"What's on your list?" OR "Why are you still single?"

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Snert, I stated quite clearly that I didn’t know whether my comments applied to you or not, but that I just needed to say a few things. Forgive me if I didn’t make it clear that I needed to say these things to clarify a bit about Catholic teaching, not to pass judgment on you.

Your original post made it sound as though divorce were for Catholics for reasons which are not grave in nature. It was my impression of your comments that made me feel compelled to make my comments. I chose not to ask you to clarify because this thread is not about why those of us who are divorced got divorced (incidentally, I too married while outside the Church), and the information truly is none of my business.

I do apologize for not being more clear about my intentions, and for the pain I’ve caused you. None of us needs to reveal personal information we don’t want to, but in withholding personal information, we need to be responsible for the misunderstandings that may arise by only telling part of the story.

Gertie
I understand totally that we are all responsible for what we put up here on the forums. I think you need to realize that too - in not judging very vague posts rashly. I was not trying to tell anyone to get divorced. If you’ve ever read any of my posts about divorce, I’ve never ever condoned it nor will condone it in any case. But what I’m confused about is where in this post does it come across that I make it seem like divorce is okay at all?
I had my first date when I was 26. No kidding. Because all my life I had been shy. Now, I’m divorced but not annulled. And I want to remain single.* I came to the realization* that the reason I was so shy and didn’t start dating until really late was because God wanted me to stay single. I have no plans to remarry - ever. Or even date anymore. I love solitude - just me and God. It’s too peaceful and I’m too content.
  1. I never stated why I got a divorce, or even alluded as to why.
  2. I stated that now that I’m divorced, I don’t ever want to remarry or date
and this was the reason for my post, having nothing to do with divorce. I only mentioned it so you could understand that I have no intention of “coupling up” with anyone-
3) My post was in response to a person who said they were shy and it was difficult to date in that type of setting. My response was trying to imply that perhaps God made them shy for a reason and I was trying to allude that instead of getting in a serious relationship and possibly setting yourself up in the future for a marriage God may not want you to be in, to accept that maybe being single is best in some cases. And I was trying to stay within the bounds of this thread by stating ‘why I was still single’.

I’ve already apologized that I may have thrown up red flags unintentionally. You obviously did not accept my apology. It’s your prerogative, and you don’t have to.
But the Church does have something to say about divorce. Divorce is allowed for grave reasons, such as the safety of the spouse or children. This does not mean the parties are free to remarry, of course. But divorce is not allowed simply because one feels he or she has made a mistake, chosen the wrong person or vocation. In marriages in which there are children, the pain divorce causes them is not justifiable except for very grave reasons.

I’m glad that you are so happy now, although I don’t remember where in the gospels it says that our soul purpose in life is to seek our own happiness and contentment. 🤷 If you don’t have minor children (and I sincerely hope you don’t), why don’t you apply for the annulment and pursue religious life?
I have no fault with the beginning of your op in response to mine. First you tell me that you may be wrong in your assessment. Fine, I accept that. Later, you make the judgements quoted above anyway. Please by all means, point out in my op where your judgements came from. I am really interested in what exactly I said to make you think the above judgements. And that little shrug makes the knife twist even more painful.

In any case, since I am not looking to get remarried, or date (and even if one was to put me in a situation in which dating was possible, I would not) why you would even suggest that I need to join a religious order? That is a very private thing that I have been trying to discern for years since my divorce, and because I am not annulled, I have at least one hurdle to overcome before I can do that successfully. I have come to my own (yes, my own, not yours) very temporary conclusion that God does not want me to be consecrated to a religious order. The jury, however, is still not out, and since I cannot pursue an annullment at this time I am not going to stress over that either.

Perhaps you would like me to pick out one of your previous posts and start applying my own judgements to that? Would it take that for you to understand that you should not start judging a circumsance you don’t know anything about? Because I can guarantee you that I will know nothing about your circumstances in whatever post I pick yet I would be fully cabaple of putting my own ‘spin’ on it so that it appears as if I did. And not only that, but according to what you just said, I would have every right to misinterpet and wrongly comment on your post simply because you may have left out information I wasn’t aware of.

To everyone else: I’m really sorry about this. I did not mean to infer I condoned divorce and I really hope I didn’t come across that way in my op in this thread. As a matter of fact, I still don’t see how I condoned divorce in my first post. If anyone would like to pm me and explain it to me, I would appreciate it, though.

I don’t like anyone judging someone else, especially if the post was honest. I guess I now realize I like being judged myself even less. To all: I apologize about my outbursts. Please by all means get back to the topic at hand. My own comments on why I’m still single are obviously of no consequence to anyone and the point of my short first post here must have fallen on deaf ears, so for that I also apologize and will not comment any further…
 
I think a real problem today is that despite the Catechism being quite clear, the general question ‘what do you believe, as a Catholic?’ has become a bit like asking ‘how long is a piece of string?’

I admit to being a cradle Catholic:o My family on both sides is very Catholic. I went to a Catholic school and we were taught all about the sacrements and the purpose of the Mass, but somewhere along the line, I don’t know whether it was because the older generation was too embarassed to deal with it, or because there was a total ‘head in the sand’ approach to the secularisation of society, nobody ever actually said, point-blank, ‘sex before marriage is wrong and living in sin is wrong’ until I was already well into my twenties. It was always swept politely under the carpet (see below…)

My brother’s ex-girlfriend used to come to Mass with the family and would definitely have described herself as a good Catholic. She openly told me they were sleeping together, but even her grandmother, who was definitely otherwise very traditional and straight-laced, had advised her that it was probably not such a bad thing, as times had changed and I think it was assumed by both families that they would marry anyway (they didn’t - they broke up because they had just outgrown one another) My mother always introduced her as my brother’s ‘friend’ - which really wound her up!

I only began to make an effort to understand what Catholisism is really about when I started thinking (👍😛 NOTE: THINKING - it’s a girl-thing, but sometimes it helps!) why I actually made the effort to go to Mass and what it all actually meant to me. I suppose I started to compare the really strong relationship my parents have and the way my family pulls together with other families who are less close and question how big a part faith played in all of that. I also got really into history at college (that’s high school to you transaltlantic folk) and as we studied the Reformation and I am actually related to a real live (well, dead actually - obviously) Catholic martyr, I think it made it all the more fascinating.

Now I’m in a really odd situation, because I have a brother who regularly attends Mass, married to a non-Catholic and they lived together before the wedding (for practical reasons - apparently:p) I have actually managed, since fully understanding the Church’s teachings, to live by the rules, but now I have met a man who has been married, but not in a Catholic Church and is not a Catholic and I’m trying to keep it platonic and get to know him properly. This is not easy, but I keep praying and I’m a strong willed little critter so I think I will manage it! It also means I have to make double the effort to be charming and fun and understanding because I can’t resort to launching myself at him to defuse disagreements:rolleyes:

Ironically, he’s the closest thing to my ideal man as I think is possible and like me, he comes from a very secure and Christian family. I read on another Catholic site that you know when you have met the right person because you constantly want to give thanks to God for the time you spend together and that is how I feel. I know there is no harm in getting to know him better and if he can not accept my beliefs and is not, ultimatley prepared to apply for an annulment (and be granted one) then we are just destined to be friends and that is a very special gift in itself.

It was because of this friendship that I originally posted on this forum and I’m really glad I did because I’ve encountered some amazing people through it and it does no harm to have one’s views challenged sometimes. I’m not sure what conclusions to draw from all this, except that through my involvement with a non-Catholic divorced man I have definitely strengthened my own faith and found some really amazing people to help me on my journey. No idea where it will take me - but reading the other posts has given me hope for the future and I can’t describe adequately what that means to me:thumbsup:
 
I agree it is hard for those who are committed to abstinence until marriage. A friend of mine (and coworker at my school) just turned 32 and has remained abstinent. Although she is not holding out for a man who has done the same, she would at least like a man who can remain chaste throughout dating, courtship, and engagement. Apparently that is just asking too much of most men 🤷
That right there is why I have my doubts on ever finding someone. Apparently abstinence is a bad word these days since it’s all about ‘test driving the car before buying’. I hate that phrase. 😛

But I suppose the qualities I look for are very basic. Mostly I like someone who has a good sense of humor and isn’t overly serious, easy going, is intelligent, doesn’t smoke or think getting drunk is a form of entertainment, is patient, some similar interests, and likes to be outdoors since I like to hike, garden, fish, things like that. A Catholic would be good, though I would like them to have a healthy perspective of their faith, but I wouldn’t hold it against them if they weren’t as long as they respected my faith.
 
That right there is why I have my doubts on ever finding someone. Apparently abstinence is a bad word these days since it’s all about ‘test driving the car before buying’. I hate that phrase. 😛
:rolleyes: But they would also say that they don’t objectify women, though - right? (Just because they think getting married is like buying a car … )
But I suppose the qualities I look for are very basic. Mostly I like someone who has a good sense of humor and isn’t overly serious, easy going, is intelligent, doesn’t smoke or think getting drunk is a form of entertainment, is patient, some similar interests, and likes to be outdoors since I like to hike, garden, fish, things like that. A Catholic would be good, though I would like them to have a healthy perspective of their faith, but I wouldn’t hold it against them if they weren’t as long as they respected my faith.
And don’t object to raising the children in the Catholic faith …
 
More than likely! I hear that phrase so much, it’s sickening. It’s sad when marriage is reduced to car shopping.

And yes, that too. 😃
 
That right there is why I have my doubts on ever finding someone. Apparently abstinence is a bad word these days since it’s all about ‘test driving the car before buying’. I hate that phrase. 😛
I agree. Which is one of the reasons why I am looking for an authentically Catholic woman; one who takes the moral teachings of the Church to heart. I do not care about her past, just what she is doing now.

Hmm… The paragraph below has some interesting statements. Let’s look at them one by one, shall we?
But I suppose the qualities I look for are very basic. Mostly I like someone
That is a good start. Trust me, my experiece is that a someone is better than a something.
who has a good sense of humor
Waste of time. Humor is over-rated.
and isn’t overly serious,
People should be serious. Life is serious. I mean just look at how important it is for a painter to know whether or to paint over the windows. Or four a typist to knew gud grammer and speling.
easy going,
Wasn’t that a movie from the 60’s? Do they really have to ride a motorcycle?
is intelligent,
Gud brains is over-done, - er- I meen, not importent.
doesn’t smoke
Goodness! I would hope not! There is nothing worse than the smell of smoking hair.
or think getting drunk is a form of entertainment,
It’s not? Are you sure?
is patient,
You want someone who is in the hospital? Are you a nurse or doctor?
some similar interests,
So a gang-banger and a tree-hugger would not be a good match?
and likes to be outdoors
Are there still bugs in the woods?
since I like to hike, garden, fish, things like that.
Wait! Those can be indoor activities. I mean haven’t you ever seen indoor tracks, greenhouses or fish tanks? Pasty white is a good color!
A Catholic would be good, though I would like them to have a healthy perspective of their faith, but I wouldn’t hold it against them if they weren’t as long as they respected my faith.
Okay, that is a good conclusion.

Thank you for allowing me to critique your post. 😉

Seriously, yours is a pretty good lit. You seem to have a good idea what you are looking for. I would just encourage you not to be too focused on the list.
 
I agree. Which is one of the reasons why I am looking for an authentically Catholic woman; one who takes the moral teachings of the Church to heart. I do not care about her past, just what she is doing now.

Hmm… The paragraph below has some interesting statements. Let’s look at them one by one, shall we?

That is a good start. Trust me, my experiece is that a someone is better than a something.

Waste of time. Humor is over-rated.

People should be serious. Life is serious. I mean just look at how important it is for a painter to know whether or to paint over the windows. Or four a typist to knew gud grammer and speling.

Wasn’t that a movie from the 60’s? Do they really have to ride a motorcycle?

Gud brains is over-done, - er- I meen, not importent.

Goodness! I would hope not! There is nothing worse than the smell of smoking hair.

It’s not? Are you sure?

You want someone who is in the hospital? Are you a nurse or doctor?

So a gang-banger and a tree-hugger would not be a good match?

Are there still bugs in the woods?

Wait! Those can be indoor activities. I mean haven’t you ever seen indoor tracks, greenhouses or fish tanks? Pasty white is a good color!

Okay, that is a good conclusion.

Thank you for allowing me to critique your post. 😉

Seriously, yours is a pretty good lit. You seem to have a good idea what you are looking for. I would just encourage you not to be too focused on the list.
Bugs! You have a good point, maybe I should revise that. 😛 I should also add willing to kill spiders on my list! Haha.

And fish tank fishing is no good… I accidentally killed my fish when I was three trying to do something like that. 😦

Nah, I wouldn’t be too focused on it. That’s where the part about me being easy going comes in! Though there are a few qualities that my personality might clash with.

And you’re welcome! 😃
 
But I suppose the qualities I look for are very basic. Mostly I like someone who has a good sense of humor and isn’t overly serious, easy going, is intelligent, doesn’t smoke or think getting drunk is a form of entertainment, is patient, some similar interests, and likes to be outdoors since I like to hike, garden, fish, things like that. A Catholic would be good, though I would like them to have a healthy perspective of their faith, but I wouldn’t hold it against them if they weren’t as long as they respected my faith.
I can’t resist wishing you good luck in your search. It somehow made me sympathetical to your cause. 😉
 
Hmm… The paragraph below has some interesting statements. Let’s look at them one by one, shall we?

Thank you for allowing me to critique your post. 😉
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You just couldn’t resist, could you 😃

No matter my mood, rpp, your posts always bring a smile to my face. Well now, maybe not always, but this sort of goofiness just works wonders for the spirit 👍

Gertie
 
When it comes to people who have annulments, what’s on “the list” with regards to an “ex?”

Here’s what I mean. Last week was my son’s dad’s birthday. So I helped my 5y.o. make some paintings for his dad, and we framed them in inexpensive frames. (They were too precious, and it was really hard to let them go.) Then, at my son’s request, we took his dad out to dinner for his birthday. My son loves to have time with both his parents at the same time. It’s not always easy for me (I think it’s easier for his dad), but I’m an adult, I can handle it, and these moments give me lots to offer up. :o

We had Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner together as well (I nearly took up drinking, but we made it through those occasions). My new age type friends think this is great that we can be so “open” with each other. My Catholic friends think it’s great for my son, but that my willingness to do this (go through this) for my son is cutting off any chance of my ever remarrying.

I can’t, in good conscience, deny my son the security of having two parents who can act in a loving and supportive manner with each other. But I’m not going to get involved with some “sensitive new age guy” because all the Catholic men are looking for a traditional (i.e., bitter, chain-smoking, ex-hating) divorced woman.

So if someone has an annulment, is a neutral/positive relationship with the ex a “red flag” of some sort?

Gertie
 
Not like I’m feeling jealous, but… 😛 In fact, I don’t remember if I was passing out tired in the morning or if it was when I was running out to work, but I wanted to reply.
Chevalier, your posts are always so intelligent and witty; I don’t understand why some wise woman hasn’t snatched you up by now, lol. :hmmm:
:tiphat:

Thank you. Well, I don’t know. It just is like that. The same intelligence and wit can be annoying. I can write a 100-page long appeal using it and I can hold back a roomful of people who’ve decided to cross my way. I can be rather intimidating at times, even if there are those who have exploited my soft sides. Apart from that, right beside the humouristic witticisms is a certain melancholy that never goes away possibly since I was a child. I became a lawyer for a reason and that reason was not inborn talents. My father was a painter and my mother was an oriental philologist and both sets of genes sit deep in me. At any rate, ultimately few people stay around in the long run and those of them who are female are generally at that point as indifferent (and often as close) as sisters. It’s a complicated thing.
 
When it comes to people who have annulments, what’s on “the list” with regards to an “ex?”

…]

So if someone has an annulment, is a neutral/positive relationship with the ex a “red flag” of some sort?

Gertie
Again, depends. Of itself, not. But as many other things, it can indicate things hidden behind it. A good relationship with an ex may speak of a forgiving, conciliatory nature and a good deal of maturity. That’s good. But sometimes a relationship with an ex can be of the particular kind that makes you wonder whether that matter is really closed (as closed as it ever can be). You obviously don’t want to think ill of something which is natural with people, but at the same time you don’t want to be someone’s second best. So in the end it depends on the vibes.
 
When it comes to people who have annulments, what’s on “the list” with regards to an “ex?”

Here’s what I mean. Last week was my son’s dad’s birthday. So I helped my 5y.o. make some paintings for his dad, and we framed them in inexpensive frames. (They were too precious, and it was really hard to let them go.) Then, at my son’s request, we took his dad out to dinner for his birthday. My son loves to have time with both his parents at the same time. It’s not always easy for me (I think it’s easier for his dad), but I’m an adult, I can handle it, and these moments give me lots to offer up. :o

We had Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner together as well (I nearly took up drinking, but we made it through those occasions). My new age type friends think this is great that we can be so “open” with each other. My Catholic friends think it’s great for my son, but that my willingness to do this (go through this) for my son is cutting off any chance of my ever remarrying.

I can’t, in good conscience, deny my son the security of having two parents who can act in a loving and supportive manner with each other. But I’m not going to get involved with some “sensitive new age guy” because all the Catholic men are looking for a traditional (i.e., bitter, chain-smoking, ex-hating) divorced woman.

So if someone has an annulment, is a neutral/positive relationship with the ex a “red flag” of some sort?

Gertie
It’s not so much a “red flag” as it is the difficulty of being the second spouse in a situation where the first spouse is also part of the household, in spirit if not in the flesh.

This is one of the reasons I didn’t marry the first man who asked me to - he had an ex-wife and a son, and I didn’t want to share the rest of my life with them. But it was my mother who pointed out the fact that, if I were to marry that man, then I am also marrying his ex-wife and son, as well, and that the son’s grandparents on his mother’s side would be just as much part of my life as my fiance’s parents would be.

She said to me, “Can you handle that many sets of in-laws, or out-laws, or whatever you want to call them?” After considering these things, I broke it off with him - because there was just no way.

I realized that I needed to be with someone who was going to be the centre of my universe, and who was going to be able to make me the centre of his universe. It wasn’t long after I broke off with him that I met my husband. :flowers: :love:
 
When it comes to people who have annulments, what’s on “the list” with regards to an “ex?”

Here’s what I mean. Last week was my son’s dad’s birthday.

My Catholic friends think it’s great for my son, but that my willingness to do this (go through this) for my son is cutting off any chance of my ever remarrying.

I can’t, in good conscience, deny my son the security of having two parents who can act in a loving and supportive manner with each other.

So if someone has an annulment, is a neutral/positive relationship with the ex a “red flag” of some sort?

Gertie
Gertie, I’d say that if there are children involved, a neutral/positive relationship with an ex-spouse is helpful, as you noted, children do need both their parents, but, chevalier makes a good point about how over the relationship is…
Again, depends. Of itself, not. But as many other things, it can indicate things hidden behind it. A good relationship with an ex may speak of a forgiving, conciliatory nature and a good deal of maturity. That’s good. But sometimes a relationship with an ex can be of the particular kind that makes you wonder whether that matter is really closed (as closed as it ever can be). You obviously don’t want to think ill of something which is natural with people, but at the same time you don’t want to be someone’s second best. So in the end it depends on the vibes.
A friend of mine suggested that language gives a clue to where the relationship may be: my children’s father is a neutral, whereas my ex may indicate some degree of attachment is still there.
 
A friend of mine suggested that language gives a clue to where the relationship may be: my children’s father is a neutral, whereas my ex may indicate some degree of attachment is still there.
Actually, “my children’s father,” is a current denominator, while “ex” in the literal reading indicates the past. Such things are rather complex in practice. Most of the time, I can sense when a woman is attracted to someone. Sometimes she won’t notice but I will. That’s human, I don’t really care much. Problems start when it gets out of hand. It’s a matter of priority. If an ex or a new friend or some other person of your gender but not a relative or very good friend gets higher than yours, then you start feeling something’s not really right. This is common to both genders.
 
Actually, “my children’s father,” is a current denominator, while “ex” in the literal reading indicates the past. Such things are rather complex in practice. Most of the time, I can sense when a woman is attracted to someone. Sometimes she won’t notice but I will. That’s human, I don’t really care much. Problems start when it gets out of hand. It’s a matter of priority. If an ex or a new friend or some other person of your gender but not a relative or very good friend gets higher than yours, then you start feeling something’s not really right. This is common to both genders.
Hmmm, nearly tied me in knots there (maybe because its late and I probably should be heading for sleep), but, yes, if we’re honest with ourselves there are always signs that indicate how involved a person is in a relationship and when all the signs point away from oneself its time to reassess. The trick is being sensitive to that warning system and acting on the message, even if you don’t like the message.
 
True. Unfortunately, I have a knack for not acting on that kind of message. Sometimes I wonder whether forgiveness isn’t fuller and better by forgetting the wrong even in the sense of not putting up defences against that wrong reoccurring in the future. Charity doesn’t mean we should be stupid, but perhaps it might mean that sometimes we should (bad word, but still) accept exposure to risk when it is the cost of allowing someone a second chance. Or third. It’s hard to get it right.
 
True. Unfortunately, I have a knack for not acting on that kind of message. Sometimes I wonder whether forgiveness isn’t fuller and better by forgetting the wrong even in the sense of not putting up defences against that wrong reoccurring in the future. Charity doesn’t mean we should be stupid, but perhaps it might mean that sometimes we should (bad word, but still) accept exposure to risk when it is the cost of allowing someone a second chance. Or third. It’s hard to get it right.
Well, in the case of someone just not being interested, it’s not really a matter of “forgiveness” since there is no sin and no wrong-doing in just not being interested - if the girl is not interested in you, she is not sinning against you or doing something bad to you - it is simply just not for you to be with her, and that’s just that.

To think otherwise would be to think that the girl “owes” you attention and affection, or that she has some kind of God-given duty to like you - she doesn’t.
 
Well, in the case of someone just not being interested, it’s not really a matter of “forgiveness” since there is no sin and no wrong-doing in just not being interested - if the girl is not interested in you, she is not sinning against you or doing something bad to you - it is simply just not for you to be with her, and that’s just that.

To think otherwise would be to think that the girl “owes” you attention and affection, or that she has some kind of God-given duty to like you - she doesn’t.
I sign with my both hands under what you’ve just said except I was talking about the forgiveness of the faults and quirks of a person with whom one’s already in a relationship, such as tiny lies, tiny infidelities, lack of regard, lack of concern, habitual lack of time etc. People forgive those displays of lack of concern without seeing a lack of interest in it. As a result, they give yet another chance instead of moving on. It’s a part of the general struggle between forgiveness and red flags.
 
It’s not so much a “red flag” as it is the difficulty of being the second spouse in a situation where the first spouse is also part of the household, in spirit if not in the flesh.

This is one of the reasons I didn’t marry the first man who asked me to - he had an ex-wife and a son, and I didn’t want to share the rest of my life with them. But it was my mother who pointed out the fact that, if I were to marry that man, then I am also marrying his ex-wife and son, as well, and that the son’s grandparents on his mother’s side would be just as much part of my life as my fiance’s parents would be.

She said to me, “Can you handle that many sets of in-laws, or out-laws, or whatever you want to call them?” After considering these things, I broke it off with him - because there was just no way.

I realized that I needed to be with someone who was going to be the centre of my universe, and who was going to be able to make me the centre of his universe. It wasn’t long after I broke off with him that I met my husband. :flowers: :love:
Your description of marrying the person (and their child/ren, and their ex, and their ex-in-laws…) is exactly how it would be in this family. My ex even joked (kindly, if you can believe it) about giving me away at my wedding, should I ever marry. I politely declined the offer, should I ever marry, thank you but no thank you. I guess I just need to let go of what I want (marriage, and a faithful Catholic man to help raise my son) and accept that the sort of “superman” I’m looking for probably just doesn’t exist 🤷

It’s not exactly “on my list,” but in order to be able to accept me, this man would have to be both protective of me and my son, yet free of jealously or worry about my ex. And that would just be the start. There’s so much more to combining families than just two adults getting married… I really hadn’t thought this through from someone else’s perspective…

Well, I guess it’s celibacy and single parenting for me. (Still, I so totally wanted to be married.:() But this life is barely a “blip” in the scheme of eternity.

Gertie
 
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