and Vatican I combined.

 

[angel12]

I believe you will be sorely disappointed, at least when it comes to liturgy.

 

[Vonsalza]

I believe you will be sorely disappointed, at least when it comes to liturgy.

I think you’re largely right. Which is why a diversity of liturgies with fixed common elements is probably the best long-term solution for a culturally diverse world.

As I’ve said elsewhere - from an anthropological perspective, religions must bridge the old and new in order to survive. If they refuse to change at all, they become the dead religions you study in college and if they change too much they’re easily dismissed (lookin’ at you, liberalized and shrinking mainlines).

“Modernism” is a problem that never goes away if your religion is to continue. When it finally gets solved once and for all, then your religion is dead. This goes for all of them.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Right. The line that the Church needs to walk is staying available to people while not abandoning our teachings for that purpose.

 

[catholic1seeks]

V1 very much caused V2. If you walk back one, you need to walk back both.

And I wouldn’t hold it at the Vatican. So no V3

I’m not sure how that had to do with my post you were replying to.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I think the next council will be caused as a reaction to the overt modernism and controversial nature and scandals the current pontificate has caused.

Eh, nah. On the average parish level, there’s not much scandal or controversy at all. It’s mostly just online Catholic conservatives who usually think they are more “Catholic than the Pope.”

 

[Maximilian75]

On the level of the Bishops and the Pope? quite a lot…

Does Hell exist?
Can divorced Catholics reccieve Communion?
How about open and active homosexuals?

Based on the Catechism and the Deposit of Faith, all these seem simple.
Based on recent comments by bishops and the Pope, it’s more confusing.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Does Hell exist?

Where in the world is there confusion about this? Yes, the old atheistic interviewer said some things, but how does that have any bearing on the church’s teaching? Or the fact that Pope Francis has repeatedly talked about hell elsewhere? Even his newest apostolic exhortation talks about the reality of the Devil and no mere myth.

Can divorced Catholics reccieve Communion?

A sticky topic precisely because the world today is not what it was 100 years ago. There are new questions that must be asked. It’s not as simple as saying “divorce and remarriage = automatic culpable hell-bound adulterous life.”

How about open and active homosexuals?

How about them?

None of this seems to come close to the days of, oh, the fourth century when the “world groaned when it found itself Arian.”

There have been worse times with serious confusion in the Church.

 

[Maximilian75]

First topic- valid.

third topic- ‘can they reccieve communion’

 

[Wandile]

Eh, nah. On the average parish level, there’s not much scandal or controversy at all. It’s mostly just online Catholic conservatives who usually think they are more “Catholic than the Pope.”

The average parish level will have it filtered down from the top soon enough if the issues are not checked. This pope “seems” unwilling to and even support many of these controversial positions being pushed today. He doesn’t ever correct the radical liberal German positions but is quick to rebuke ultra orthodox Cardinal Sarah, Burke and others as soon as they open their mouth the say things that are authentically Catholic.

Uh yeah, it’s not about people thinking themselves more catholic than the pope but that’s a nice way to try dismiss valid opinions and questions from Catholics concerning a pope who says and does more and more scandalous stuff.

 

[Wandile]

You underestimate the level of confusion today. If you haven’t noticed we are in the worst crisis the church has ever been in. This is a fact testified to by emeninet bishops such as Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

 

[Vonsalza]

You asked a loaded question and I was unloading it.

Seriously. Go back and check. They’re direct replies to you.

 

[StarMapp]

One good thing is, no extended interval will be expended in determining what needs to be changed or issues to be resolved. V3 will be a repair job.

 

[PetraG]

Change is coming faster and faster. Not soon, I hope. One commentator says it takes the Church a generation to digest the work of a Council. Wouldn’t want to start the next one before the last one has found equilibrium.

 

[LilyM]

You underestimate the level of confusion today. If you haven’t noticed we are in the worst crisis the church has ever been in. This is a fact testified to by emeninet bishops such as Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Really? Do we have a near-majority if not an actual majority of bishops openly professing heresy about an absolute essential of.the faith - the very nature of Christ - and coming to physical fisticuffs about it as we had between St Nicholas and Arius?

Do we have two claimants to the Papacy, each supported by large groups of secular leaders, both issuing decrees, apponting Cardinals who nominated successors and so on, as we did for decades in the Western Schism?

Do we have huge numbers of the faithful not only splitting off from the Church but then turning around and killing and torturing the Catholics among whom they had formerly numbered themselves? We did during the Reformation.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Thank you! I wish I could like a post twice!

The faithful are strong. The Church has made it through far worse than this.

 

[Wandile]

Wandile:

You underestimate the level of confusion today. If you haven’t noticed we are in the worst crisis the church has ever been in. This is a fact testified to by emeninet bishops such as Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Really? Do we have a near-majority if not an actual majority of bishops openly professing heresy about an absolute essential of.the faith - the very nature of Christ - and coming to physical fisticuffs about it as we had between St Nicholas and Arius?

Do we have two claimants to the Papacy, each supported by large groups of secular leaders, both issuing decrees, apponting Cardinals who nominated successors and so on, as we did for decades in the Western Schism?

Do we have huge numbers of the faithful not only splitting off from the Church but then turning around and killing and torturing the Catholics among whom they had formerly numbered themselves? We did during the Reformation.

Worse…

What we have is a church with historically low mass attendance, a dying monasticism, religious orders on their death beds, priests performing unspeakable abuses on the regular, a clergy that is said to be 2/3 gay, Nuns who reject their habits, vocations are at an all time low, churches are closing on the weekly, the sacramemt of confession has all but disappeared in many parishes, communion being offered to unrepentant adulterers and seemingly having papal approval, knowledge of the doctrines of the church is close to non-existeant for huge portions of the church, relativism has taken grip of the church…

Unlike the past where it was one major heresy or one major schism at a time , today it is multiple major heresies and multiple schisms. Pope St Pius X accurately identified modernism as the most dangerous heresy because it is the “synthesis of all heresies” as he called it.