where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[rinnie]

Thank you finally an answer!! Ok so I do believe in the presence.

But did the historical church really teach the following? I am shocked, horrified and deeply troubled by these statements- I posted them on another thread trying to get answers.

**I was taught our salvation was through Jesus! ** Any other gospel was false. Were the Popes speaking from “Peter’s Chair” on thesde?

The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary. Sweet heart of Mary, be my salvation! Pope Pius IX

For, since it is the will of Divine Providence that we should have the God-Man through Mary, there is no other way for us to receive Christ except from her hands. Pope Pius X

He will not taste death forever who, in his dying moments, has recourse to the Blessed Virgin Mary. What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned as Queen at the right hand of your Son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens, and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of Hell, and you alone O Mary, save us from the hands of Satan. Pope Pius XI

Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. O Virgin Most Holy, no one abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; no one O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee! Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people. Pope Leo XIII

Mary, not one of thy devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved! Pope Benedict XV

Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins. Pope Boniface VIII

We believe with our hearts and confess with our lips but one Church, not that of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, outside of which we believe that no one is saved. Pope Innocent III

He who is separated from the Catholic Church will not have life. He who is separated from the body of the Catholic Church, however praiseworthy his conduct may seem otherwise, will never enjoy eternal life, and the wrath of God remains on him by reason of the crime of which he is guilty in living separated from Christ. All those who are separated from the holy universal Church will not be saved. Pope Gregory XVI

It must be held as a matter of faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only Ark of Salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the Flood. It is a sin to believe that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church! You must indeed see to it that the faithful have fixed firmly in their minds the absolute necessity of the Catholic faith for attaining salvation. Protestantism is the Great Revolt against God. Pope Pius IX

So is Billy Garham actually a Catholic and he doesn’t know it?
Those outside the Church do not possess the Holy Ghost. The Catholic Church alone is the Body of Christ… and if separated from the Body of Christ he is not one of His members, nor is he fed by His Spirit. Pope Paul VI

No one, even if he pours out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved unless he remains within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. Pope Eugene IV

We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of **every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. **Pope Boniface VIII

Into this fold of Jesus Christ no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff, and only if they be united to him can men be saved. Pope John XXIII

Those who are obstinate toward the authority of the Church and the Roman Pontiff… cannot obtain eternal salvation. Pope Pius IX

By the way another person taking the words of the Pope and twisting them to mean what they want them to mean.

Question how did Jesus get here?
How did we get Salvation?

Did we not get Salvation through Jesus Christ? Did Mary the Mother Of Jesus Christ say yes to God. And was she not the ARK of the NC.

Did the Ark not contain the word, and did the word not become flesh Jesus CHrist through the ARK which was Mary.

So did Salvation not come through the Ark which was the Body OF Mary the Mother of God.

The Pope never said that we bypass Jesus Christ and have Salvation BY Mary. The Pope said by The Grace, and hope of Mary and her faith we gained salvation through her by her SON JESUS CHRIST. SHe brought him into the world. This is just a small example how when people do not understand things, turn it around, twist it, take such a beautiful truth and twist it with thier own hate for the Pope and his Church and our love for the Blessed Mother and try to make it ugly. What is the point of these things???

 

[Carlan]

By the way another person taking the words of the Pope and twisting them to mean what they want them to mean.

Question how did Jesus get here?
How did we get Salvation?

Did we not get Salvation through Jesus Christ? Did Mary the Mother Of Jesus Christ say yes to God. And was she not the ARK of the NC.

Did the Ark not contain the word, and did the word not become flesh Jesus CHrist through the ARK which was Mary.

So did Salvation not come through the Ark which was the Body OF Mary the Mother of God.

The Pope never said that we bypass Jesus Christ and have Salvation BY Mary. The Pope said by The Grace, and hope of Mary and her faith we gained salvation through her by her SON JESUS CHRIST. SHe brought him into the world. This is just a small example how when people do not understand things, turn it around, twist it, take such a beautiful truth and twist it with thier own hate for the Pope and his Church and our love for the Blessed Mother and try to make it ugly. What is the point of these things???

ALLELUIA!!! and may God have mercy on all who do not believe.Carlan

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I find it absolutely mindboggling with how much work Tweetymom does do in her Catholic parish based on what I have gathered from the forum, and yet how persecuted and how much of a cross she must bear from her fellow believers here on CAF. But I know Christ gives us no heavier cross than we can bear. Sad though.

Yeah but did you ever wish He didnt think we could handle so much?

 

[guanophore]

Ok but I have to say you lost me at she teaches, had to look up a word, learned in her studies but shows no willingness to learn.

She is part of the RCIA program at her parish, and is involved in educating converts who are entering the Roman Catholic Church. Yet she is staunchly anti-Catholic in much of her theology, and demonstrates no interest in learning about the Catholic faith or wrestling with the fact that her personal views are contrary to the Church teaching.

I am sure she is constantly learning about her Scriptures. She has been an avid bible student for 30 some years, if memory serves. She loves the Word of God, and steeps herself in it every day (according to her own testimony here on CAF).

 

[larkin31]

Transubstantiation , the most important miracle of all.

I have never heard this claim before.

Is this why people of history have killed each other over it?

 

[guanophore]

Yeah but it takes Catholics too for the ecumenical work of unity!

Unity is the fruit of adherance to the Truth. Every Catholic who learns his faith, and clings closely to Christ as the Head will be furthering the cause of ecumenism. Unity is not enhanced by ignoring the reasons for our divisions. It is possible to focus on the unity we share without compromising the Truth.

Look at Tweety for an example of this. One of the reasons that she is such a good role model for the Catholic parishioners is that she is absolutely dedicated to her faith. She does not just practice Christianity when she is at Church, like many do. She also feeds on the Word of God in Scripture daily, which most American Catholics don’t do. She lives her faith, and this is good for ecumenism. When we are all able to do this, we will find that unity is the result. Then the world will know Him through our love for one another.

 

[larkin31]

…God made her pure and free from sin …

I don’t remember where either Jesus or one of the writers of the NT states this. Could you help me with a chapter and verse for this?

 

[larkin31]

Not at all. And yes if does make Catholic’s look bad when they say they are Catholic but then they do not agree with all of the teachings of the Church, because that is not a true Catholic. A true Catholic obey and accept ALL of the teaching’s of the Church. They can not pick and choose what they want to accept and not accept. If so that would make them protestant

You sound like there can be no sin nor any heterodoxy among Catholics. That is a silly, extremist position. The Catholic Church has had debates within itself (councils and parishes) for millenia now.

Jesus did not advocate mindless orthodoxy. His parables and teachings require hard thought. Even the apostles had disagreements in the very first “church”.

 

[Carlan]

I have never heard this claim before.

Is this why people of history have killed each other over it?

Read John 6; 25 and following, the Didcourse on the Bread of Life, Pray it until you get it.God be with you. Carlan

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Exactly the point Catholics make. We are talking 30 to 60 yrs after the death of Jesus before Gods words were written down as scripture or Gospel. Try telling a story to one person and have the story passed around the room and see if the story is still the same.

Yes so its not hard to imagine that after 1500 years it might be a good idea to get back the the original documents and see what may have evolved.

So you see, if you can visualize how it all started. You have to come to the conclusion that, the only way Gods words stayed intact and consistent was through the power of the holy spirit and an authoritative teaching.

Or you see how He gave us the books of the Bible so we could return to them as the Israelites did. How many times through different kings they let the people drift from the truth and then they were brought back to the scriptures. even at times bing divided do to unfaithfulness. these things happened to them as examples for us.

All of it. What you see in the Catholic Church, the liturgy, the Eucharist, The Alter, the authority, The fullness of the faith in every aspect of the church, is what has been passed down. The minimallistic protestants have decided on their own to eliminate books of the bible, become their own authority, do away with liturgal traditions, change the meaning of the eucharist, etc., etc. If it were not for the banquet of Faith that the Catholic Church provided and maintained for 1500 yrs, what would the protestants have chosen from to put on their plate?

A 1500 year old banquet might have a few items that need tossing

The first paragraphs spells out the need for centralized authority and the existence of that authority. In Gods first convenant with man, the jews, God established an authoritative priesthood, that was heiracrchial. Why would God not set up his new covenenat in a similar manner? One metaphorical line? Please. Read the whole passage and the whole story. Jesus realized that his father put the knowledge of who he truly was in the mind and heart of Peter. Thus Jesus gave the authority to Peter to shepard his flock. Remember feed my sheep? You take the OT and NT, you’ll see many passages about authority and Peter always by name and the rest of the apostles.

Glad you see the pattern in the old testament. Now , How faithful were they to Gods instructions over 1500 years? What did God do about it? Dont think it could happen to Christs church? He threatened to take the spirit away from one of the churches in Revelation. Does God make empty threats?

Bottom line with Protestants, yall decided to follow the teachings of one man, Martin Luther. From him all protestant religions took their form in one way or another. The church he founded borrowed all it has from the banquet of the Catholic Church. What great powers did Luther possess? He was a Catholic priest at one time, challenged the authority of the church, found himself with no where to go, so he changed the bible to his liking and started his own church. Ironically, he had to create an authority within his church. So where we see Christ and the apostles as the authority that was handed down to the Catholic Church, yall can start yall linage from Martin Luther.

God used one man in on many occasions to bring His people back to the scriptures. besides Luther, the Bible was beginning to be mass produced at that time and was available to more people.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Not exactly. They are indeed incorporated into Christ.

Incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: “Therefore . . . we are members one of another.” Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”

**The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians **

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn.

I have read on another thread some quotes from Popes that seem to contradict these paragraphs. which has more authority? Or am I missunderstanding one of them?

 

[larkin31]

Read John 6; 25 and following, the Didcourse on the Bread of Life, Pray it until you get it.God be with you. Carlan

I asked about the sinless and perfect Mary. John 6 has nothing in it about Mary.

 

[rinnie]

I don’t remember where either Jesus or one of the writers of the NT states this. Could you help me with a chapter and verse for this?

Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

 

[rinnie]

You sound like there can be no sin nor any heterodoxy among Catholics. That is a silly, extremist position. The Catholic Church has had debates within itself (councils and parishes) for millenia now.

Jesus did not advocate mindless orthodoxy. His parables and teachings require hard thought. Even the apostles had disagreements in the very first “church”.

Where in the world did you get me saying that people who say they are Catholic and then do not agree with the teachings of the Catholic CHurch mean they can have no sin?

 

[Carlan]

Yes so its not hard to imagine that after 1500 years it might be a good idea to get back the the original documents and see what may have evolved.

Or you see how He gave us the books of the Bible so we could return to them as the Israelites did. How many times through different kings they let the people drift from the truth and then they were brought back to the scriptures. even at times bing divided do to unfaithfulness. these things happened to them as examples for us.

A 1500 year old banquet might have a few items that need tossing

Glad you see the pattern in the old testament. Now , How faithful were they to Gods instructions over 1500 years? What did God do about it? Dont think it could happen to Christs church? He threatened to take the spirit away from one of the churches in Revelation. Does God make empty threats?

God used one man in on many occasions to bring His people back to the scriptures. besides Luther, the Bible was beginning to be mass produced at that time and was available to more people.

MRL, which ones do you think needed tossing from Christ’s revelation? God’s peace and blessings, Carlan

 

[larkin31]

Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

Yes, but this is the same phrase that is used to compliment others about 50 times in the NT, including this clear sinner:
“Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.” (Romans)

 

[rinnie]

I have never heard this claim before.

Is this why people of history have killed each other over it?

Jesus turning his body and blood into eternal life through the Eucharist and giving the Priest the power to do this causes People to kill eachother?

 

[larkin31]

Jesus turning his body and blood into eternal life through the Eucharist and giving the Priest the power to do this causes People to kill eachother?

No, rather the dispute over the interpretation of the passage. Seems that people get pretty worked up over it, to the point of killing each other.

 

[Carlan]

I asked about the sinless and perfect Mary. John 6 has nothing in it about Mary.

Read your post, 1247 over again. I was referring to what you said about about transubstantiation,

 

[CMatt25]

Look, you either have the faith to believe in the hard sayings. the mysteries of miracles or you don’t, It is time to move on from this thread. This has gone on long enough Doki and Matt. Peace and understanding dear God, Carlan

Sorry Carlan I know I have a lot of posts but they added up partly because I was just responding to people who responded to me.

And I’m 3 pgs behind now and I have people saying I produce bad fruit and all sorts of things that need answered. What am I to do?