What's with all the anti women threads recently??

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Nimzovik said:
When I see poor CAF dads faced with such issues as this thread,

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=686543

I truly do see the need to declare exactly what radicals Modern Day Feminists are. I do truly see the need for Catholics to start their **own **feminism.
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They already have!!! Thats the whole freaking point that so many posters on this thread are trying to make clear to you because you seem to try and lump all feminists together in the same bucket. So you are hardly saying anything new or exciting by saying that the Catholic feminism is incompatible with radical feminism, or that Catholics should not ascribe to radical feminism but embrace feminism as expressed by the teachings of the Church. I’m sorry to break it to you, but most people here are already well aware of this. After all, the only person on this thread that has espoused any ideas related to a feminism that is contrary to the Church is, surprise surprise, not a Catholic. You are not really changing people’s minds by your inflammatory attitude, you are just making people feel less like listening to anything that have to say.
 
Protip: Adding random bolding to your posts does not make your argument more persuasive or cogent.
 
thewanderer said:
1)Sorry to burst your bubble, but Feminism does not equal NOW or radical feminism of any sort. Why in the world do you think people call it radical feminism! Because it is something different than feminism in and of itself. 2) Feminism is simly speaking the movement for the recognition of the equality between men and women. Using this title I am very proud to call myself a feminist and I do not appreciate any of your claims that doing so is somehow unimaginable for a real Cathollic. **3)As others have pointed out, Pope John Paul II himself identified himself as feminist. **There is nothing wrong with this label. Sure, its important to explain what you think is entailed in the equality of men and women, but ultimately anyone who argues as a feminist will come back to this basic principle, that men and women are equal and should be treated as such. This principle happens to be in line with Church teaching, as evidenced again by JP II’s willingness to associate himself with the label ‘feminist’. In fact, there is a very good reason for Catholics calling themselves feminist and explaining what they mean by it. To help others realize that we do recognize the equality of men and women, but in doing so we also recognize that there are general differences between them which must be taken into account. In other words, using this word is an excellent evangelization word to help show others what the true relation of the genders are to each other.

So no, I feel no need to call myself a “marian feminist”. I have often in the past used the phrase “true feminist” to make people aware that I did not include myself with the radical feminist groups that exist, and then explained what I meant by that. This is a much better way to approach it than by labeling oneself as a marian feminist anyway because people who do not believe your religion are not going to change their opinion just because your religion says so. Instead you need to help explain to them through reason based on the world they see around them using principles that you both accept how what you believe is actually true. Using the term feminist, or true feminist, and explaining what you mean by this is conducive to this kind of evangelization. So back off and stop claiming that Catholics are wrong to identify as such.
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Bold Lettering mine: Numerals mine:
  1. uh… yah… that is exactly *my *point.
  2. So. That is your definition of Feminism is it? Good for you. Hmmmmmm … It certainly is not the definition of Feminism as propagated by the Popular Media though now is it?:cool:
  3. Now this is truly amusing. Ok now pay attention. Here it comes. it’s gonna be quick so look for it- Yes. ! Apparently JPII did refer to himself as a Feminist Pope.
    Now here it comes!! If modern Day Feminsts described themselves as a Feminists in the exact same way and context of the Christian Perspective as JPII did, then even I too would be a feminist! 😉
Yeah! I just do not think that Modern Day Feminists like Sebellius and Pelosi are going to just rush right out and do that now are they? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

nuff said.
 
Additional protip: Unnecessary and out of place italicization is also not particularly helpful when trying to get your points across to fellow CAF posters.
 
quote=thewanderer;9425736]They already have!!! Thats the whole freaking point that so many posters on this thread are trying to make clear to you because you seem to try and lump all feminists together in the same bucket. So you are hardly saying anything new or exciting by saying that the Catholic feminism is incompatible with radical feminism, or that Catholics should not ascribe to radical feminism but embrace feminism as expressed by the teachings of the Church. I’m sorry to break it to you, but most people here are already well aware of this. After all, the only person on this thread that has espoused any ideas related to a feminism that is contrary to the Church is, surprise surprise, not a Catholic. You are not really changing people’s minds by your inflammatory attitude, you are just making people feel less like listening to anything that have to say.

Bold Lettering mine:

Indeed. As does often the media when it endeavors to manuever to promote an agenda like the HHS mandate. Can this seriously be denied?

Why not make the distinction? Why **not **advocate for women under the banner of Catholicism as opposed to secularism? 🤷
 
Nimzovik said:
Bold Lettering mine: Numerals mine:
  1. uh… yah… that is exactly *my *point.
  2. So. That is your definition of Feminism is it? Good for you. Hmmmmmm … It certainly is not the definition of Feminism as propagated by the Popular Media though now is it?:cool:
  3. Now this is truly amusing. Ok now pay attention. Here it comes. it’s gonna be quick so look for it- Yes. ! Apparently JPII did refer to himself as a Feminist Pope.
    Now here it comes!! If modern Day Feminsts described themselves as a Feminists in the exact same way and context of the Christian Perspective as JPII did, then even I too would be a feminist! 😉
Yeah! I just do not think that Modern Day Feminists like Sebellius and Pelosi are going to just rush right out and do that now are they? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

nuff said.
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I figured as much, yes. You are trying to make a point that pretty much everyone already holds, and whenever people try to show you that the position you already apparantly hold is correct you ignore what they are saying, and instead reply to something that they are not actually saying. In which case you come across as if you are denying the very position which you now claim to hold. 🤷

My point is you’ve been arguing for the most part in this thread with your own made up ideas of what people have been saying while ignoring what they are actually saying. Like I said, this is not going to help anybody understand things the correct way, its simply gonna get people irritated, and for the most part its gonna get people **who already agree with you **irritated, because you are completely ignoring what they are saying and pretending they are saying all sorts of stuff that they aren’t.
 
Oh, and fyi, birth control does not equal abortion.

Some forms of birth control can at times act as an abortificiant, but there are many forms of birth control which, while still being immoral for preventing pregnancy, are in no way abortificiant. Please actually understand what is meant by words before you equate them.
 
Nimzovik said:
quote=thewanderer;9425736]They already have!!! Thats the whole freaking point that so many posters on this thread are trying to make clear to you because you seem to try and lump all feminists together in the same bucket. So you are hardly saying anything new or exciting by saying that the Catholic feminism is incompatible with radical feminism, or that Catholics should not ascribe to radical feminism but embrace feminism as expressed by the teachings of the Church. I’m sorry to break it to you, but most people here are already well aware of this. After all, the only person on this thread that has espoused any ideas related to a feminism that is contrary to the Church is, surprise surprise, not a Catholic. You are not really changing people’s minds by your inflammatory attitude, you are just making people feel less like listening to anything that have to say.
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Bold Lettering mine:

Indeed. As does often the media when it endeavors to manuever to promote an agenda like the HHS mandate. Can this seriously be denied?

Why not make the distinction? Why **not **advocate for women under the banner of Catholicism as opposed to secularism? 🤷

Did I ever make the claim that one should make no distinction? No. In fact if you read what I actually wrote you will see that I make quite a distinction myself. First I make the distinction between radical feminism and feminism. Then I also go on to add that when describing what I mean by feminism I often call it “true feminism” in order to distinguish it from what I consider to be false feminism, as in not actually beneficial for women or society. My point is that we should make such a distinction using words that will imply to others a reasoned argument for our opinion (which we will still also need to be able to back up) than to use a word which will imply that our opinions are solely based on faith and so could prejudice some people against what we have to say before we even begin to explain oursselves to them. So yes, make a distinction, but make it in the way that will best help you explain your position to others. 🤷
 
thewanderer said:
They already have!!! Thats the whole freaking point that so many posters on this thread are trying to make clear to you because you seem to try and lump all feminists together in the same bucket. So you are hardly saying anything new or exciting by saying that the Catholic feminism is incompatible with radical feminism, or that Catholics should not ascribe to radical feminism but embrace feminism as expressed by the teachings of the Church. I’m sorry to break it to you, but most people here are already well aware of this. After all, the only person on this thread that has espoused any ideas related to a feminism that is contrary to the Church is, surprise surprise, not a Catholic. You are not really changing people’s minds by your inflammatory attitude, you are just making people feel less like listening to anything that have to say.
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In my defense I am honest about my beliefs but out of respect for the fact that this is a Catholic forum I do have restraint. I really only defended Sanger on historical inaccuracies. And I have had a lot of incorrect assumptions made about my beliefs that I have let go because A. Defending myself wouldn’t do any good, it would just fan the flames, and B. I don’t want to fall in to the trap of being uncharitable. I am also one of the people on here that is saying that just like any other group of people feminists cannot and should not all be lumped together.
 
Crescentinus said:
I am sick and tired of how radical feminism demonizes masculinity as well as genuine femininity.
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I could not a agree with this more. 👍 Radical Feminism has turned something genuine (general equiality among men and women) into a dog and pony show and vie for political power.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
In my defense I am honest about my beliefs but out of respect for the fact that this is a Catholic forum I do have restraint. I really only defended Sanger on historical inaccuracies. And I have had a lot of incorrect assumptions made about my beliefs that I have let go because A. Defending myself wouldn’t do any good, it would just fan the flames, and B. I don’t want to fall in to the trap of being uncharitable. I am also one of the people on here that is saying that just like any other group of people feminists cannot and should not all be lumped together.
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Don’t worry, I was not assuming that you hold every belief you have been accused of on this thread. I have also in the past been impressed by how respectful you have been in other threads even when disagreeing with others. My point is more to show Nimzovik that he is arguing with strawmen of his own construction. 🤷
 
thewanderer said:
Don’t worry, I was not assuming that you hold every beelief you have been accused of on this thread. My point is more to show Nimzovik that he is arguing with strawmen of his own construction. 🤷
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Thank you for the benefit of the doubt.

Even crazy, bra burning radical feminists like me have complex thoughts and ideas on important social issues that can’t be summed up in one incoherent sentence.
 
thewanderer said:
I figured as much, yes. You are trying to make a point that pretty much everyone already holds, and whenever people try to show you that the position you already apparantly hold is correct you ignore what they are saying, and instead reply to something that they are not actually saying. In which case you come across as if you are denying the very position which you now claim to hold. 🤷

My point is you’ve been arguing for the most part in this thread with your own made up ideas of what people have been saying while ignoring what they are actually saying. Like I said, this is not going to help anybody understand things the correct way, its simply gonna get people irritated, and for the most part its gonna get people **who already agree with you **irritated, because you are completely ignoring what they are saying and pretending they are saying all sorts of stuff that they aren’t.
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Ok. I accept this as your opinion.
 
thewanderer said:
Bold Lettering mine:

Indeed. As does often the media when it endeavors to manuever to promote an agenda like the HHS mandate. Can this seriously be denied?

Why not make the distinction? Why **not **advocate for women under the banner of Catholicism as opposed to secularism? 🤷
Click to expand...
1)Did I ever make the claim that one should make no distinction? No. In fact if you read what I actually wrote you will see that I make quite a distinction myself. First I make the distinction between radical feminism and feminism. Then I also go on to add that when describing what I mean by feminism I often call it “true feminism” in order to distinguish it from what I consider to be false feminism, as in not actually beneficial for women or society. My point is that we should make such a distinction using words that will imply to others a reasoned argument for our opinion (which we will still also need to be able to back up) 2**)** than to use a word which will imply that our opinions are solely based on faith and so could prejudice some people against what we have to say before we even begin to explain oursselves to them. So yes, make a distinction, but make it in the way that will best help you explain your position to others. 🤷

Bold Lettering mine: Numerals Mine:

1) No, you, have not . Others have however.

2)There** is** merit to this idea. One may indeed reach a different audience with this approach. However I assert that my fundamental concept, that the very term Feminism, certainly, in the ‘Public Perception Consciousness ,’ does indeed carry with it certain negative by Catholic Standards, connotations. This is what I am endeavoring to address. I do *not *have the complete answer here. I am simply trying to get people to think about this however.

Then of course there is the implied exclusionary nature of the term Feminism that is off putting to many. How to address that?
 
ShanaA1984 said:
I could not a agree with this more. 👍 Radical Feminism has turned something genuine (general equiality among men and women) into a dog and pony show and vie for political power.
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Yes. Quite right. And it is this very mechanism that delineates what I am saying about the term Feminism. That all too often the term Radical is almost a sublininal knee jerk response when the term Feminsm is employed. And no, not just by me either.

So I ask. Is it not time for a change?
 
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