What's the point in dating in today's society

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ChunkMonk said:
Did ‘we’ ever say we ascribe to this philosophy? If there even is a philosophy, which is debatable. Have ‘we’ heard of it? Yes. Do a lot of people who push Game Theory
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Is that a back peddle I hear?

We don’t need ‘ technique’. We need genuine. To understand someone, get to know them. Be yourself and listen.

There is a huge difference in getting a car out of a bog and using ‘tricks’ on a woman. Why compare the two?

To keep the interest of a woman, be yourself. It’s pretty simple. If a woman likes you, she will be interested. If not, well move on. Let it go. Let your interest in her go.

Happy or dysfunctional childhoods have nothing to do with this. That’s playing the victim, or not the victim, mentality.
Stunted social development - more play on victim mentality.
What’s your benchmark for social development?

Mr game theory man had no social skills at all and a mental illness. Yet he had a Nobel prize, and a loving wife.

Men should never assume what we women think is attractive, there’s a common first mistake of men.

We are not a system, not some way to align the chips in the male favour. We are not an odds on black or red proposition.

Low quality men? That’s an incredibly uncharitable and judgemental statement.

You are attempting, in that post, to subscribe ‘tight game’ to game theory. So the onus is on you now to explain game theory to us . And exactly which part of it applies to dating.
 
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Game theory just makes me roll my eyes, if a guy isn’t a contender to me then no clever game strategy on his part will turn him into one.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Ugly, poor, low value men know they are low value. Guys who are ugly, poor, socially awkward, and generally low value have spent their entire lives having that reinforced to them by women.
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I think you and I have different ideas of what “low quality” men are.

There’s the guy who kept trying to hit on me at work - when he wasn’t out back on his breaks smoking pot. There’s the guy who had 3 kids with 3 different women by age 25 and wasn’t supporting any of them. That’s my idea of a low quality man. Guy who thought my having a picture of a cat in my gaming profile was an invitation for an extremely crude come-on is probably also in there.

Short guy with messy hair and a lower but steady income? Sure, why not, as long as I can actually talk to him.
 
Admittedly you can’t always tell when someone is being fake when you first meet them but you usually figure it out long term. If it’s natural then I would argue that’s someones personality, women have personalities too.

To be fair the confident man would be more appealing.

The older you get the better you tend to get at spotting fake and toxic people.

As for looks, I never mentioned looks. Different people will have different ideas of what they want. To be honest I was more thinking of someone with bad finances that didn’t have the means or desire to make an honest living, is it worse to be shallow or a gold digger?
 
Let me see if I can explain this:

So let’s say a girl in my college catches my eye. I don’t know her friends, but I’ve seen her at Church a few times. I really want to see if we click. Okay. I have a few options here:
  1. Do nothing. 99.999999999999% of the time nothing happens.
  2. Ask a friend to introduce us. Well maybe she doesn’t have mutual friends with me. And if I do this I’m already signaling a lack of confidence, it will probably come off wrong.
  3. Cold approach and introduce myself. This is my only realistic shot. Okay. Now when do I do this approach? What am I going to say after I introduce myself? Should I just ask her out right away, or should I lead with a conversation about Church? If I do the lead-in, how long should I wait before asking her out? If I just ask her out, where should I ask her to? Coffee? Isn’t that boring though? Ask her to come to Church sometime? Ehh, she might get the wrong idea then. Or will she?
Thst’s just some of the questions that go into an approach. Imagine follow up conversations, the actual date, after the date, second date, third date, when is she my girlfriend? Is she seeing me as a romantic interest or as a ‘friend’? If she’s doing the ‘friend’ thing, is it because she takes things slow, or because she wants a beta orbiter (those girls DO exist). Is she leading me along, or is she really ‘just really busy this week’?

Now some guys, that is all natural. They just jump right in and see what happens. Some of those guys are smooth, and they typically do well. Some of those guys are socially awkward and they typically crash and burn.

But for most guys, at least some of those questions come up. For most guys, they develop some kind of game-plan. It might be a very basic one they came up with on the way over to introduce themselves, or it might be a super detailed plan they came up with the night before, after some beers with their buddies. Most guys are somewhere in between, and most guys have tried a million different approaches, including the ‘don’t think just do!’ method.

Now, either the guy comes up with the plan all on his own, or he asks other guys about it. So you ask your buddies. Especially the ones who are good with girls. Or you watch how they do it. Eventually, enough men do this that certain things become common knowledge.

Just do and don’t think? That’s Game. Tell jokes and be funny? That’s Game. Come up with game-plans? That’s Game. Introduce yourself? That’s Game. Ask her about her interests? That’s Game. There is good Game, bad Game, neutral Game, but it’s all Game.

And there is Game for one night stands and Game for serious relationships. Ask a girl to marry you at the beach because she loves the beach and you met at a youth group trip to the beach? Congratulations bro, you just played good Game. Ask her to marry you on a jumbotron at a ball game and she gets mad and says no? Sorry, man, that was bad Game.

Now, answer me this one question. How many times have you cold-approached a man and asked him out on a date?
 
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Okay, well most people, including women, do care about looks, confidence, monetary value, social graces, etc.
 
Is there really something fake and toxic about trying to act confident when you’re actually nervous? Is it fake to try to be more talkative when you are naturally quiet? Is it toxic to try to use a girls reactions to gauge her interest level?

Game isn’t just wearing fly clothes and telling a girl she’s dumb and hoping she’s got daddy issues and is looking for a toxic relationship. It’s also about basic stuff like projecting confidence, learning how to converse with girls, learning what girls typically like (read: typically; not always; typically).

But ill ask you the same question: how many times have you cold-approached a man and asked him out on a date?
 
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Never and nor have I had a serious proposition that way. I like a lot of people I know met my husband through friends.
 
Ok, so you’ve never, in your entire life, cold-approached someone and asked them out.

But you think you are qualified to give advice to people about cold-approaching someone and asking them out? Or are you trying to say there is something wrong with cold-approaching?

You know, not all of us have huge circles of friends. Or maybe none of our friends are actively trying to get us involved with their friends.

So is that your advice? Sit around and wait for our friends to set us up? Or should we only date people who are friends of friends? So no online dating then. And no introducing yourself to the pretty girl who sits in the front row. No dancing with a girl at a local rock show and then seeing if a dance can turn into a date.

Even if 50% of marriages started as: friends set us up, or, we were in the same circle of friends… Your advice rules out the other 50% of marriages.
 
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Someone I had never seen before randomly approaching me just to as me for a date would be weird even if he was blindingly attractive and charming. I’d rather be spoken to like a person and asked out when it seemed natural.
 
I don’t know the answer to this. In general I agree with this article It’s Just a Date! - Chastity

We are always telling people to not be afraid to ask another one out, like in the example of the article. In the cafe, smiling or talking to a stranger. That’s totally random. I would like it if someone did approach me at a coffee shop or something and tried to strike up a conversation. It seems that most do not. I have not done it so myself.

But then we are also told not to just approach a total stranger. Because you might be seen as weird. So which is which?

Some people have met as well via the total stranger way. A seatmate on a bus one Friday afternoon, at a jog in the park, at the grocery. in my experience of the people I know though, this is rare.

That’s why the advice to get out more is not very helpful. You could be getting out a lot but if there aren’t meaningful interactions but only low level ones, nothing is going to happen. Most people keep to themselves and the people they already know and would not bother talking to a stranger. And yes, this even applies to things like attending classes or workshops.
 
Do you realize how absolutely useless that advice is?
ConfusedLucy said:
I’d rather be spoken to like a person and asked out when it seemed natural.
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Like stop and re-read this. Spoken to like a person. What does that mean? Is introducing myself “speaking to you like a person”? What is “natural”? How does a guy not be weird if he wants to show interest in a girl who has this opinion?

You see, you have no idea how to get a date. You know how to be asked out on a date. Scratch that. You don’t know. You want it to be “natural” which by definition means there is no intention, it’s spontaneous. It “just happens”. All you know is a vague feeling that has no quantifiable parameters, that a guy who apparently shouldn’t be gauging your interest (that’s the EEEEEEEVIL Game Theory!!!) should eventually just evolve an acquaintanceship into a friendship and into a relationship and never let you feel like any of this had any intention behind it, but was just a natural result of some hidden path you were both treading.

Well, this is where the very real difference between guys and girls comes into play. Most girls can basically just exist, and eventually they will receive interest. Oh sure, they have to look presentable and have a relatively friendly attitude, but they don’t really have to do anything. That’s why the other chick couldn’t understand my using the word: “pursue”. Because it’s a totally foreign concept to her. In her mind, potential romantic interests just happen. “Just be yourself” has meaning to her, because that’s all she has to do. “Just being herself” is enough for her to be taken on dates.

Most guys who just exist… just exist. They don’t receive any interest if they don’t do something. I’m not talking about who “has it harder” or anything like that, I’m just explaining that for most guys, potential romantic interests don’t just happen. If the guy doesn’t pursue, or go after, or approach… basically take action in some way, then nothing happens. Nothing is “natural” with him, because he’s the one who actually has to make the move. Nothing is really “spontaneous” because whether he’s acting on spur of the moment instinct or a semi-scripted game-plan, it still requires intention to act.

“Just being myself” doesn’t mean anything to a guy because he has to “just be himself, and do something.” If he is a passive player then the world just passes him by. Dates only happen when he makes a move. He has to quantify it to some degree or it just won’t ever occur.

So yeah, if you’re wondering why a young man would look at women who give him dating advice and then look away in bewilderment and go look up Game Theory… well it’s because at least the loser PUA womanizer gives him real advice. It might be bad advice, or it might be immoral advice, but at least it’s actually applicable.
 
I hope somebody tells guys soon that when they spout off lingo from the manosphere, they automatically sound like a boy.
 
What I mean is talk to her like you would talk to any person whether or not you are hoping for a date and get to know her.

I do get that it’s difficult when your social life dries up. I’ve really struggled socially as an adult and opportunities to meet new people are few. Online dating works well for some but not others. It’s pretty difficult these days.
 
I’m wondering if you might be able,at some stage ,go on a catholic retreat .Work it in with your break some how.You might have to travel .And I would be so bold as to say to you,yes stick to your ideal catholic woman
who’s faith and standards match your own jdevani 🙂 God bless and all the best.
 
People that tell other people to shut up are not someone people would want to date no matter how much “game” they think they have. That is just really rude and uncalled for. Sorry that was said to you, but we all know it was undeserved.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
We don’t need ‘ technique’. We need genuine. To understand someone, get to know them. Be yourself and listen.
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There’s an essential problem with Game that people who “win” that way have to keep on doing it.

They’re imprisoned by their system.

And that’s especially true if they (EEK!) managed to game somebody into marrying them or try to use game on their wives. I keep an eye on some corners of the Red Pill world, and there’s a lot of complaining from the married guys that it’s exhausting to have to keep gaming their wives.
 
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ConfusedLucy said:
Game theory just makes me roll my eyes, if a guy isn’t a contender to me then no clever game strategy on his part will turn him into one.
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And the crazy thing is that people who do “game” themselves mention that only a vanishingly small percentage of women respond positively to their overtures. The way “game” works (as far as it works) is by approaching hundreds of women. But then PUA types use their experiences with that 1% or 2% (or whatever) to draw conclusions about what 100% of what women want.

That’s nuts.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Men have to figure out how to get women interested in them. Women just have to figure out what guy interests them most.
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I don’t think that’s what dating looks like to women.

And I can speak for myself that I went over and introduced myself to my future husband after a book group.

Being a wallflower doesn’t work for women any better than it works for men.
 
I think the problem arises when people generalize. Men thinking all women respond to this or that kind of personality. It appeals to some, but not all. And as a women, I sometimes cringe at what other women do find appealing.

The bottom line is that people are all different and you just have to keep looking until you find the right person, and that goes for men or women.
 
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