Do people seem to find you and talk about special needs children? Do you seem to be a magnet for those with similar issues? It’s kind of the same thing…people see us with a bunch of kids and also recognize our willingness to listen. They talk because we listen. When someone is hurting, they tend to talk. Sometimes it’s in anger, sometimes it’s in grief. Either way, I listen and sometimes I can help…
It may not be your way, or the way of your people
but there is nothing inherently wrong with it at all. People discuss these things all the time amongst themselves, and see no problem with it whatsoever. But it is not a problem to avoid such conversations either, if they make you uncomfortable. I get uncomfortable talking about politics and quickly change the subject, but I never interrupt if someone wants to talk about family planning.That’s a good analogy.
Well then you misunderstood what I said. And if you had read what I posted you probably could have realized that without me explaining further. But you seem to always want to argue with me regardless of the topic and honestly I’m tired of it. You quite often accuse me of things I haven’t said and often you try to make yourself the subject of my posts for no reason whatsoever. Like I said in the quote you just posted of mine most of the families I know are contracepting. That is what I said. That is what I meant. Sorry you don’t like that.
Just curious, but do you think that parents would openly want the DRE to know that they are going against Church teachings, and setting that example or teaching their children to do so?
Thank you for the gracious response. I had no idea this was such a hot topic. I sincerely hope I haven’t created hard feelings for anyone on this topic an I thank all of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut and responses.Is Mary Gail’s story hearsay as well?
now back to the issue of the OP
A sister in Christ who is contemplating entering our Church family asked a question, “where are all the children?” We have all given many reasons as to why she didn’t see a lot of kids in the pew, and all are very valid reasons. But having a “new comer” enter in the church and ask the obvious question is kind of refreshing. It reminds me of a close knit family that doesn’t want to admit that Uncle Joe is drinking too much. Everyone else is fine in the family, we just don’t want to admit that poor Uncle Joe has a problem. It might reflect badly on us. “I had a glass of wine! My breath smells like alcohol, but I don’t have a problem!” This is what we are doing when we pipe up with all these anecdotal stories. Uncle Joe has a problem! We have sisters and brothers in the Church with problems! We can’t help them until we admit that some of us have problems…its called sin. We all have sin. That’s why we go to confession, thanks be to God.
I am very thankful for the OP for bringing up this issue. We need to open our eyes and see what is before us. We need to help the young married couples and the growing families to know and accept Churchh teaching. Many of us do Love and accept the teachings with full and (not so full) open arms. Others need help in holding their arms up (even Moses needed Aaron to hold his arms up.)
OK, you missed my point.
Why do you think I missed your point?OK, you missed my point.
My point is…I am AROUND and INTERACTING with lots of families, and I’ve never heard anyone going on about it.
I’m out. This discussion has surpassed it’s usefulness.
No one is being “chastised”. The whole theme of the thread is trying to determine the percentage of Catholics that are faithful to the teachings of the Church. Those who are against the Church teachings on contraception would like us to believe that upwards of 90% of Catholics use contraception, in order to make us think we are all a bunch of backward freaks. They cite surveys that suggest those percentages, but lots of people argue that those surveys are flawed because firstly, they collect data from anyone who self-identifies as Catholic, regardless of whether or not they attend Mass or participate in the Church in any significant way, and secondly, because they ask whether the individual has ever used contraception, not whether they are currently using or whether or not they believe it is sinful. Anecdotal evidence is nice, but I would also like to see some hard data on what percentage of practicing, married Catholics currently use contraception. I suspect it would be much lower than what is reported.Is Mary Gail’s story hearsay as well?
Actually, both examples are what we call anecdotal evidence. It’s not reliable evidence for either side, but both exemplifies the possibilities that exist for smaller family size. Hear say has to do with a a court of laws and what is permmissible as evidence. Court standards aren’t in place here, are they?
(Sorry for quoting you Mary Gail, but one person is getting chastised for re-telling stories divulged to her, but not everyone here is held to the same standard.)
now back to the issue of the OP
A sister in Christ who is contemplating entering our Church family asked a question, “where are all the children?” We have all given many reasons as to why she didn’t see a lot of kids in the pew, and all are very valid reasons. But having a “new comer” enter in the church and ask the obvious question is kind of refreshing. It reminds me of a close knit family that doesn’t want to admit that Uncle Joe is drinking too much. Everyone else is fine in the family, we just don’t want to admit that poor Uncle Joe has a problem. It might reflect badly on us. “I had a glass of wine! My breath smells like alcohol, but I don’t have a problem!” This is what we are doing when we pipe up with all these anecdotal stories. Uncle Joe has a problem! We have sisters and brothers in the Church with problems! We can’t help them until we admit that some of us have problems…its called sin. We all have sin. That’s why we go to confession, thanks be to God.
I am very thankful for the OP for bringing up this issue. We need to open our eyes and see what is before us. We need to help the young married couples and the growing families to know and accept Churchh teaching. Many of us do Love and accept the teachings with full and (not so full
By all accounts, most Catholics reject the Catholic Church’s teaching on ABC. God bless you and your large brood!
Wow, “hassle”, “hordes”, tell us what you really think about more than a couple kids. What you call a “hassle” my wife and I call blessing. What you call a “horde” I call my family. Yes a large family can be a challenge, but I’ll trade all the “hassle” my “horde” causes for one minute of 14 arms welcoming me home.
Don’t feel bad. Anytime the subject of large families comes up people start to bristle. You want to see a real fight ask for a list of valid reasons to postpone having kids.
That’s quite the generalization!
My experience is totally opposite to yours. I spent some of my life overseas in Thailand, Korea, and Japan and the priests there do not hesitate to say in their homilies on the sinfulness of ABC, abortion, and premarital sex. Although the number of Catholics in those countries are quite small the ones I have met are well catechized.
You have to understand that I’m in Canada, where in response to Humanae Vitae the Bishops issued the “Winnipeg Statement.” This document has never been revoked and many priests still follow what it said.
Yeah, when I was a kid, we thought nothing of driving to Branson with four kids across the backseat, one in mom’s lap, and another sitting on a towel on the parking break. Society’s gotten a lot fussier about things like that. Now, kids have to be in an enormous safety seat until they are undergraduates and most sedans seem to be purposefully designed to fit no more than two of those. We currently have two kids, and are in “poverty diet mode” trying to save money for a vehicle that we can legally transport three or more kids to the hospital, library, school, or grocery store in. And it’s true that having more than two under school age does considerably limit your childcare opportunities, unless you want to spend your life driving too and fro dropping off and picking up. My siblings were fairly spread out, so I guess the parents didn’t have to deal with that too much and we always used the cheese bus to get to school. Come to think of it, with the youngest kids, they never had to worry about “date night” sitters, because they could just decree that one of the older kids was going to babysit.
When getting three or four babies from a car to the grocery store in order to pick up a loaf of bread starts to look like one of those logic puzzles where you are trying to get a fox, a chicken, and a bag of grain across the river in one boat, I think, objectively speaking that constitutes a “hassle”. Whether that “hassle” is worth it or not is up to the individual. I don’t think its fair to characterize parents who aren’t up to that particular challenge as “selfish”, which is the word you used, anymore than it’s fair to call those who are up to it “outliers” or “insane”, which were not words used by the previous poster.
