Which religion is grabbing the most Catholics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Karl_Keating
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Puzzled:
In this part of the world, I’d say that most Catholics sadly are at best deists or at worst, new agers - including the large and beautiful Franciscan convent up on the hill.

However, the Catholics I know who have become Evangelical Protestants haven’t understood Catholic teaching and hadn’t previously truly converted to Christ. The Protestants I see on Marc Grodi’s show seem not to have understood their tradition, either. Including the Chem prof from Concordia, Seward.

Can we say together, “catechesis”?
Click to expand...
I agree. Karl should have asked the question WHY are other religions grabbing the most Catholics.

The answer is catechesis.
Proof:
All protestants “know” that the bible alone is their authority.
If surveys were done on this question, it would be close to 100% agreement by protestants, even though there is no such teaching in the bible, and even though the bible opposes this teaching.
Yet, all Catholics do not know that Jesus is really and truly present in the Eucharist, even though the bible is fairly clear on this.
Why the difference?

Because all protestants are TAUGHT constantly over and over, month in and month out that the bible alone is their authority.

All Catholics are NOT taught constantly the teachings on the Eucharist. They are NOT taught monthly basic doctrines at mass. Most homilies teach nothing. They only repeat what was just read in the readings. EVEN BY GOOD AND HOLY PRIESTS.
Catholics learn nothing. Why? Because of the false interpretation of Vatican II and the false interpretation of the GIRM.
The false interpretation is that Catechesis is NOT to be given at the homily. The false interpretation is that the homily is only to give an exesgesis and explanation of the readings.

Before Vatican II the homily was used to teach doctrine. Priests were supposed to use the Roman Catechism, and most did. This was great. The only fault was that often the homily was separated from the liturgy, by anouncements and by a homily which made no connection to the liturgy. This was not the practice of the Church fathers. Vatican II tried to correct this by saying the homily should be an exposition of some part of the readings, or of the mass and must take into account the mysteries of the faith and moral teachings.
The false interpretation was that the homily was now only a commentary on scripture. This is false. The "mysteries of the faith refer to teachings which cannot be known by natural knowledge, thus almost all Catholic Church teachings apart from morality. The moral part takes care of the commandments.
Thus the homily was only supposed to take a part of the readings or of the mass as a launching point, in order to make a connection to the liturgy. The content of the homily was never supposed to have changed. It was still primarily to be on teachings, catechesis, doctrines, learning the faith, the sacraments, sin and grace, etc. It was NEVER intended to be only a commentary on scripture. It is this false idea that has led so many Catholics to leave the faith or quit going to mass.
We have to let the Bishops know that they must clear up this error and return to catechesis during the homily.
 
I have been questioning catholicism for some time now. I am not “poorly catechised” and think this is a poor excuse for the real reasons why many leave the Church. They leave because they do not feel a connection with Jesus. They learn to pray via intercessors instead of going to the man Himself. The thought of “eating God” makes many feel truly sick and they respect Communion as a memorial rather than “transubstantiation.” Many object to “Mary worship” which I know causes much conflict as those who defend it say it isn’t worship. Still others detest the hypocrisy of the “infallibility” of the Pope seeing so many Catholics criticising the current Pope.

I would say that most leave to become evangelicals as when they worship the Lord there, they praise His Glory and His Name as the Risen Saviour, not just the dead Jesus on the Cross, or the helpless Baby Jesus or the distant Jesus who needs to be approached via His mother…
 
Why is there not a line for Traditional Catholics, as you have all of these other heretical groups? I can name about 10 or 20 friends or family who have started attending or have been attending St Pius V, X or independent Trad churuches, but maybe only 1 or 2 Protestant, so maybe you need to rework this pole.
Karl Keating:
This is a question about your perception, not about statistics. Someone undertaking a detailed sociological survey might be able to come up with hard numbers.

I’m looking for your gut feeling, which may be based in part on what has happened to people you know or know about.

In your estimation, which religion has been most successful in inducing one-time Catholics to join it?
Click to expand...
 
40.png
Micky:
The religion that is grabbing alot of Fillopino Catholics in Western Sydney, Australia is a group called ‘Iglesia Ni Christo’ (Eng.Church of Christ). I have been a Catholic for more than 10 years but have not heard of this organisation until recently when I started college.

They feed thier members with lies about catholicism and are quite hostile to Catholics(Verbally). I have corrected one member on his views on Catholicism but there are many others that like to preach but do not like to hear what they don’t like.

“If you want to buy a Toyota car, why ask Ford what features a Toyota car has”

I think one reason that many are flocking to the INC is because the INC leaders are feeding messages that people like to hear instead of the truth. For many of the converts to INC it is easier to listen to FALSE teachings rather than to hear the truth.

INC does not believe in purgatory, confessions, intercessions of Angels and Saints and many other doctrines that are taken out of context-They take words out of the bible and put it out of context to suit thier own convience.
Click to expand...
Here in the Philippines:
  1. Secularism/New Age/ etc
  2. Fundamentalists and Evangelicals (“born - agains”)
  3. Iglesia ni Cristo
  4. Ang Dating Daan (split off from #2…)
  5. distantly, Islam
 
I have seen a lot of Catholics go southern Baptist, and fundamentalists go Catholic.

Laura
 
I myself went from catholicism to evangelical protestant and i mostly see them going to protestant as well and ive seen many jw’s and mormons converting to catholicism which is cool
 
Definitely JWs. That’s because most traditional Catholics never read their bibles and so cannot defend their faith from it.
 
I would have voted for Agnosticism if you had that category.

What about the church of Laodicea? That’s even more ubiquitous lurking even within the Catholic church itself.
 
In my experience of recent years, I’d have to say Calvary Chapel… where do they fit?
 
40.png
BobCatholic:
I would say mirror worship. Unfortunately, Church of the Holy Mirror is not one of the choices.

That mirror cracks the whip on someone, and they ego-trip. Then they get grandiose ideas of their personal authority, or think they’re divine, or…
Click to expand...
Yes! Have you heard their hymn: “I did it My way. . .”?
 
Actually I would say, non denominational, unorganized dieism if not out right atheism or agnosticism (is this the right word or term ?). There should be an “Other” option.

I see kids, young adults questioning all organized forms of religion. Some even doubt if God exists at all, most acknowledge God exists, but do not accept any formalized concept of him.

I see this as a reaction against what they view as conservative religions such as Catholicism, all Christians in general, Islamist and just about all of the organized faiths. They see the world in conflict over religious beliefs, problems with priests and ministers, what they perceive as grabs for power and money.

What should be seen is not well advertised, or so overshadowed by the negatives that it is easily forgotten or relegated to an afterthought.

I suppose almost every young person goes through a period of self evaluation and questions their belief systems. Many if not most (myself included) went through a time, when we boiled all our beliefs done to only the very basics. I guess you would called us lapsed Catholics at this point.

I personally never got to the point of atheism, but I suppose I came pretty close. I certainly was to a point where I questioned whether Catholicism in particular and even if Christianity in general were what God really wanted people to follow.

A couple of my kids are in that stage now (and I see many of their friends are similarly in periods of self doubt) It took me almost 10 years to come to the conclusion that Christians in general, and Catholics in particular, are about as close to what God wants us to follow.

I envy the parents whose kids keep their faith throughout their adolescence into adulthood. I encourage and pray for mine constantly for the Lord to lead them safely back to the Church. They have to determine for themselves what is right. I try to set an example, but they have to make the decision to follow or chose their own path. There are many ways to God, how can I insist that the way I choose is the only way.
regards, Wes
 
40.png
wcknight:
Actually I would say, non denominational, unorganized dieism if not out right atheism or agnosticism (is this the right word or term ?). There should be an “Other” option.

I see kids, young adults questioning all organized forms of religion. Some even doubt if God exists at all, most acknowledge God exists, but do not accept any formalized concept of him.

I see this as a reaction against what they view as conservative religions such as Catholicism, all Christians in general, Islamist and just about all of the organized faiths. They see the world in conflict over religious beliefs, problems with priests and ministers, what they perceive as grabs for power and money.

What should be seen is not well advertised, or so overshadowed by the negatives that it is easily forgotten or relegated to an afterthought.

I suppose almost every young person goes through a period of self evaluation and questions their belief systems. Many if not most (myself included) went through a time, when we boiled all our beliefs done to only the very basics. I guess you would called us lapsed Catholics at this point.

I personally never got to the point of atheism, but I suppose I came pretty close. I certainly was to a point where I questioned whether Catholicism in particular and even if Christianity in general were what God really wanted people to follow.

A couple of my kids are in that stage now (and I see many of their friends are similarly in periods of self doubt) It took me almost 10 years to come to the conclusion that Christians in general, and Catholics in particular, are about as close to what God wants us to follow.

I envy the parents whose kids keep their faith throughout their adolescence into adulthood. I encourage and pray for mine constantly for the Lord to lead them safely back to the Church. They have to determine for themselves what is right. I try to set an example, but they have to make the decision to follow or chose their own path. There are many ways to God, how can I insist that the way I choose is the only way.
regards, Wes
Click to expand...
Wes,

Two questions. How were you raised? Did you parents keep you immersed in the faith through adolescence? And, what methods are you employing to make sure your kids stay close to the church as they grow up? I have a five year old and an infant and I’m already concerned. Thanks.
 
I’ve seen the fundamentalist posts here and they reflect the persistent propaganda issued by those folks. When I went through my faith journey, I too considered varius protestant sects. But having been bought up Catholic I could easily distinguish myth from fact.

I guess for those Catholics going through a period of self doubt, it would be very easy to believe some of the distortions and half truths. I too have seen some Catholics turn toward fundamentalism, but I have also seen a lot more protestants turn towards Catholicism.

It’s a very scary step for the latter because many of these folks have heard for so long the party line that somehow Catholics are evil and the pope is the anti-Christ and other such nonsense. I have yet to see a convert go back to being protestant, because once here they see for themselves what we believ in and what we do not.

Conversely, lapsed Catholics who convert to become hard line fundalmentalists somehow find it easier to believe all the lies and half-truths probabaly because when they were Catholics they really did not have a clue as to what their faith was all about to begin with.

But what you discover is that these former Catholics develop an outright hatred for the Church and Catholic people in particular. Part of their belief is that all Catholics are toast, and therefore Catholics who try to spread the faith are condemning other folks to fry for all eternity. (they belief this of all non-Christian faiths as well as Mormons and JWs, and they do consider Catholics as non-Christians, even though we believe in Christ and follow Christ just as they supposedly do)

Objectively, you would think that such a hard line philosphy is contrary to everything that Christ taught us… so much for love your neighbor. It’s love your neighbor IF they are “true born again believers”. 😦
regards, Wes

Love your neighbor IN SPITE of what they believe, especially if it is different from you.
 
40.png
Tmaque:
Wes,

Two questions. How were you raised? Did you parents keep you immersed in the faith through adolescence? And, what methods are you employing to make sure your kids stay close to the church as they grow up? I have a five year old and an infant and I’m already concerned. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Todd,
My parents were “non-practicing” Buddhist as most chinese are. I went to a Catholic grade school and Catholic HS. I was baptized in first grade.

I sent all my kids to Catholic grade school and Catholic HS. I guess part of the problem is my wife is not Catholic (we married while I was in my lapsed Catholic days.) I supposed if we prayed more as a family things might have been different but I think not.

We went to mass every Sunday as a family especially when the kids were young. My wife went also for the first 10 years or so. She stopped when the kids were teenagers.

My youngest, a senior in HS still believes as I do. We attend mass every Sunday. I try to be very active in the parish, I am an usher on Sundays, and I usher at the National Shrine of Our Lady in DC. I live my faith as best I can, I’m an officer in our local KofC. We have discussions every once in a while about religion, politics, the Church etc.

I try not to be too pushy, and I definitely try not to be dogmatic, but I defend the Church as vigorishly as I can especially if I think the kids are way off track. We have healthy discussions, but when things get too heated we back off and change the subject.

I really don’t have the definitive answer as to where we went wrong or how to get things back on track. Some of my kids resentment about the Church is a reaction to some of their teachers in grade school. They felt the strict authority some teachers imposed were too regimented and close minded. I guess some of this would have come about no matter where they went.

I still think Catholic schools are by far the better choice. My kids all are very interested in social justice, and have very strong moral values. I attribute this directly to their Catholic upbringing. On this, they are right on tract. Down the road, I hope and I believe they may return to the Church.

They are all very liberal and progressive in their thinking. They want to reform the world, they would like the Church to be a lot more liberal or more progressive. My daughter sees the Church as an ultra-chauvinistic organization. My son sees it as a ultra-conservative institution. They are both right, but some time down the road, they may come to accept what it is and know that neither trait is all bad and in some cases even necessary.

There is a saying “If you are not a liberal when you are young, you have no heart, If you are not conservative when you grow up, you have no brain”.

As parents, we can only teach them as best we can, and set an example as best we can. They may not accept it initially but you will be surprised what they remember down the road.

I know God will lead them down the right path, at this point it’s in His hands. For a while there, my dauther was an outright atheist, she has slowly come around to at least believing there is a God, she just hasn’t figured out what He looks like, yet 🙂 She finally had to acknowledge that it is awfully naive to believe there is no one or no thing better or higher up than us humans.

I’ll pray for your kids as well,
take care Wes
 
IF I could relive my life all over again, I probably would not change a thing. I had to go through a period of doubt to make my faith stronger. Sometimes you go through all the motions and somehow the meaning gets lost just from all the ritual. I think I went through that.

I disagreed with some aspects of my faith and I needed to reconcile my beliefs with the Churches. I think my kids are going through the same experiences. I wish I knew how to accelerate that journey or what made me turn back to the Church. I would apply it to my kids and voila, all would be fixed !

I call my journey a search for the Truth. It was there, all along, but I needed to confirm that what I had was indeed what it is supposed to be. I needed to look at all aspects of my beliefs, and look at what else was out there.

I think I am much better off having made the search and resolving most, if not all of the issues that I was questioning. I’ve found out recently that you can not force your kids to believe as you do.

They may believe as you do for quite a while, as they may not have any other influences other than what they were taught in school or at home. But part of growing up is evaluating the world around you and making your own decision about what is right and what is not. Much as we’d like we can’t live their lives for them.

In my senior year in HS (and also in my kids HS), part of the religion course is comparative religions. In it I got a glimpse of what the rest of the world believed in. Throughout college and early adulthood, I continued to read up on many of the world religions and philosophies. Maybe it is a coincidence, but it was about this time that I became a part time or lapsed Catholic.

Should this course be taken out of HS ? I hope not, life is all about finding the Truth, and we will never know the Truth unless we examine it for ourselves. How would we know that Islam, or Buddhism or whatever is not the true religion, if we have no idea what it is all about ? We can stick our heads in the sand or we can examine them just as we do our own faith, and make an informed decision.

Does this mean, folks who continue in the faith need to leave to find out what’s right ? Of course not, and it does not mean folks who have never questioned their faith are wrong either. Some folks don’t need to reassure themselves that their faith is the correct one. I did, and my kids do. I think it quite a dangerous path, I could have ended up in almost any religion and often times some do. This is the danger I hope my kids stay away from. There are so may cults and some many deceivers out there that sometimes it is tough to avoid them all.

The only constant during my lapse, was I always retained my sense of right and wrong. I suppose this too could have been left behind if I was not careful. There was never a time when I did not stop praying, and I still encourage my kids to do that.

There were a lot of times, when I thought if I died, would I go to Heaven or become toast ? Those were the times I prayed the most and hoped for the best. I believed at the time and I still believe God would have saved me even though I was not in prime condition. (I didn’t believe in Purgatory at the time, so it was either all or nothing) But I wanted to be sure, so I returned to the fold and am glad I did.

One of the best perks of being a ‘devout’ Catholic is, faith removes all the worry. Death doesn’t bother me quite as much as before. I’m still afraid of dying, and pain and suffering and the unknown etc. but I don’t worry about my eternal destiny anymore. As Jesus teaches look first to your place in Heaven, nothing else matters.

Regards, Wes
 
It is sad to say, but in larger cities and on the campus of many colleges, objectivism is taking over. I would not call it a religion of any sort… More so an anti-religion. I have been looking into this for research only because my brother, once in the seminary, is now an active atheist/objectivist. It is truely sad! You can google objectivism and find plenty of reading. It breaks my heart and makes me cry. It amazes me the sheer number of people who “believe” this stuff.
 
40.png
julieanne:
It is sad to say, but in larger cities and on the campus of many colleges, objectivism is taking over. I would not call it a religion of any sort… More so an anti-religion. I have been looking into this for research only because my brother, once in the seminary, is now an active atheist/objectivist. It is truely sad! You can google objectivism and find plenty of reading. It breaks my heart and makes me cry. It amazes me the sheer number of people who “believe” this stuff.
Click to expand...
Julianne, what is objectivism ? I think I’ve heard the term before, but never really figured out what it means. Was this the main reason for his departure, a sudden loss of faith or did something terrible happen that caused his change in beliefs ? You can spare us the gory details, and simply state something happened or did not.

Someone we recently sponsored to a seminary also left abruptly. I’m wondering if there may be a problem with people running our seminaries, or some of the participants. Certainly with the allegations and scandals recently, IF our seminaries need house cleaning, the Church would be much better served if it did so a lot sooner rather than later.

I’ve heard the usual rumors, but pray they are not true. I’ll also that pray your brother rekindles his faith, and finds peace with his decisions.

wes
 
40.png
wcknight:
Julianne, what is objectivism ? I think I’ve heard the term before, but never really figured out what it means. Was this the main reason for his departure, a sudden loss of faith or did something terrible happen that caused his change in beliefs ? You can spare us the gory details, and simply state something happened or did not.

Someone we recently sponsored to a seminary also left abruptly. I’m wondering if there may be a problem with people running our seminaries, or some of the participants. Certainly with the allegations and scandals recently, IF our seminaries need house cleaning, the Church would be much better served if it did so a lot sooner rather than later.

I’ve heard the usual rumors, but pray they are not true. I’ll also that pray your brother rekindles his faith, and finds peace with his decisions.

wes
Click to expand...
Wes,

Simply, my brother left St. Charles Bormeo in IL because it closed down. He had only one year left. There wasn’t another one close. And he didn’t take kindly to going further away. He finished HS at a private HS.

Objectivism is a not a new thing, but my brother became active about 4 years ago. I truly believe he was over educated. I know that sounds silly, but he really took to computers ans philosophy.
I think he was taught to question so much and only to believe in the things that you could see, hear, touch and taste.

Objectivism is hard for me to explain because I do not agree with it. I’ll try. From what I have been able to find, it seems to have started with a philosopher Ayn Rand. Her philosophy was that “man is a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.” Basically you can not believe in anything that does not have an earthly reasonable explanation. Thier “oath” of sorts is " I swear, by my life and love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine."

I think it is sick. For instance I tell him merry Chistmas and he tells me happy solstice. We have chosen to agree to disagree, but I pray for him every chance I get!
 
I hate to say it, but most of the former catholics I ask say they left from a bad experience with a priest. in most cases, the priest wouldn’t budge on the law so anger set in and they left. many are weak in there faith. I rarely find one who knows much about their faith. I didnt know much till an arguement with a non-catholic made me realize it. Then it was nose to the grindstone. What is sad is that in communist countries, they risk prison to have mass. here, they leave because the music is bad, or they dont like the priest. And they say, “well, I found a church that better matches my personality”. where is the obedience? Oppression keeps the faith strong, while prosperity shoves it to the side. and nowhere is it lost in temporal desires like America. So I would say mainstream protestant. Its man-centered and law is obsolete.
 
Richard Lamb:
They are all going willingly…We should not blame other non-catholic religions for taking Catholics away,we should look to ourselves for the lack of cathechesis that is allowing this to happen…No one is snatched away, they go because we have failed them…
Click to expand...
AMEN TO THAT!! We are failing largely in no little way due to, I believe, the lack of moral authority being preached from the pulpit. If Fr so-and-so isn’t preaching the Truth, then his luke-warm faith is being spread to his parishoners like night follows the day (except for those who actually know their faith). I’m sick of Catholics leaving or being deceived. It aches my heart.

I’m a 24 year old student at SDSU and I’m leading Bible studies on Wed at the Newman center at 7:00. Please lift up a prayer to the Good Lord that He may bless this undertaking.

In my opinion, things we need to do to be “successful” at keeping our sheep: (1) We need to study the BIble!! Organize small groups and study God’s Holy Word at every chance possible. Ignorance of the scriptures is ignorance of Christ. It’s sad to say, but, of the many evangelicals that I meet, they love to talk about Jesus. They love Jesus. They pray and talk to Jesus. They worship Jesus. Unfortunately, I feel many young Catholics don’t REALLY know Jesus that well. (2) We must encourage fellowhship because it is so important. Especially with the tidle wave of immorality that is sweeping across the nation. We need to have a firm support of our bros and sisters in Christ. Obviously, the evangelicals do have this. Guess what? It works! (3) We need to catechize everyone. From the adults to the children. A campaign of re-education is desperately needed. (4) Some of you might not like it, but, there “concert style” worship works. I’m in no means advocating contemporary christian rock in the liturgy, but, it can be incorporated in a way that gives praise and worship to Almighty God. Namely, if there are kids in a parish who are musicly inclined, encourage them to pratice and form a group for the Lord. They can play at times besides Mass. It follows that the reason I stress this is that the music at Mass is so often bland, and non- exciting and generates no love or enthusiasm for Christ and His Church.

The only reason I know as much as I do, is because of myself (of course by the grace of God). I began to read the Bible on my own. I bought tapes and videos, etc. on our beautiful faith. In short, I studied up when there was no one there to teach me. I know as much as I do not because of Fr. Bob or whoever.

Let’s get on it: “the harvest is in abundance but the laborers are few.” peace…pat
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top