Where I struggle with abortion

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PJH_74 said:
I believe these situations to be ones where other people’s opinions, even the most morally correct ones, need to be held silent and the choice supported; especially by those who could never be in that situation.
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This is a discussion forum for sharing opinions. It’s wrong to tell people their opinions “need to be held silent” here as it goes against the whole purpose of the forum. As long as their opinion doesn’t violate the forum TOS, they’re welcome to post it here. You don’t have a right to tell anyone to stay silent unless, like I said, it’s a TOS violation.
 
YourNameHere said:
… I realize that the child is innocent, …
Let me say that I do not favor abortion, …
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Catechism
1853 A good intention (for example, that of helping one’s neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving). 39
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Tis_Bearself said:
This is a discussion forum for sharing opinions. It’s wrong to tell people their opinions “need to be held silent” here as it goes against the whole purpose of the forum. As long as their opinion doesn’t violate the forum TOS
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Ah…this the issue. I’ve got no problems with people giving their opinions here, geez I certainly have mine. The opinion I have is that I see room for compassion and nonjudgmental responses to an actual woman trying to deal with such situations. She has so much to go through and I’m trying to draw some parallels outside abortion that involve similar choices where we honor or don’t judge the person.

Honestly this is the heart of what I wanted to say, but it got wrapped up with some of my own life experience I don’t feel comfortable discussing here and the replies I was getting. So yes I got defensive and offensive. That’s my part to own. Please discuss on.
 
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YourNameHere said:
I would support a female family member who had been raped if she chose to have an abortion. If she chose to have the child I would suggest that she give the child up for adoption. If for whatever reason she chose to keep the child that would be her decision. I would support her decision, but I would NEVER accept the child as family.
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This tells many of us all we need to know about you. There is no dispute about rape being a crime of violence, I’m positive all here would agree with that. By saying you could NEVER accept that child as a human being, as a child of God, as part of it’s mother, is basically you saying, “I get to determine the value of life based on that life’s means of conception”. Isn’t that God’s job?
 
I said, I could never accept the child as a family member. I never said the child was not a human being. My suggestion was that if this were to happen to a female in my family, that she would put the child up for adoption. Though the child is question is innocent, the act that precipitated the child’s birth was not. If the child were to remain in the family, the child would be a constant reminder of the act.
All things considered, would it not be better for the child to have a new life with a new family? There are many couples in this world who are physically unable to have a baby. This would help them. Something positive would come from the original act.
 
I do not favor abortion.
All I have said is that a child conceived through rape would be better off being put up for adoption.
Something good coming from a violent act.
 
Someone may say this same thing and insert “where I struggle with __________ is ________” insert some current faddish issue of morality and some bad subjective and emotive “reasoning” to supposedly support why you struggle.

You have to acquiesce to a higher power at some point and give into the idea that what you think is not necessarily truth. It really doesn’t matter if you struggle with it. Killing is wrong, the Lord says so, end of story. The Bishops say don’t vote for pro abortion politicians because you cooperate with the evil. “There is a way that seems right to man but its end is the way of death.” Psalm 14:12

How you feel is irrelevant. If you cannot realize that then no one will convince you.
 
YourNameHere said:
All things considered, would it not be better for the child to have a new life with a new family? There are many couples in this world who are physically unable to have a baby. This would help them. Something positive would come from the original act.
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In concept I agree. But as I said earlier, I personally saw the raw emotion of someone that was the result of exactly this situation. The issue was clearly handed in a poor way for at least her. I don’t know the answer for such a situation, closing the door and throwing away the key is not one. This all presupposes the child will never look for his or her roots only to discover a nasty reality. I’d suppose you have to introduce that reality slowly and as positively as possible. But I can’t even imagine what it’s like to know you are a result of a violent crime and know that you represent possibly the most ugly and painful event in your mother’s life.
 
In a rare decision forced between a mother’s life and a child’s life, it is permissible to save the mother’s life (or the child’s life).

Rape is never going to be easy and should never be easy, because it’s equivocal to murder. There’s a reason it carried a death sentence in the Old Testament. It’s on topics like these that we have to remember that the intellect is superior to the emotions. You can’t murder somebody else because somebody else did something horrible also. It doesn’t work like that and it never could work like that. You just have to provide whatever prayers & support & assistance you can to get women and children through it.

Peace.
 
YourNameHere said:
All I have said is that a child conceived through rape would be better off being put up for adoption.
Something good coming from a violent act.
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The baby is “something good” regardless of the type of act it came from.
The baby, a human life, is ALWAYS “something good”.
If you could not accept it into your family for whatever reason, then that would be your human weakness to discuss with God and then try to do the right thing for baby in view of your own weakness. And in most circumstances, it would be the baby’s mother’s decision to make, unless she is somehow unable to think for herself due to trauma or mental disability.
But the baby would be equally “something good” whether it stayed in your family or went to an adoptive family.
 
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Um no it’s not permissible according to the church’s teaching. What religion are you? Or is that Pope TK421’s teaching?
 
He’s probably referring to the situation where the mother has some medical condition and could accept treatment for it that has the side effect of killing the baby, though she couldn’t accept treatment that directly killed the baby. Or the mother could choose to go without treatment in hopes of preserving the baby’s life, though she might die.
 
In many ways it is best if the child can stay with their natural mother. The child has a right to his or her natural parents, sometimes circumstances or the parents own actions deny the child his or her parents. In which case adoptive parents are truly gifts from God. Adoption is wonderful when it is truly necessary.

But I would think a child of rape would especially find comfort in knowing his or her mother and the mother’s family loved and embraced them. It will help them deal with the issues of their father’s actions.

Part of what is important here is adult wants (including comfort) come second to children’s needs (a family and stability). To send the child away merely because you can’t handle a reminder of a violent act seems cruel, to be frank.
 
It’s my understanding that the Church position is not limited to “tubal pregnancy” only.
@1ke @TheLittleLady can you weigh in please?
 
The end doesn’t justify the means. Ever. No matter what emotional, relativistic reasining you apply. A life is a life—an innocent human being deserves the right to live no matter how she came to be. An abortion only adds an additional crime and wound to an already terrible situation.

Who’s your higher power? Yourself? Because by deciding when it is permissible to end life, you take moral authority unto your hands. You decide that MAN decides. So this life or death reasoning could be applied to all of human life.

An old woman is a burden to her daughter and causes emotional and mental problems? Or costs the gov’t too much money? Kill her.

I’m no longer able to offer a good life to my baby because I’m emotionally disturbed? I have primacy and I decide: kill her.

A down’s syndrome man offers nothing to society and isn’t useful? Kill him.

You see this reasoning flies in the face of the basic right to life. Nonsensical.

The issue at hand is RIGHT and WRONG. All actions are one or the other. There’s no gray area. Abortion kills someone and is wrong in every circumstance.
 
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Can you please quote the part where it says this applies to “tubal pregnancies” only, as you claimed?
That is the only issue in question.
Thanks.

Edited to add, the part about “induction of labor” clearly doesn’t apply to tubal pregnancies.
 
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