Where is the Catholic outrage over recent American immigration policies?

[otjm]

I am all for justice. I am also for personal responsibility of the parents who choose to violate immigration law and sneak over the border with their children. I seriously doubt there are many sneaking over the border who do not realize they are risking deportation if caught - it isn’t rocket science, and we have been deporting for decades.

It is amazing - or perhaps it isn’t, if one is intellectually honest - that there was nary a peep when the Obama administration did exactly the same thing. But since the mainstream lapdogs clearly could see no evil, they did not report the matter and seek to “raise the conscience” of us poor deplorables as to how terrible the administration was.

 

[phil19034]

Yes … a port of massive legal immigration (thousands and thoussnds… tens of thousands)at a time of low technology and far less resources. Now the richest, most privileged nation in the history of the world can’t accommodate the least among us… pretty gross

I have not read anyone here who is against immigration. But we just want it to be legal, without people trying to illegally sneak across the boarder for many reasons.

And our laws need to be updated.

They were written for another age, where immigration was crossing the oceans, and enter via a seaport or airport. Not walking across the Rio Grande without identification papers.

 

[Augustinian]

Restore it to what? Something different from the values it was founded on?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Not on Cruciferi’s America

Ms. Lazarus’ poem isn’t federal law.

When my grandfather came to the United States, the nation was in need of men with strong backs interested in ground floor opportunities in the field of coal excavation and transportation.

America in 2018, over a hundred years since, has plenty of people with strong backs for those kinds of hard labor jobs we have available. No need for immigrants for those kinds of work.

America needs people with technical skills and/or capital to invest. A lot of immigrants from Asia meet that criteria.

Further, when my grandfather came, he was vetted at Ellis Island. If the staff there determined he was unable to work, or had TB or VD, or was a moral degenerate or a criminal, he wouldn’t have been allowed in.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Many come in and claim the children are theirs. Agents then find out they are not. They know how to work the system.

Source? Fox News? Trump?

 

[Theo520]

I’m not conflating the issues… read my posts… I’m advocating for fixing the process. Processing these refuges should be at least as easy as it was 100+ years ago when we processed thousands and thousands of immigrants. With advancements we’ve made it should be easier, not harder.

I have read your posts and you are conflating the issues,

• you talk of our history of legal immigration and pretend that it’s the same as illegal immigration
• you indicate your opponents in the debate are against immigration in general, when they only oppose illegal immigration.

Nothing is broken with the current system, except the borders. There is just more demand than our quotas. There will always be more demand than places, that’s not a problem. Mass unlimited legal immigration would hurt our poor people the most, we need quotas.

 

[phil19034]

You do know that some of that “massive immigration” was solely to build the US population, correct? No need to rose-color it by claiming the US government was altruistic in its motives.

True… and we made it very easy (relatively) for Europeans to enter via Ellis Island, but it was very strict for Asians to enter via Angel Island in San Fran.

 

[otjm]

No. that is simply the truth - not that the mainline press would report it.

I practiced law - the issue about asylum is correct.

And the same thing happens when some dipwad citizen commits a crime and they are a sole parent, or where the husband and wife are caught in a criminal sweep - the kids are removed. And that goes back decades upon decades.

Oh - and the Obama administration separated kids and parents; but the media? Not a peep.

 

[Theo2]

I’m outraged. Why do we have so many families sneaking
into the US? What do you want to happen to these families?

I would like to hear alternatives.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

It always amazes me that people don’t think. So let’s try it.

OK, Trump wants to “re-negotiate” NAFTA and stick it to Mexico with new tariffs. “America First,” right? Terrific. So then Mexico’s unemployment goes up. Mexicans want to emigrate to the US…to get new jobs. But hey! Here’s an idea! What if we tried to make “Mexico Great Again” and supported their economy more! More jobs! better jobs! Fewer Mexicans trying to emigrate to the US! Win win!

Same with El Salvador (6.4 million people), Honduras, (8 million), Guatamala (17 million). These are not huge countries. Why can’t the US help with policing to get rid of the gangs, offer free trade areas to provide more and better jobs, etc. etc. If there’s no reason to come to the US, they won’t come. Simple.

And if you don’t like that idea (“too expensive” – as if the current system is free) then how about this one: prosecute the employers of illegal immigrants. $10,000 fine for the first conviction, $25,000 for the second, $50,000 for the third. See how many employers suddenly get their act together. But this will never happen because employers (usually good solid Republicans) are benefiting from the labor of illegal immigrants–they’re cheaper, don’t join unions, don’t make trouble, and don’t ask for their rights. What a wonderful country!

But as with all these issues, people are all worked up about the symptoms of problems. How about working on the causes of the problems?

 

[phil19034]

It always amazes me that people don’t think. So let’s try it.

OK, Trump wants to “re-negotiate” NAFTA and stick it to Mexico with new tariffs. “America First,” right? Terrific. So then Mexico’s unemployment goes up. Mexicans want to emigrate to the US…to get new jobs. But hey! Here’s an idea! What if we tried to make “Mexico Great Again” and supported their economy more! More jobs! better jobs! Fewer Mexicans trying to emigrate to the US! Win win!

Same with El Salvador (6.4 million people), Honduras, (8 million), Guatamala (17 million). These are not huge countries. Why can’t the US help with policing to get rid of the gangs, offer free trade areas to provide more and better jobs, etc. etc. If there’s no reason to come to the US, they won’t come. Simple.

And if you don’t like that idea (“too expensive” – as if the current system is free) then how about this one: prosecute the employers of illegal immigrants. $10,000 fine for the first conviction, $25,000 for the second, $50,000 for the third. See how many employers suddenly get their act together. But this will never happen because employers (usually good solid Republicans) are benefiting from the labor of illegal immigrants–they’re cheaper, don’t join unions, don’t make trouble, and don’t ask for their rights. What a wonderful country!

But as with all these issues, people are all worked up about the symptoms of problems. How about working on the causes of the problems?

I was really liking your post until you typed:

“But this will never happen because employers (usually good solid Republicans) are benefiting from the labor of illegal immigrants–they’re cheaper, don’t join unions, don’t make trouble, and don’t ask for their rights.”

 

[Erikaspirit16]

And the same thing happens when some dipwad citizen commits a crime and they are a sole parent, or where the husband and wife are caught in a criminal sweep - the kids are removed.

Really? For jaywalking? For littering?

Let’s actually take a look at the law:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Ooooowwww…a $50 fine!!! Sounds like a speeding ticket to me.

 

[Cruciferi]

Further, when my grandfather came, he was vetted at Ellis Island. If the staff there determined he was unable to work, or had TB or VD, or was a moral degenerate or a criminal, he wouldn’t have been allowed in.

How judgmental of them!

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I was really liking your post until you typed:

“But this will never happen because employers (usually good solid Republicans) are benefiting from the labor of illegal immigrants–they’re cheaper, don’t join unions, don’t make trouble, and don’t ask for their rights.”

And why is this putting you off? Who owns those construction companies, restaurants, landscaping services, etc.?

 

[Cruciferi]

Purification of the Catholic Church? Spirituality

 

[Erikaspirit16]

LA Times, March 20, 2017 points out that although Trump talks constantly about “illegal immigrants” we haven’t heard a peep from him about the employers who hire them. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigration-employers-20170320-story.html

“In fiscal years 2009 through 2016, immigration officials deported more than 2.5 million people. During that same time, officials arrested 1,337 managers of businesses on charges that included illegal hiring, tax evasion and money laundering.”

So. 1337 “arrested” (not “charged” or “convicted” mind you) in 8 years. That’s 167 a year. Does that sound about right to everyone? Is that going to deter employers?

and…

“But to win the support of industry, including the powerful U.S. Chamber of Commerce and agricultural delegations from the Midwest, the employer sanctions were watered down, said Peter Brownell, research director for the Center on Policy Initiatives in San Diego, who has studied the issue.”
phil19034–does “US Chamber of Commerce” and “agricultural delegations from the Midwest” sound like Democratic lobbyists to you? Sounds pretty Republican to me!

Want to eliminate illegal immigration? Easy. Just eliminate the ability of illegal immigrants to get jobs.

 

[Pup7]

True… and we made it very easy (relatively) for Europeans to enter via Ellis Island, but it was very strict for Asians to enter via Angel Island in San Fran.

Yes. But there’s that pesky 19th century filter.

You do realize that particular prejudice was not confined to the US, I hope.

That doesn’t make it right - just that the time period made things different. People weren’t exactly letting Africans in anywhere in droves either - unless it was to build the railroads with the Asians.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

I was really liking your post until you typed:

“But this will never happen because employers (usually good solid Republicans) are benefiting from the labor of illegal immigrants–they’re cheaper, don’t join unions, don’t make trouble, and don’t ask for their rights.”

And why is this putting you off? Who owns those construction companies, restaurants, landscaping services, etc.?

A lot of them are not Republicans (or at least not Conservatives)

I would argue that most of them are libertarians, who are perhaps the some of the most selfish people on the planet.

NOTE: libertarians are in BOTH the Republican and Democratic parties.

 

[Augustinian]

Want to eliminate illegal immigration? Easy. Just eliminate the ability of illegal immigrants to get jobs.

A lot of illegals get employment in the cash, under the table sector of the economy. Very difficult sector to police

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

True… and we made it very easy (relatively) for Europeans to enter via Ellis Island, but it was very strict for Asians to enter via Angel Island in San Fran.

Yes. But there’s that pesky 19th century filter.

You do realize that particular prejudice was not confined to the US, I hope.

That doesn’t make it right - just that the time period made things different. People weren’t exactly letting Africans in anywhere in droves either - unless it was to build the railroads with the Asians.

I know… I posted that really for the person you were responding to who wanted to return to Ellis Island era immigration.

We can’t discuss Ellis Island without discussing Angel Island

 

[Erikaspirit16]

A lot of illegals get employment in the cash, under the table sector of the economy. Very difficult sector to police

I don’t see why. If I know I’m going to be fined $10,000 if I hire Jose to mow my lawn, I’m going to be pretty sure Jose’s legal. Maybe that’s just me.