Who are the deserving poor?

[whatevergirl]

Again, how do you determine who gets the aid or doesn’t? Do you make judgement calls based on morality? WHo determines what is moral? I know that as a more liberal Christian, I may have different values than a conservative Christian? or an Atheist? etc. Who’s set of morals do we use to evaluate each situation?

also, for the woman who gets knocked up twice, by two different men: do we give her health insurance and food for the first child, but when she has the second say, "Well! We thought you just made a mistake before and were deserving of our help. But now, we see that you are obviously a slut, so your second and third children will do without. (while the first is receiving benefits? or do you take the benefits away from all the children?)

Do you see the slippery slope that happens when you get into this sort of thing?

I think being proactive instead of reactive, is a start, for our government. Many people need education to help them make better decisions…to know that they don’t need to have babies just to make money or to survive. That marriage is important…to not have a baby without a husband…etc…these are things that some of us know and take for granted, but many people are not taught this growing up. I think continuously putting a bandaid on a shot gun wound, isn’t the answer. We need to offer some preventative help–and see if that works. It takes time, and effort…but maybe put money into the public school system, or boys and girls of america clubs, etc…to educate boys and girls to something other than ‘getting by,’ would be a good start. Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[Man]

I think being proactive instead of reactive, is a start, for our government. Many people need education to help them make better decisions…to know that they don’t need to have babies just to make money or to survive. That marriage is important…to not have a baby without a husband…etc…these are things that some of us know and take for granted, but many people are not taught this growing up. I think continuously putting a bandaid on a shot gun wound, isn’t the answer. We need to offer some preventative help–and see if that works. It takes time, and effort…but maybe put money into the public school system, or boys and girls of america clubs, etc…to educate boys and girls to something other than ‘getting by,’ would be a good start. Just throwing some ideas out there.

Unfortunately money for schools is over-rated. Money for teachers is under-rated. Assistance to parents would be the lubrication here, for the children.

 

[whatevergirl]

Unfortunately money for schools is over-rated. Money for teachers is under-rated. Assistance to parents would be the lubrication here, for the children.

Yes…unfortunately, for many kids–their parents don’t care much. Not sure if you can teach a parent to truly love his/her child…or unteach all the damage they were taught. But, I agree with you.

 

[Man]

The key is to shift things, using charity, from “right” or “privilege” into “responsibility”.

It is a cultural change, not just a tax law, or spending bill.

 

[Man]

Yes…unfortunately, for many kids–their parents don’t care much. Not sure if you can teach a parent to truly love his/her child…or unteach all the damage they were taught. But, I agree with you.

Sometimes, it is just as likely to pay off to let a single parent stay at home as it would to put them to work.
Better, to send them to school and support the children’s life style, with day care, for instance, which would be impossible to afford. (Yes, there are programs for that).

Most needs are met in our economy by the various non-profits that exist. It is a matter of properly funding them.

When the children are blamed for existing that we have problems. It is easy to blame a single parent for her position, but taking her child will no more help her than the abortion. There is something else wrong that needs to be discerned. And whatever it is that needs to be done needs to be facilitated.

You don’t just give them money, you let your alms perspire in you hand. You help them discern…

 

[whatevergirl]

Sometimes, it is just as likely to pay off to let a single parent stay at home as it would to put them to work.
Better, to send them to school and support the children’s life style, with day care, for instance, which would be impossible to afford. (Yes, there are programs for that).

Most needs are met in our economy by the various non-profits that exist. It is a matter of properly funding them.

When the children are blamed for existing that we have problems. It is easy to blame a single parent for her position, but taking her child will no more help her than the abortion. There is something else wrong that needs to be discerned. And whatever it is that needs to be done needs to be facilitated.

You don’t just give them money, you let your alms perspire in you hand. You help them discern…

i agree

 

[Trader]

Unfortunately money for schools is over-rated. Money for teachers is under-rated. Assistance to parents would be the lubrication here, for the children.

And what if we gave the parents vouchers so they could choose a good school instead of a bad one?

I feel Vern jumping all over that one. It would destroy the public school system as we know it–not necessarily a bad thing. Just look at the graduation rates and test scores for public and private schools.

Personally I am even more radical, although this would have to be a thought experiment. It would never happen in real life. What if public schools charged tuition to cover their acutal costs? Where I live now parents would have the choice of two Catholic high schools with 94% graduation rates for $5000 or our two newly renovated public schools with graduation rates of 66% that are on academic probation with the state and would have to charge more than $10,000 in tuition. The two public schools do have very nice swimming pools, but after spending so much money on renovations, the district didn’t have enough money left to hire full time lifeguards and one of the freshmen drowned. Now the pool is mostly used only for formal classes and interscholastic meets. The majority of the public that paid for the pool is not allowed to use it.

 

[chicago]

may I remind you this is what we earned last year to be exact $29,569, want to see my tax return we live just fine and don’t waste. 30 years ago I was 17.

30K in Tennessee still goes a LOT further than it will in many urban areas where the working poor or even welfare poor (who are often centered in such epicenters) have to try and live on much less in a more expensive environment.

 

[boppaid]

Sometimes, it is just as likely to pay off to let a single parent stay at home as it would to put them to work.
Better, to send them to school and support the children’s life style, with day care, for instance, which would be impossible to afford. (Yes, there are programs for that).

Most needs are met in our economy by the various non-profits that exist. It is a matter of properly funding them.

When the children are blamed for existing that we have problems. It is easy to blame a single parent for her position, but taking her child will no more help her than the abortion. There is something else wrong that needs to be discerned. And whatever it is that needs to be done needs to be facilitated.

You don’t just give them money, you let your alms perspire in you hand. You help them discern…

Beautiful post.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

She could talk with someone at the chamber of commerce of the city where the University is and/or the University itself. There could be a program for the student’s children on-campus or a non-profit for assisting people in this same situation. Often, student loans will assist with housing. They have very affordable interest rates, and fairly easy criteria for differing interest.

Hi,

I spoke with her today and told her I would help her with college. Find out info. anyway. She says she has access to a computer so I will find info. for her and she can go from there. The IHN program does help her alot but there is always something(usually the state)that comes up and knocks her down again. It is frustrating. God will help me help her.

Thanks for the info. BTW

 

[jabelltulsa]

When there are good reasons, or even bad reasons, why the parents cannot provide for their children, the responibility radiates out from the family model. Grandparents, adult siblings, aunts and uncles, cousins, etc are the first line of help. Next comes neighbors and the church, and other voluntary organizations. Last in line is government, local, state, and federal in that order.

Exactly

 

[jabelltulsa]

And what if we gave the parents vouchers so they could choose a good school instead of a bad one?

I feel Vern jumping all over that one. It would destroy the public school system as we know it–not necessarily a bad thing. Just look at the graduation rates and test scores for public and private schools.

Personally I am even more radical, although this would have to be a thought experiment. It would never happen in real life. What if public schools charged tuition to cover their acutal costs? Where I live now parents would have the choice of two Catholic high schools with 94% graduation rates for $5000 or our two newly renovated public schools with graduation rates of 66% that are on academic probation with the state and would have to charge more than $10,000 in tuition. The two public schools do have very nice swimming pools, but after spending so much money on renovations, the district didn’t have enough money left to hire full time lifeguards and one of the freshmen drowned. Now the pool is mostly used only for formal classes and interscholastic meets. The majority of the public that paid for the pool is not allowed to use it.

Good post.

What if private schools didn’t have to compete with FREE education. I believe that the price for tuition would go way down.

Right now, I am looking at having to spend nearly $10,000 a year to send my kids to a good school. The tax dollars I spend educating (or whatever) other kids could be better spent on my own children.

I see a system where we have all private education, with scholarships for those who cannot afford the tuition. I would contribute much to the fund to help those who couldn’t afford it, as long as I wasn’t throwing a lot of my money away on state funded schools. (did I mention our schools are terrible here?)

Right now, we have to save every dime just to get ready for the expensive process of giving my future children a good education. (getting married next April)

 

[vern_humphrey]

Good post.

What if private schools didn’t have to compete with FREE education. I believe that the price for tuition would go way down.

Right now, I am looking at having to spend nearly $10,000 a year to send my kids to a good school. The tax dollars I spend educating (or whatever) other kids could be better spent on my own children.

I see a system where we have all private education, with scholarships for those who cannot afford the tuition. I would contribute much to the fund to help those who couldn’t afford it, as long as I wasn’t throwing a lot of my money away on state funded schools. (did I mention our schools are terrible here?)

Right now, we have to save every dime just to get ready for the expensive process of giving my future children a good education. (getting married next April)

Actually, my proposal is simple and represents a paradigm shift. While I agree we should pay for the education of the children, that doesn’t mean the government needs to own schools or hire teachers.

Let us divide the education budget by the number of students and pay 90 - 95% of that amount to the school the parents choose. Let good schools thrive and bad ones die.

 

[Trader]

Good post.

What if private schools didn’t have to compete with FREE education. I believe that the price for tuition would go way down.

I wish that would happen, but unless the existing private schools were underutilized, the tuition would probably rise from increased demand. It would still be a lot lower that what public schools spend now.

I would like to put in a plug for my old high school, Benet Academy in Lisle, Illinois. It is in a pretty affluent area but only charges $6800 for tuition. In a state where everyone is required to take the ACT test, they have had a class wide average of at least 28.0 for the last four years on the composite. The public schools in the area are pretty good, but still spend a lot more for results are a lot worse. The bad news is that they have to reject 1000 applicants every year. They only have space for 300 freshmen each year.

Congratulaions on your upcoming wedding. It looks like you are still the old fashioned kind who gets married before the kids are old enough to be witnesses. Here in Indiana we are getting 40% of babies born to unmarried mothers. Is it any wonder the schools are terrible?

I know the public schools will never be as good as the private schools, but would it hurt for them to learn something the schools that are working? We know what works in education. Standards work. Accountability works. And most importantly parental involvement works.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I wish that would happen, but unless the existing private schools were underutilized, the tuition would probably rise from increased demand. It would still be a lot lower that what public schools spend now.

I noticed a funny thing – there are no Public Fast Food Joints. Yet somehow or other, there are privately owned and operated fast food joints everywhere. And while just about everyone goes to them, the prices don’t rise from increased demand – in fact, if one fast food joint is charging too much, another one will move in and compete with them.

And an even funnier thing – it works that way with hardware stores, grocery stores, automobile dealers, and so on, too.

 

[Trader]

Actually there are some publicly owned fast food joints. They are our public school cafeterias. Somehow it is now the schools’ job to feed students both breakfast and lunch. They do such a wonderful job that our childhood obesity rates are plummeting–NOT.

One reason I said that tuition would have to go up is that the supply of priests, brothers and nuns who work for essentially nothing is already fully employed. There would also have to be some capital expenditures to accomodate all the new students fleeing the public schools. That would be partly offset because the existing public school buildings would be empty and for sale at fire sale prices.

 

[cynic]

never heard such a load of hard right rhetoric. The opinions here are obviously biased towards those who have the time and means to sit in front of computer, ie middle managers in their offices, those with computers at home. On one hand you all want a large pool of labour that can be employed very cheaply, with little or no rights and job security. On the other, you don’t want to pay any tax to help provide healthcare or education for them and their children. It’s really a no-win for the low incomes out there.

 

[Man]

never heard such a load of hard right rhetoric. The opinions here are obviously biased towards those who have the time and means to sit in front of computer, ie middle managers in their offices, those with computers at home. On one hand you all want a large pool of labour that can be employed very cheaply, with little or no rights and job security. On the other, you don’t want to pay any tax to help provide healthcare or education for them and their children. It’s really a no-win for the low incomes out there.

The US system would work a lot better if we stopped spending our money on hard infrastructure and spent it on soft infrastructure instead. Unfortunately this could take 5 years to start to pay off.

I assure you that there are plenty of teachers out there that could teach five children massive amounts and as fast as they could learn for $50,000. And with the newest books every year…

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually there are some publicly owned fast food joints. They are our public school cafeterias. Somehow it is now the schools’ job to feed students both breakfast and lunch. They do such a wonderful job that our childhood obesity rates are plummeting–NOT.

Ah, the old government reverse Midas touch again.

One reason I said that tuition would have to go up is that the supply of priests, brothers and nuns who work for essentially nothing is already fully employed. There would also have to be some capital expenditures to accomodate all the new students fleeing the public schools. That would be partly offset because the existing public school buildings would be empty and for sale at fire sale prices.

The company I worked for did the Basic Skills Education Program (BSEP) for the Armed Forces. We used Computer-aided instruction (CAI) to upgrade the reading, writing and math skills of military personnel – basically fixing what the Public Schools broke.

And it worked (if it hadn’t, we wouldn’t have got paid.)

In my new paradign, I envision a lot of CAI – and nodal schools. Some parent in South Succotash signs on for a home-schooling mode. We check and find more nearby parents. We hook them up and assiste them in starting their own school.

Our teachers are not conventional teachers – they are trained in the system we use. They may be parents, grandparents, retired people, and so on.

I know sergeants with GEDs can run such a school – I’ve set them up.

 

[Trader]

never heard such a load of hard right rhetoric. The opinions here are obviously biased towards those who have the time and means to sit in front of computer, ie middle managers in their offices, those with computers at home. On one hand you all want a large pool of labour that can be employed very cheaply, with little or no rights and job security. On the other, you don’t want to pay any tax to help provide healthcare or education for them and their children. It’s really a no-win for the low incomes out there.

You are partly right. I do own a computer.

On the rest, you are way off. I want all children to be well educated and healthy so they can be productive and pay for their own children. I don’t want a lot of low paid workers, I want a lot of workers who can demand high wages because they have skills that are worth high wages. Many of them will create products no one else has yet thought of, and we will all live better because of that.