L
LJN21
Guest
I miss spoke.Being overly scrupulous a sin? According to who?
Not a sin, but more along the lines of a fault. It can still be very harmful to ones spirituality.
newadvent.org/cathen/13640a.htm
I miss spoke.Being overly scrupulous a sin? According to who?
Again… try applying your logic to other sins… like, some say the same things about extra marital sex: Its an expression of an emotion through physical language and English words as well… not intended to offend anyone. Just a one night stand involving two people who both understand that… No big deal…I don’t see how this applies in situations where no one is offended or where it is used in an appropriate context. Swearing is a means of communication and a means of expression.
What’s the difference between saying ’ Golly gee or shucks ’ and saying a big F! The point is that the speaker is intending to express dismay and they are making their own choice to decide what is morally right or what is not objectionable.
The speaker by saying “shucks” , according to their moral compass, is better than dropping an F bomb, but either way, they are expressing a negative emotion through the english language and are not intending to offend or insult anyone…
Either way, no big deal…
Ephesians 5:4“Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.”
Ephesians 4:29No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear.
Colossians 3:8But now you must put them all away: 5 anger, fury, malice, slander, and obscene language out of your mouths.
James 3:9-12For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by the human species, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. This need not be so, my brothers. Does a spring gush forth from the same opening both pure and brackish water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, produce olives, or a grapevine figs? Neither can salt water yield fresh.
Look at Kevins post.Again Grace, you have been give 3 sources that say it is not a sin therefor all of your analogy to other sins not not applicable because it ** is not one**. The burden of proof is on you to say it is in fact a sin.
I think Jesus would have healed him by saying, “be healed”. I think it is an example of God working through a man to heal another man (even if it is unusual).And… to the one who used the story of the one out of several millions psychologically challenged , cursing guy.
It serves no example…
Besides… would Jesus have healed a man in this manner? NO. You know it.
We all agree that sex outside of marriage is a sin, while sex inside of marriage is not… Could there be a comparrison? Perhaps profane words in the wrong situation are a sin, while profane words in the right situation are not.Many young women have sex with their boyfriend because they feel sorry for the guy if they dont. That might make them less culpable, but its does not take their sin away… sin needs to be forgiven and repented of.
You haven’t proven it yet.…I do urge everyone to at least admit when something is just not right.
Yep.Okay… so what it comes down to is this.
You don’t see foul language as “intrinsically evil” whereas I do.
Again, that’s great for you, but it doesn’t really help anyone else.If an apologist says that using such words anywhere is okay then I must respectfully disagree. He is not my authority. Even if the Magisterium said otherwise I must follow my conscience…
I felt a little offended at this post, to be honest. Nevertheless, you seem to be saying that you can’t/won’t prove that profanity is intrinsically evil. You are telling me that I will understand if I pray.Caesar…
I almost wanna say: “trust me on this one brother”, but you dont know me. Hopefully you know the Lord…
Do you have a prayer life? Do you study Scripture (eg. Jesus and Paul saying not to lead our brothers to fall by our example)…Do you have an idea about the holiness and purity of Jesus Christ and the calling that is upon your life to follow Him?
Do not answer these questions to me. But just think…
I feel no inclination to logically explain something that pertains to faith and conscience. The Holiness, Purity and Love of Christ is a Mystery… the anti-movement against this Mystery is logic used against the purposes of God.
I can only urge you to go out into nature and pray… look at the creation, at the skies… inside your own heart where you converse with the Heavenly Lover… look at the Cross and try then to explain to HIM all your justification of using profanity.
Then come back and talk to me about it.
I have had such a conversation with Him and it was painful… It matters to Him. Everything does…
Peace to you.
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This AAA question supports my case: Is profanity a mortal sin?------------------------------------------------^
Can you prove that he didn’t?Answer me but one question - and all the logic in the world wont convince me to defend sin with you - :
Would Christ ever use profanity for any purpose? Would He use the f word to reach a sinner?
I really feel a knife in me when I hear you even suggest something like this… to even suggest that Jesus would talk profane or dirty…Can you prove that he didn’t?![]()
Theres a part in that you seem to just gloss over.Ephesians 5:4
“Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.”
Ephesians 4:29
My translation says this:“No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear.”
Colossians 3:8
Again I can think of lots of obscene language that would in fact be wrong that have none of the words you object too.But now you must put them all away: 5 anger, fury, malice, slander, and obscene language out of your mouths.
James 3:9-12
See above.For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by the human species, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. This need not be so, my brothers. Does a spring gush forth from the same opening both pure and brackish water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, produce olives, or a grapevine figs? Neither can salt water yield fresh.
No, cussing in front of Our Lord would be disrespectful. Just like I would not wear a swim suit to mass.Would you curse in front of our Lord Jesus Christ? Does anyone find it acceptable that our Lord should be placed upon a tongue that utters profanities? For me personally, the answer to both of these question is an easy no. Let us then not curse in the presence of our brothers and sister, so that we do not curse in the presence of the Lord within them, and let us not curse so as not to defile the place where we receive our Lord in Holy Communion.
Sorry, but this made me laugh…Again… try applying your logic to other sins…
Sorry… but it’s not. At least not in all circumstances.Sorry… but it is a big deal.
I’m pretty sure we’re not going to care. At all. I think we’ll be far, far more concerned about our real sins than our human imperfections. >> And at the same time, I’m NOT saying that we shouldn’t try to eliminate our imperfections… of course we should, and you’ve got some fine arguments as far as that goes. BUT I’m not about to agree that all imperfections are sins, either.I am pretty sure we will stand infront of the Lord one day and feel really bad about whatever bad word we ever uttered…
No offense, honestly, but I’ve been wondering… were you, by chance, raised as a Protestant?As is written in the Word: Everything that is not of Christ is sin.
There has never been a shadow of a doubt since I met Christ (I mean really met Him)…
Well… apparently not.YOU KNOW IT.
NO. You know it.
I called this one!I am sorry, but sin is never excused… not even to help others.
Answer me but one question - and all the logic in the world wont convince me to defend sin with you…
Well, obviously He wouldn’t have to. And furthermore, since He’s perfect, I can’t exactly see how an imperfection such as “foul language” would be present in Him. BUT IT DOES NOT THEN FOLLOW that “foul language”, at least under the limited conditions that we’ve been talking about, is a sin. It’s not. At the very worst, it’s an imperfection. Not a sin.Would Christ ever use profanity for any purpose? Would He use the f word to reach a sinner?
Sadly, this is a perfect example of What’s-The-Big-Deal-ism. It’s also called relativism. It’s also called justification.You never respond to my points.
If you say Golly Gee, instead of the F word when you stub your toe…your Golly Gee takes on the same meaning as the F word. You are expressing it in order to signal that you are less than pleased.
I don’t see why the F word is a sin for me and Shucks is Ok. If Shucks is what a person uses instead of the F word…the difference is that the universal definition is different, yet one is more socially acceptable than the other…they both are a means of expressing displeasure.
What you are doing is you are creating your very own hierarchy of what is a sin and what is Ok…again, all based on what your social circle deems ok. Maybe to an ultra scrupulous person, maybe saying " shucks ’ is a horrible curse word.
God gave us emotions and if I express my emotions with a curse word…then so be it…I’ve made my bed and do intend on sleeping in it.
Besides, sometimes a carefully placed curse word can make a joke absolutely hysterical.![]()
I’m pretty sure it was a joke. Relax.I really feel a knife in me when I hear you even suggest something like this… to even suggest that Jesus would talk profane or dirty…
We teach children not to cuss, 'cause its not appropriate for children. We also don’t let children play with fire, not because fire is bad but because they are children and do not understand fully the correct uses for it.Sadly, this is a perfect example of What’s-The-Big-Deal-ism. It’s also called relativism. It’s also called justification.
As a priest wrote: “We do no charity when we justify someone in their sin.”
Get over it. The answer is black and white. Profanity is a sin. It is not to be excused, it is not to be justified. If Catholics can teach a five year old not to use bad words and to avoid sin, that still applies when they become adults.
God bless,
Ed
Open the door for the devil and inch and before you know it, everything is OK.
I didn’t say He did use it. If you are going to use “Jesus didn’t do it” as an argument, you need to be able to support that claim (not by proof, but did he say anything definitive about it?). I listed other problem I have with the “Jesus didn’t do it” argument.I really feel a knife in me when I hear you even suggest something like this… to even suggest that Jesus would talk profane or dirty…
See LJN21’s post. I have also argued that words themselves cannot be intrinsically evil.You say that I havent proven that foul talk is intricically evil… read the post of Kevin for references from the Bible and say that such is neutral… You cannot.
Catholic apologists seem to support me. The burden of proof is on you.And you havent proven anything your self.
Many people also agree with it. What does that prove?Your analysis is based on your logic… many people here disagree with the results of that logic.
We haven’t even discussed what sin is. We have been discussing whether profanity is intrinsically evil.As for you and me: we simply disagree on what sin is… and it can’t be solved. Because human knowlege is nothing compared to God’s wisdom.
I’m sorry if you have been feeling indignated at what I’m saying. I’m in this discussion to seek the truth of the matter. You are quite set in your opinion, but you have done nothing substantial to prove it.We only end up feeling indignated at what the other is saying which is the beginning of debate that always destroy the peace… and I dont want to debate you.
Can you prove it? Can you refute my arguments?Get over it. The answer is black and white. Profanity is a sin.
Well, sadly, what I think we’re dealing with here is the result of a slightly-too-scrupulous conscience, in which no distinction is being made between sins that violate the moral law, and imperfections (of whatever magnitude) that are not sins.Sadly, this is a perfect example of What’s-The-Big-Deal-ism. It’s also called relativism. It’s also called justification.
No, it is not black and white. For one, I have yet to see an actual Catholic apologist defending your position. And for two, not everything is black and white, as you seem to love to say. Most things in the moral code are, yes, but not all. This has nothing to do with relativism, and everything to do with the fact that we are dealing with some grey area here, a not-very-well-defined issue over which even faithful Catholics disagree, whether you want to admit it or not.Get over it. The answer is black and white. Profanity is a sin.
If it’s an imperfection, not a sin, then yes, it can be excused and justified, up to a certain point.It is not to be excused, it is not to be justified.
Your talking about your personal moral code, your personal societal preferences…neither of which speaks of sin.As a person who has heard some of the most exquisite cussing in the English, French, and German languages and who was asked at age 28 when I had been in the Navy because my mates thought I could swear like a sailor, I have but one more question and then a statement.
If the kind of language in question is no big deal, why is it considered necessary to limit children’s exposure to and use of it?
I am not perfect, but I have cleaned up my act considerably. I find it difficult to respect and think highly of persons whose every other word is a curse, an obscenity. or some kind of scatological expression. They come across as crude, and while they may be highly intelligent, somewhat deficient in what it takes to be a real Mensch. As far as it being a serious sin, sometimes it certainly is and sometimes ranges to merely being left wanting for a better word, i.e. limited vocabulary. Despite my past bad habit in this regard, today I actually cringe when I hear it and would have to say most if not all those I hear are mediocre performers when it comes to swearing; absolute lack of creativity…