Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S

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frobert said:
I keep coming back to your posts, not because I believe in their correctness or incorrectness but because of your dedication and passion. Over the last few years I grown cynical of all politics, I have to say its good to know that are people who will fight the good fight.
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I believe politicians are mostly corrupt and think this has always been a common feature even in the US. Nonetheless, as Christians I feel it is our duty to point out that God put us here as the light of the world and we need to “mix it up” and make sure our Christian values are put first in policies for the benefit of our country. In order to do that we Christians need to recognize that separation of church and state as it is understood now is diabolical as well as the concept that all sin is equal. Paz hermano.
 
lutheran_farmer said:
Putin has lost the last of his marbles. He would take the side of anyone who could bring him more power. Dividing the country and attacking the west are the same as always in Putin’s world. Just a new creative way to do it. He would align himself with extremist Muslims, if they could bring him the power he desires. Do not be fooled by his words because his actions will speak volumes as to his true character. He is power grabbing, nothing more, and it’s a shame he is dragging the Russian Orthodox church down with him (I wonder, do they have a choice?).

I’ll stay right here, with all our problems, thankyouverymuch. We have another election in a couple of years.
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Eight years of hillary.😉 Of course if you are Catholic you probably won’t be allowed to vote without significant financial penalties from the IRS
 
Tomdstone said:
That’s because the USA is morally bankrupt and consequently there is more crime in the USA.
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It is also because we have a for profit prison system in the US.

It is in their best interest to arrest and punish as many as they possibly can.
 
I know that ever since the 60’s America’s situation (along with the West) has declined morally-speaking, but aren’t we being a little melodramatic by stating that America is morally bankrupt, i.e., there were periods/issues prior to the 60’s that were just as morally corruptive on American society (the West). Just look at the situation with blacks and slavery, was this per se a good period for America? What I’m trying to say is that throughout human existence there was always some evil we were fighting, the problems of today are no more problematic per se then what others before us had to deal with. I think we can change the situation in the West, but obviously, not without a fight and most of all, prayer.
 
josie_L said:
…aren’t we being a little melodramatic by stating that America is morally bankrupt,.
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In the Jewish holocaust there were six million Jews killed, although some estimates say fewer, and that was proof that the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt. But in the USA, there were 50 million abortions since RvW. That could have been 50 million people now living and breathing in the USA? Doesn’t that prove that the USA is at least 8 times more morally corrupt than Nazi Germany ever was?
 
Tomdstone said:
In the Jewish holocaust there were six million Jews killed, although some estimates say fewer, and that was proof that the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt. But in the USA, there were 50 million abortions since RvW. That could have been 50 million people now living and breathing in the USA? Doesn’t that prove that the USA is at least 8 times more morally corrupt than Nazi Germany ever was?
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👍👍
 
mikekle said:
It is in their best interest to arrest and punish as many as they possibly can.
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As a prosecutor I can tell you the push is** clearly ** and painfully in the opposite direction to ‘save money’, and since liberal tendencies prevent any other punishments besides imprisonment, probation, and classes we consequently have overloads in each department with far more criminal activity than most lay citizens think.
 
Tomdstone said:
In the Jewish holocaust there were six million Jews killed, although some estimates say fewer, and that was proof that the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt. But in the USA, there were 50 million abortions since RvW. That could have been 50 million people now living and breathing in the USA? Doesn’t that prove that the USA is at least 8 times more morally corrupt than Nazi Germany ever was?
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Are you kidding me?? Abortion is evil, but the context in which it is done (those who are getting the abortion) is not the same as the reasoning behind killing 6 million Jews, and 3 and half million Poles . . . .etc. (the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt because it was a regime based on hate and hate alone)!
 
josie_L said:
Are you kidding me?? Abortion is evil, but the context in which it is done (those who are getting the abortion) is not the same as the reasoning behind killing 6 million Jews, and 3 and half million Poles . . . .etc. (the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt because it was a regime based on hate and hate alone)!
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No, not by hate and hate alone. It makes it easier to understand if you look at it that way. And maybe the upper part of the party was that way, with Hitler, Himmler Etc. But many complied not out of hate, but out of fear, ignorance, family, and pressure. But if you think about it, those are probably some of the top reasons for the slaughter of babies in the USA. You should read some books on WWII. The Pope’s (BXVI) brother wrote a book called “My Brother the Pope” in which he dedicates at least a couple of chapters to the Nazis and the camps and the war. (he was wounded by the Americans)

Anytime someone says this
Abortion is evil, but
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Nothing true will follow. There is no but after “abortion is evil” I cannot think of a bigger evil than having mothers slaughter their own babies. Not even the concentration camps.
 
The problem with this thread is that too many posters hold to a black and white ideal, when in reality there is a lot more gray. It is not that society–Russian, USA, or any other–is morally bankrupt rather, it is much more nuanced that black or white.

The moral obligation of government is to “…balance society’s interest in enforcing conformity to certain rules against an interest in protecting people from too many restrictions in how they choose to live their lives and pursue their goals. The moral bar may thus be set either too high or too low. Still, by recognizing the difference between what our moral obligations are and what there is moral reason to want them to be, we may have a better chance of evolving into a society in which these two categories more closely coincide.”
I am not happy at all with the direction that the US is taking but I would rather live in the US, with all its deficiencies, than most other places in the world. If I were younger I would probably choose a Carribiean Island. :o
 
josie_L said:
Are you kidding me?? Abortion is evil, but the context in which it is done (those who are getting the abortion) is not the same as the reasoning behind killing 6 million Jews, and 3 and half million Poles . . . .etc. (the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt because it was a regime based on hate and hate alone)!
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God abhors child sacrifice and always has. He is also not interested in people’s opinions to diminish this, sorry.
 
danharte said:
Yes at the moment but if Putin & the Russian government are as clever as I think they are & the words he recently spoke earlier this week are any thing to go by then I predict a Russian baby boom God willing
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Amen! I think it is apparent that the Virgin Mary has accepted Russia consecration.
 
Catolico65 said:
God abhors child sacrifice and always has. He is also not interested in people’s opinions to diminish this, sorry.
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I am not trying to diminish the evils of abortion, i.e., I am saying one should not compare the Nazis to present day American society, i.e., the Nazi regime, as befits the ideology, was based on hate (and there were abortions in Nazi Germany as well, including forced sterilizations of various groups).

p.s. God is also not interested in people accusing others of things they aren’t actually saying!

God bless!
 
I would say that the United States is definitely more godless than Russia at this point in time. What with several states having legalized “gay marriage”, abortion being legal in all 50 states, and several other disgustingly immoral laws I would have to say that the United States is much more godless than Russia is at this point in time. That really saddens me. I really think that we all need to pray and fast for the conversion of our nation back to God.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
No, not by hate and hate alone. It makes it easier to understand if you look at it that way. And maybe the upper part of the party was that way, with Hitler, Himmler Etc. But many complied not out of hate, but out of fear, ignorance, family, and pressure. But if you think about it, those are probably some of the top reasons for the slaughter of babies in the USA. You should read some books on WWII. The Pope’s (BXVI) brother wrote a book called “My Brother the Pope” in which he dedicates at least a couple of chapters to the Nazis and the camps and the war. (he was wounded by the Americans)
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Yes, hate, i.e., the Nazi regime was based on hatred because the Nazi ideology was/is based on hatred. There were/are few societies/ideologies that were/are as evil as the one that led to WWII, so stating that present day America is equivalent to or even worse than the Nazi regime is absolutely. . . .
Nothing true will follow. There is no but after “abortion is evil” I cannot think of a bigger evil than having mothers slaughter their own babies. Not even the concentration camps.
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Both are morally repugnant, and as such deserve our condemnation, i.e., my point was not to downgrade the evil of abortion but to argue that the things being done in Nazi Germany were a result of a horribly evil ideology, i.e., there were no redeeming qualities of the Nazi regime, none whatsoever. It truly was a morally bankrupt government/society, and had Nazi Germany not been defeated by the allies, well, I can’t even begin to imagine what society/life would be like, but it sure as heck would be worse than our present state.

p.s. I don’t think what we’re doing right now is very fruitful, i.e., I’d much rather pray for an end to abortion than quibble, so, hopefully, this will be my last post on this thread.
 
josie_L said:
Yes, hate, i.e., the Nazi regime was based on hatred because the Nazi ideology was/is based on hatred. There were/are few societies/ideologies that were/are as evil as the one that led to WWII, so stating that present day America is equivalent to or even worse than the Nazi regime is absolutely. . . .

Both are morally repugnant, and as such deserve our condemnation, i.e., my point was not to downgrade the evil of abortion but to argue that the things being done in Nazi Germany were a result of a horribly evil ideology, i.e., there were no redeeming qualities of the Nazi regime, none whatsoever. It truly was a morally bankrupt government/society, and had Nazi Germany not been defeated by the allies, well, I can’t even begin to imagine what society/life would be like, but it sure as heck would be worse than our present state.

p.s. I don’t think what we’re doing right now is very fruitful, i.e., I’d much rather pray for an end to abortion than quibble, so, hopefully, this will be my last post on this thread.
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It is a subject for another thread. But, as a lover of history, I must tell you that your opinion is not based in historical knowledge. From the Egyptians of biblical times, to the mongol societies, to even the slavery that built the New World, the ways of the Nazis were had by many societies. And you would do well to understand why a German of the time either participated in the mindset, or just believed the propaganda. If you study the situation and the Nazis in general there is a very real parallel to today’s holocaust. From the Doctors and Nurses being like camp guards, to the propaganda fed masses not knowing the real evils. Rarely is the Nazi card played so aptly as in the case of western abortion. But it is real easy to say “oh, those people were more hateful/worse than us!”
I’m sure many Germans thought that way as well.🤷
 
MODERATOR REMINDER

This is not meant to tap down discussion, this is an important issue and should be discussed. I encourage all of you to keep discussing it. As you do, remember these rules:

Please stay on topic

Please post charitably at all times

Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other

Comparing anyone with the Nazis is unproductive, ref: Godwin’s Law
 
Tomdstone said:
In the Jewish holocaust there were six million Jews killed, although some estimates say fewer, and that was proof that the Nazi regime was morally bankrupt. But in the USA, there were 50 million abortions since RvW. That could have been 50 million people now living and breathing in the USA? Doesn’t that prove that the USA is at least 8 times more morally corrupt than Nazi Germany ever was?
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VERY BIG THUMBS UP!!!

I have never thought about it like that, and now see the US in a much different light!

what hypocrites anyone here is to speak ill about the Nazis and anything they did.
 
Abortion is not just an American evil, but a global evil. I am not anti-science by any stretch, but if one wants to know the source for the idea of abortion being a good thing, and not an evil, it lies in the logic and the reasoning that comes from scientists and the materialistic attitudes that come from the belief that science alone is the source for truth.

Science examines the problem of such things as genetic diseases and defects, and proposes abortion as a rational means of fixing these things, from Tay Sachs to Down’s Syndrome. Science takes note of racial and class disparity and notes how expensive children are to raise, Again the reasoning is that abortion is a rational fix to these problems. It works well for everybody that finds having a baby at a particular time is going to be economically problematic.

Americans are no more subject to scientific materialism when it comes to abortion than anyone else, and certainly Russia cannot point the finger at America on that regard. America was the one country in the developed world, including Russia, that had been dragging its feet on the issue of regarding children as economic liabilities.

Children are economic liabilities, for individual families and for socialized states at least. One has to look to a higher set of values than ones based in materialistic reasoning to see the reasons why children are the most valuable resource for both families and nations.

In terms of abortion, some Russians have finally arrived at the point that the pro-life movement and the Republican party had already arrived at twenty or more years ago.

Russia, I think, is making a mistake by tying the institution of church so closely in with the state. This may well have been the traditional way of doing things in Russia and the Byzantine, as it became in the national churches of Western Europe as well. America was very much a unique case in creating a trend in which people chose the correct spiritual path for themselves, rather than allowing spirituality to become an official government program. Churches are still much more vibrant in America than they are anywhere else in the developed world and a lot of that is because Americans choose for themselves their own religion rather than have government impose it. One only has to look at Iran and how the efforts of the Ayatollahs of imposing their religion on Iran is having the direct opposite effect, and the Iranian people are the most secular now in all of the Middle East. The USSR severely weakened their Church during their twentieth century terror against the religious. It is a double edged sword though for the government to now be deciding that religion is a good thing and making that choice for their people.
 
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