"WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE? The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President."

[SamH]

I concur.

I am very glad that he has released the long form so that this silly issue can finally go away, but two years ago would have been much better.

Just like the “Bush lied and people died” crowd went away when the 9-11 commission released its report?

 

[Big_Ro]

Why ban it? There has to be an explanation to offer the disappointed when, in the absence of serious opposition, the president gains a second term. This issue will help get Obama re-elected AND give his detractors a reason to blame him for his opponents’ failure to unseat him. As perfect a circular argument as ever there was. Gotta love it.

Well, maybe banning is a bit of strong, but I stand by my sugegstion. Your point is well taken. Thank you. The circular argument is spot on.

I do think there is some validity to your argument about how this actually helps Obama gain a second term. I’m not sure he deserves it, but I definitely do not see a single candidate on the Republican side that I would consider voting for under any circumstances. I think the larger point is that the Republicans are wasting valuable time and energy on this and other unworthy issues. The last few Presidential elections have shown that it takes two years. We are well under that time frame. I think you have to go back to maybe '92 or '88 for the last time that the eventual winner was not an active, announced candidate this close to voting. I also think this may actually give Trump a serious shot at the nomination or at least to seriously divide Republican voters to the extent that a clear frontrunner will be difficult to identify. This plagued them in the last cycle. The problem with Trump is that once you get beyond the P.T. Barnum impersonation there really is little substance and he has never had to endure the rigors of a Presidential campaign. I don’t see his muttled stances on the issues standing up to the white-hot scrutiny of Presidential politics. The advantage for the Republicans is that the Democrats have shown an unbeatable ability to turn any advantage in to a weakness. They are their own worst enemy.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Just like the “Bush lied and people died” crowd went away when the 9-11 commission released its report?

Of course, as soon as the report was public, the “truthers” went away satisfied.

 

[bbarrick8383]

How did you get there? This topic is causing people on both sides to be uncharitable. I’ve been tempted to say what I really think about this controversy, but feel that my post would be absolutely uncharitable. So, I keep it to myself. Your comment says far more about you than it does me. I’m all for people expressing themselves and holding whatever opinions they may desire. This does not insulate them from ridicule. However, I do believe that since this is a Catholic Forum, some boundries should be applied. In my opinion, the boundries in this thread have been breached. It’s not good for us as fellow Catholics to behave this way.

Unfortunately Mr. Bay has to work very hard on quite a few topics to remind people to be charitable. This one is no different, people should be able to continue to discuss it without worrying about a poster promoting a ban on the topic. This says nothing about me other than I like to see anyone discussing any topic they wish within the rules of the forum, if they break those rules then they should be punished, not everyone else and if you are that annoyed then there are plenty of other threads on this forum for you to be spending your undoubtedly valuable time on than this one.

 

[Abyssinia]

Now Obama has cleared this up he can go and do his Oprah taping and then fundraising in NYC.

As Ben Howe said on twitter. Obama has provided a document proving where he was born. Now let’s work on letting others be born.

 

[kimmielittle]

We’ll it will take a bit for it to be studied like Bush’s NG papers…But even then you will have a fringe…I just want to see the transparency…When your in public office your lif becomes an open book…People don’t like things that are hidden/sealed, it opens the door to conspiracy.

“We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration,” he wrote in one of his first memos to federal agencies. “Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.” - Barack Obama

President Obama’s famous pledge, made his second day in office,

“President Obama was scheduled to receive an award from the organizers of the Freedom of Information Day Conference, to be presented at the White House by “five transparency advocates.” The White House postponed that meeting because of events in Libya and Japan, and it was rescheduled…That meeting did take place – behind closed doors. The press was not invited to the private transparency meeting, and no photos from or transcript of the meeting have been made available. The event was not listed on the president’s calendar…Nor is the award mentioned anywhere on the White House website, including on the page devoted to transparency and good government. Were it not for the testimony of the transparency advocates who met secretly with the president, there wouldn’t seem to be any evidence that the meeting actually took place.”

Why?

Maybe, here are some answers:

ethicsalarms.com/2011/04/01/integrity-check-obamas-embarrassing-transparency-pledge/

 

[bquinnan]

Barack Obama may well be “just another sneaky, deceitful, lying politician”, but I don’t believe he is lying about where he was born! Pick a real lie and start a thread about that.

I’m really hoping that the fact that he’s now released his birth certificate will end this debate, which should have ended once he was elected. The voters decided that there wasn’t enough doubt about his birthplace to persuade them not to vote for him. That should have been the end of the investigation, IMO. And really, questions, if any, about Obama’s birthplace are toward the bottom of my list of reasons for not voting for him then or now. Unfortunately, my guess is that most of the birthers won’t be satisfied with the certificate, either.

However, you fail to address the fact that there is NO good Republican candidate to vote for among the current candidates.

There are none that I love, so far, but I’d vote for any of them before our current leader. But “perfect” candidates generally don’t exist in the real world; we have to choose among the best of imperfect options. To steal a phrase from Thomas Sowell, I voted for McCain because “I prefer disaster to catastrophe.” I don’t like that Romney implemented a state-run healthcare plan, but at least he sees the problem with initiating such a program at the federal level.

“Personal Property Rights” sounds like a Libertarian argument, but true Libertarians don’t use the coercive power of government to fight culture wars - which is where the “Abortion” issue falls. So, I’m confused about the logic of your arguments, which appear to be all over the map and are getting me no closer to having a candidate to vote for in 2012.

Libertarians are not necessarily pro-abortion; they do recognize that human beings have a right to life that should be protected by the government. The problem is that many of them do not recognize the unborn child as a human being. But, libertarians hold no copyright on the phrase “personal property rights.” Many who would not call themselves libertarian still believe in personal property. The Catholic Church is certainly aware of the concept: newadvent.org/cathen/12462a.htm. But that’s probably off-topic for this thread.

 

[Big_Ro]

Unfortunately Mr. Bay has to work very hard on quite a few topics to remind people to be charitable. This one is no different, people should be able to continue to discuss it without worrying about a poster promoting a ban on the topic. This says nothing about me other than I like to see anyone discussing any topic they wish within the rules of the forum, if they break those rules then they should be punished, not everyone else and if you are that annoyed then there are plenty of other threads on this forum for you to be spending your undoubtedly valuable time on than this one.

Mr. Bay is doing a fine job. I continue to stand by my suggestion. As far as being annoyed, I didn’t say that at all. I said I am amused by Birthers. Therein lies the problem. I fear that my amusement is similar to being amused by seeing a person with mental or physical impairment. I would consider that horribly wrong, uncharitable and sinful. The difference is that they have no choice in the matter. And, as you can see, the very act of addressing your nonsense forces me in to being uncharitable.

 

[kimmielittle]

Unfortunately Mr. Bay has to work very hard on quite a few topics to remind people to be charitable. This one is no different, people should be able to continue to discuss it without worrying about a poster promoting a ban on the topic. This says nothing about me other than I like to see anyone discussing any topic they wish within the rules of the forum, if they break those rules then they should be punished, not everyone else and if you are that annoyed then there are plenty of other threads on this forum for you to be spending your undoubtedly valuable time on than this one.

:yup::yup::clapping::clapping:

 

[kimmielittle]

Mr. Bay is doing a fine job. I continue to stand by my suggestion. As far as being annoyed, I didn’t say that at all. I said I am amused by Birthers. Therein lies the problem. I fear that my amusement is similar to being amused by seeing a person with mental or physical impairment. I would consider that horribly wrong, uncharitable and sinful. The difference is that they have no choice in the matter. And, as you can see, the very act of addressing your nonsense forces me in to being uncharitable.

Again,

Did you answer my post about my research?

Do you think my research was fair?
Do you think I presented Facts not fiction in my research?

Reminder:
It was you who brought up and addressed me about my “research”

 

[kimmielittle]

Mr. Bay is doing a fine job. I continue to stand by my suggestion. As far as being annoyed, I didn’t say that at all. I said I am amused by Birthers. Therein lies the problem. I fear that my amusement is similar to being amused by seeing a person with mental or physical impairment. I would consider that horribly wrong, uncharitable and sinful. The difference is that they have no choice in the matter. And, as you can see, the very act of addressing your nonsense forces me in to being uncharitable.

Once again, I’m not a “birther”

The question Mr Obama has never addressed is his direct opposition to transparency. A platform He **chose to use **.

“We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration,” he wrote in one of his first memos to federal agencies. “Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.” - Barack Obama

No one - not the White House - Mr.Obama - or commentaries here have addressed this blatant failure.

Mr Obama’s Long Form Birrth Certificate is only ONE small part of this.

It took 2 years to get it released and derailed by every means possible BY Mr Obama and “All The Presidents Men” - can we conclude that Transparency in other matters will be derailed as well?

 

[Sonic]

I would like to say this is a victory for the people in group one.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7799838&postcount=367

This is a victory for those of us that want to hold our leaders to a higher standard of transparency and honesty. We have helped to uphold the constitution of the United States by hopefully bringing an end to this debate. Despite being called “birthers” and “conspiracy theorists” (and even sometimes racists and xenophobes), we stuck it out and achieved something.

 

[kimmielittle]

I would like to say this is a victory for the people in group one.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7799838&postcount=367

This is a victory for those of us that want to hold our leaders to a higher standard of transparency and honesty. We have helped to uphold the constitution of the United States by hopefully bringing an end to this debate. Despite being called “birthers” and “conspiracy theorists” (and even sometimes racists and xenophobes), we stuck it out and achieved something.

 

[Big_Ro]

A spokesman for the Tea Party Nation says that the release of the BC doesn’t quite satisfy them. There are apparently still questions about the President’s citizenship and whether or not his grades wararnted admission to an Ivy League School.

 

[TMC]

A spokesman for the Tea Party Nation says that the release of the BC doesn’t quite satisfy them. There are apparently still questions about the President’s citizenship and whether or not his grades wararnted admission to an Ivy League School.

What are the new citizenship questions? I thought the controversy was about citizenship, what do his grades have to do with that?

 

[Big_Ro]

What are the new citizenship questions? I thought the controversy was about citizenship, what do his grades have to do with that?

His father was Kenyan. Obama had dual citizenship. Lost American citizenship when allegedly adopted by Sotero in Indonesia. The grades are apaprently for the bonus round.

 

[Marie5890]

I’m one of those who thinks this pushing of Obama was not born in the USA a breaking of the 8th Commandment.

 

[Big_Ro]

I’m one of those who thinks this pushing of Obama was not born in the USA a breaking of the 8th Commandment.

Well, I essentially agree. The problem is that we can’t seem to agree on what is truth or fact. This phenomenon is debasing our political discourse and preventing us from as a society addressing the complex and very serious challenges that plague us.

2464 The eighth commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in our relations with others. This moral prescription flows from the vocation of the holy people to bear witness to their God who is the truth and wills the truth. Offenses against the truth express by word or deed a refusal to commit oneself to moral uprightness: they are fundamental infidelities to God and, in this sense, they undermine the foundations of the covenant.

 

[TMC]

His father was Kenyan. Obama had dual citizenship. Lost American citizenship when allegedly adopted by Sotero in Indonesia. The grades are apaprently for the bonus round.

He was born in Hawaii, that makes him a natural born citizen regardless of the citizenship of his father. The Sotero stuff is sheer speculation, would not undo his citizenship and is probably best left to another thread.

 

[Big_Ro]

You know what…thanks Marie. I am looking at the CCC and seeing where I have in this thread and in other places not fully respected the 8th Commandment. Thank you for that.