Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S

[Seamus_L]

People around the world have been praying for the conversion of Russia for several decades now. Pretty hard to imagine, though some people obviously do, that it’s had little or no effect.

 

[Tomdstone]

One question for the pro-Russia folks. What is Putin doing to promote Christian values besides opposing gay rights (which isn’t a Christian value in my opinion)?

He is supporting the restoration of the Orthodox Church.
He has supported legislation aimed at reducing abortions in Russia.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Putin and Russia are 1000% correct on this.

The United States is morally bankrupt. Just today on CNN there is an article of why there are no homosexual Disney characters and how there may be lawsuits coming. At the Grammys the other night, Katy Perry demostrated Satanic rituals to the whole country. The governments have allowed people to accept sodomy and abortion, yet question religion, morals, and God himself.

Some may cry about Russian boogeymen like KGB or being cruel to homosexuals and outlawing them for 100 years. Read the law properly. Russia has outlawed homosexual propaganda in public for 100 years. If that’s too much for you to take, maybe you should try San Francisco’s Gay Pride parade. Open sodomy all on the public streets and in the open. It’s disgusting. Do I hate them? No, I pity them and wish they would change.

It’s legal to engage in public sexual intercourse in the streets of San Francisco? That’s what you are claiming with “Open sodomy all on the public streets…”

Also, “the governments have allowed people to accept sodomy and abortion”- so it’s the government’s job to dictate morality? And people wouldn’t do something or accept something (like, I don’t know, driving 5 miles over the speed limit not really counting as speeding) if the government said you couldn’t do it (45mph means 45mph, not “keep it under 51mph”)? Well if it’s the government’s job to determine what is moral, I guess we don’t actually need religion or God.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

He is supporting the restoration of the Orthodox Church.
He has supported legislation aimed at reducing abortions in Russia.

Apparently the author of the article in the OP doesn’t support the idea of him being a big fan of the Orthodox Church.

 

[Catolico65]

It’s legal to engage in public sexual intercourse in the streets of San Francisco? That’s what you are claiming with “Open sodomy all on the public streets…”

Also, “the governments have allowed people to accept sodomy and abortion”- so it’s the government’s job to dictate morality? And people wouldn’t do something or accept something (like, I don’t know, driving 5 miles over the speed limit not really counting as speeding) if the government said you couldn’t do it (45mph means 45mph, not “keep it under 51mph”)? Well if it’s the government’s job to determine what is moral, I guess we don’t actually need religion or God.

In a democracy a government’s laws reflect the current values of it’s citizens, hence our problem. As Christians we are always called to promote good in every aspect of life, including public and are called to resist godless applications of secularism such as “separation of church and state”.

 

[josie_L]

You are engaging in the american equivalent of conspiracy theory. please provide facts for the government supporting these things.

Since yes, I do think the president of the US who supports infanticide, uses bully tactics, and attacks dissenters is inferior morally to almost any other western leader, including Putin’s attempt to stop gay pride parades, we are probably at an impasse.

I never said that Obama was a moral man, i.e., I view him as immoral, moreover, do you see Putin advocating for pro-life policies??? Is he planning to reverse abortion legislation? So what makes Putin better than Obama (I like neither)? I would rather though be living in America than Russia, hands down (and I’m Canadian).

p.s. I don’t have to provide you facts, i.e., these things are knowable by any and all who search the Internet.

p.p.s. And the irony of your comments about Obama’s bullying tactics (which I do not deny), while altogether ignoring Putin’s bullying tactics (not only in Russia but elsewhere).

 

[Tomdstone]

Apparently the author of the article in the OP doesn’t support the idea of him being a big fan of the Orthodox Church.

Additionally, Putin is supporting the Christians in Syria. This contrasts with the USA which has been giving weapons to the rebels which are composed, in part, of fanatical anti-Christian Muslim groups. If the past is any guide, these fanatical Muslim groups in Syria will make every effort to suppress Christianity.

 

[josie_L]

Putin and Russia are 1000% correct on this.

The United States is morally bankrupt. Just today on CNN there is an article of why there are no homosexual Disney characters and how there may be lawsuits coming. At the Grammys the other night, Katy Perry demostrated Satanic rituals to the whole country. The governments have allowed people to accept sodomy and abortion, yet question religion, morals, and God himself.

Some may cry about Russian boogeymen like KGB or being cruel to homosexuals and outlawing them for 100 years. Read the law properly. Russia has outlawed homosexual propaganda in public for 100 years. If that’s too much for you to take, maybe you should try San Francisco’s Gay Pride parade. Open sodomy all on the public streets and in the open. It’s disgusting. Do I hate them? No, I pity them and wish they would change.

The United States is not morally bankrupt, i.e., they are many Americans who are attempting to make things better (your present government however is pursuing an immoral course).

p.s. Just look at the pro-life advocates and all they are accomplishing, i.e., more and more clinics are closing and more and more people are becoming pro-life.

 

[Tomdstone]

The United States is not morally bankrupt,…

It is not morally bankrupt to legalize same sex marriage and allow pro-homosexual propaganda to be distributed to children? PS. President Putin has outlawed the latter.

 

[josie_L]

It’s legal to engage in public sexual intercourse in the streets of San Francisco? That’s what you are claiming with “Open sodomy all on the public streets…”

Also, “the governments have allowed people to accept sodomy and abortion”- so it’s the government’s job to dictate morality? And people wouldn’t do something or accept something (like, I don’t know, driving 5 miles over the speed limit not really counting as speeding) if the government said you couldn’t do it (45mph means 45mph, not “keep it under 51mph”)? Well if it’s the government’s job to determine what is moral, I guess we don’t actually need religion or God.

It is not the government’s job to determine morality, and all Americans know this (although I know you meant this rhetorically, and thus am agreeing with you).

p.s. I don’t like how people are lauding Putin, moreover, I think our Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, is thus far the best Western leader.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Additionally, Putin is supporting the Christians in Syria. This contrasts with the USA which has been giving weapons to the rebels which are composed, in part, of fanatical anti-Christian Muslim groups. If the past is any guide, these fanatical Muslim groups in Syria will make every effort to suppress Christianity.

-I don’t know who Putin personally supports in Syria, but his government is supporting the Syrian government, not the Syrian Christians.
-So bad on the US for providing aid to a loose organization of groups some of whom are terrorists, but “good job” for Russia for supporting a government that has a long history of repressing it’s own people and sponsoring terrorism is other states?

 

[punisherthunder]

The United States is not morally bankrupt, i.e., they are many Americans who are attempting to make things better (your present government however is pursuing an immoral course).

p.s. Just look at the pro-life advocates and all they are accomplishing, i.e., more and more clinics are closing and more and more people are becoming pro-life.

1. I didn’t vote for any of these current people in gov’t.
2. Atheism is on the rise.
3. Bible says that good is called evil and evil is called good near the end of Times, which we most certainly are in.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

1. I didn’t vote for any of these current people in gov’t.
2. Atheism is on the rise.
3. Bible says that good is called evil and evil is called good near the end of Times, which we most certainly are in.

Your duties and responsibilities as a citizen do not end at the ballot box.

 

[johnnyc176]

I guess to me there’s a lot more to Christianity than homosexuality.

Of course there is a lot more to Christianity but one who focuses only on social justice is also doing the same that you seem to be alluding to…namely favoring one teaching of Jesus over another. Should we only focus on the economic health of people and not their spiritual and moral health?

What exactly is wrong with recognition of rights for sexual minorities.

If the rights that you feel we should be accepting of are damaging to the soul how can the Church approve of that? We are called to spread the whole Gospel and that includes the Church’s moral teaching as Pope Francis mentions here…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=856076

“Essential in this regard,” he continued, “is the uncompromising witness of Catholic universities to the Church’s moral teaching, and the defense of her freedom, precisely in and through her institutions, to uphold that teaching as authoritatively proclaimed by the magisterium of her pastors.” Pope Francis said, “It is my hope that the University of Notre Dame will continue to offer unambiguous testimony to this aspect of its foundational Catholic identity, especially in the face of efforts, from whatever quarter, to dilute that indispensable witness.”

Jesus said “Neither do I condemn you (compassion). Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (conversion).” John 8:11

 

[josie_L]

It is not morally bankrupt to legalize same sex marriage and allow pro-homosexual propaganda to be distributed to children? PS. President Putin has outlawed the latter.

There are many states that still do not allow it, moreover, I never said the U.S. was some sort of moral utopia, but it is not morally bankrupt either (and I sure as heck will not put Russia on a pedestal as some of you have). And Putin has done more than outlawed pro-homosexual propaganda vis a vis children in school, i.e., this has essentially gagged homosexuals from holding public demonstrations/assemblies (whenever a government does this people should be worried, i.e., who knows who’ll be next).

p.s. Wasn’t the Nazi platform anti-gay (although I know that there were those in the Nazi party that were homosexuals)?

 

[josie_L]

I think this is totally unfair, and misrepresenting the entire situation of that hostage crisis. Someone reading this might think the Russian authorities just slaughtered civilians haphazardly.

You are referring to the Moscow theater hostage crisis. And for those who don’t know about it, Chechen terrorists, including suicide bombers held those (I believe 850 or so) in the theater hostage. Any attempt by the Russian authorities to storm the building and save the hostages would have meant the suicide bombers would detonate their bombs, killing all of the hostages. The Russian plan to end the standoff was to pump a chemical into the ventilation system to subdue the terrorists, the chemical ended up killing nearly all of the terrorists, and unfortunately 130 civilians died as well (but many more lived of the 850 I believe). The use of this tactic was criticized, but honestly, what wiggle room was there?

I can’t imagine many more complicated moral dilemmas than this. Try to storm the building conventionally, and you risk everyone dying, give in to their demands and who knows if they keep their word. I really don’t see how people can say this is a clear black mark on Putin’s record. I think drone strikes, which kill civilians and are chalked up as collateral damage have more room for moral criticism than the method used to take down these terrorists.

They could have lied to the terrorists by pretending to give into their demands and/or give into their demands (get out of Chechnya, for the time being anyways), i.e., violence was not the only recourse to free those hostages. Apparently, this was recorded by one of the hostages when the gas filtered in:

Hostage Anna Andrianova, a correspondent for Moskovskaya Pravda, called Echo of Moscow radio studio and told on-air in a live broadcast interview that the government forces had begun an operation by pumping gas into the hall:

“It seems to us that the Russians have started something. Please, give us a chance. If you can do anything, please do! … I don’t know which gas it is. But I see [the Chechens’] reactions. They don’t want our deaths, and our officials want none of us to leave alive! I don’t know. We see it, we feel it, we are breathing through our clothes. … It began from outside. That’s what our government has decided — that no one should leave from here alive. …"[36]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

 

[oldcatholicguy]

They could have lied to the terrorists by pretending to give into their demands and/or give into their demands (get out of Chechnya, for the time being anyways), i.e., violence was not the only recourse to free those hostages. Apparently, this was recorded by one of the hostages when the gas filtered in:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

From the statement put out by the terrorists (found on your link)- “And we will take with us the lives of hundreds of sinners.”

From the same link- Moskovskij Komsomolets cited a Russian special forces operative saying that “if it were a usual storming, we’d have had 150 casualties among our men, added to the hostages.”

The only real controversy over the incident seems to be that the Russians used gas and that there was a cover up afterwards (either over the use of the gas, mistakes made during the operation, some of the terrorists getting away).

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I never said that Obama was a moral man, i.e., I view him as immoral, moreover, do you see Putin advocating for pro-life policies??? Is he planning to reverse abortion legislation? So what makes Putin better than Obama (I like neither)? I would rather though be living in America than Russia, hands down (and I’m Canadian).

p.s. I don’t have to provide you facts, i.e., these things are knowable by any and all who search the Internet.

p.p.s. And the irony of your comments about Obama’s bullying tactics (which I do not deny), while altogether ignoring Putin’s bullying tactics (not only in Russia but elsewhere).

Since you do not have to provide facts because of the internet. Here you go.:

lifesitenews.com/news/russia-chooses-life-bans-all-abortion-advertising

lifesitenews.com/news/vladimir-putin-signs-bill-protecting-children-from-homosexual-propaganda

lifesitenews.com/news/russia-will-deport-foreigners-for-homosexual-propaganda-duma-passes-bill-43

thefederalist-gary.blogspot.com/2013/12/vladimir-putin-signs-anti-abortion-bill.html

not only that but
independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/skip-work-have-sex-russians-celebrate-day-of-conception-as-sporting-community-continues-to-criticise-putins-antigay-legislation-8812840.html

Hmmm Sounds pretty pro life to me More pro life than obama. Can you imagine obama doing this?

Then we have this for the Christians.
lifesitenews.com/news/world-leaders-should-unite-to-end-anti-christian-persecution-vladimir-putin

Id call that a home run on all your topics.

All I had to do was find them on the internet. So now they are knowable to you.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

There are many states that still do not allow it, moreover, I never said the U.S. was some sort of moral utopia, but it is not morally bankrupt either (and I sure as heck will not put Russia on a pedestal as some of you have). And Putin has done more than outlawed pro-homosexual propaganda vis a vis children in school, i.e., this has essentially gagged homosexuals from holding public demonstrations/assemblies (whenever a government does this people should be worried, i.e., who knows who’ll be next).

p.s. Wasn’t the Nazi platform anti-gay (although I know that there were those in the Nazi party that were homosexuals)?

95 posts until the Nazis are involved. Pretty good.

How has putin done more than protected children and prevented gay propaganda? I’m still waiting for more than just your say so.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It is not the government’s job to determine morality, and all Americans know this (although I know you meant this rhetorically, and thus am agreeing with you).

p.s. I don’t like how people are lauding Putin, moreover, I think our Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, is thus far the best Western leader.

Though we could argue what makes a Western Leader. (sorry canada but you are not leading anyone) (Just joking) it is worth it to note that your leader has chosen not to act in a pro life manner and your government I believe pays for all abortions. So Putins record on the killing of babies is better than your leader. Just sayin…