Who can deny that the evils in this world help to separate us from God?

[Robert_Sock]

Hi, Robert!

I think that the issue is how “hate” and “love” are interpreted.

Jesus Commands that His Followers “love” one another; He clearly states that by Loving (in Christ) one another they would Witness to the world that Christ in deed Came and Lived Among us (Immanuel).

Jesus Commands that His Followers “hate” Life and the world; He clearly states that unless this is done they cannot be His Disciples.

While these “love” and “hate” Commands seem to be contradicting, they are actually complementing: Christ’s Followers/Disciples must Love God Above All and their neighbors as themselves (Christians must Love Life) while, simultaneously, they must “hate” everything, including Life and the world, that keeps/removes them from God.

Yes, there’s evil in the world. Yet, evil in itself does not remove/keep us from God unless we are willing participants of that evil; that is, we must willingly embrace evil.

There are thing in the world that are overtly evil–most Believers are able to keep themselves from embracing such openly unrighteous things… however, there are those things that are not clearly evil… they may even seem benign, at first; these are the things that usually hook Believers…

Jesus Commands that we “hate” things in Life that keep/removes us from God while still embracing the good things which Divine Providence brings onto Life.

I fully concur with you that Satan uses temporal means to derail God’s Salvific Plan by luring Believers away from God.

But we must not live in the “fear” of evil but in the Trust of God.

Maran atha!

Angel

Are you implying that we can be fully united with God in this world if we so choose?

 

[jcrichton]

Let me know if I got this correct: you condemn materialism but maintain that loving your life in a world of materialism is perfectly fine.

Hi, Robert!

Why did Scriptures state that John was the Disciple loved by the Lord (Jesus)?

Was John pure and unable to sin?

Everything and everyone in this world that keeps/separate us from God is not good to us–this makes the world/life evil.

Yet, evil in itself does not harm the Believer unless he/she embraces it.

There are people in the world that spend thousands of dollars on their pets–some of these live in the lap of luxury while people like me struggle daily, without security or the dimmest glimpse of stability in their lives… evil is there just outside of our reach… do we embrace it or do we reject it?

I choose to reject it. I suffer everything in the Name of Christ. I keep my Hope trained on Christ.

Yes, I could do things to get easy money… yes, I could take revenge upon those who malign and hurt me… but how would I be any different from the evil that is in the world?

I must Walk in the Light by being a doer of the Word and not just a listener!

We must engage the world from Christ’s Commands and in Christ’s perspectives!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Perfect, perfect response. Thank you.
So darned ungrateful for the sheer lovingkindness of the Lord here

Not reading any more as it will drag me down.

Hi, Rose!

…could you expand on your response?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Divine filiation is a joyful truth, a consoling mystery. It fills all our spiritual life, it shows us how to speak to God, to know and to love our Father in heaven. And it makes our interior struggle overflow with hope and gives us the trusting simplicity of little children. More than that: precisely because we are children of God, we can contemplate in love and wonder everything as coming from the hands of our Father, God the Creator. And so we become contemplatives in the middle of the world, loving the world.”

~ St. Josemaria Escriva (Christ is Passing By). (emp added)

www.escrivaworks.org

We are to love the good of the world. Find God indeed in ordinary life, in ordinary human events and the good things God has given us. The good of life. And we are also to reject the evil in the world…that which is “of the world” (a phrase which has a very particular sense and should not be confused with the other uses of the term).

World in Scripture and the Church has various senses.

We are to be in the world but not “of the world”. That later sense is referring to that which is of “sin”. Not that which is of creation and good things in human life. If one keeps in mind that there are different senses of the use of the term “the world” one can avoid mistaking one sense for the other. God so loved the world… vs “the world” in the pejorative sense.

Yes, as I said many times, it’s good to love the good that exists in the world. But to love our living in a world of exile, where we cannot become fully united with God no matter how much we want or try, I just cannot accept that logic.

 

[ANV]

I think that if any god exists he must be evil, I don’t think the evil in this world seperates us from God, it must go with his nature.

 

[ANV]

Is there any Christian who does not hate evil? If so, isn’t it only logical that we also hate a life that is so intertwined with it?

Yes, this is perfect.

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Divine filiation is a joyful truth, a consoling mystery. It fills all our spiritual life, it shows us how to speak to God, to know and to love our Father in heaven. And it makes our interior struggle overflow with hope and gives us the trusting simplicity of little children. More than that: precisely because we are children of God, we can contemplate in love and wonder everything as coming from the hands of our Father, God the Creator. And so we become contemplatives in the middle of the world, loving the world.”

~ St. Josemaria Escriva (Christ is Passing By). (emp added)

www.escrivaworks.org

We are to love the good of the world. Find God indeed in ordinary life, in ordinary human events and the good things God has given us. The good of life. And we are also to reject the evil in the world…that which is “of the world” (a phrase which has a very particular sense and should not be confused with the other uses of the term).

World in Scripture and the Church has various senses.

We are to be in the world but not “of the world”. That later sense is referring to that which is of “sin”. Not that which is of creation and good things in human life. If one keeps in mind that there are different senses of the use of the term “the world” one can avoid mistaking one sense for the other. God so loved the world… vs “the world” in the pejorative sense.

Again, is loving our life in this world an official teaching of the Church or stated explicitly anywhere in the Bible? You are free to maintain your belief that it is, but give me a break and allow me to believe otherwise without saying that I’m a misguided Catholic!

Perspective taking, being able to understand the perspective of others even if it goes against our own perception of Catholic reality, is so important!

 

[Bookcat]

Yes, as I said many times, it’s good to love the good that exists in the world. But to love our living in a world of exile, where we cannot become fully united with God no matter how much we want or try, I just cannot accept that logic.

Keep thinking and praying and reading (Catechism etc).

We are to love our life and our pilgrimage here (tis the gift of God and the journey He has given us)- but we do not love it as if were our lasting home our our goal! We are pilgrims.

No we look towards Heaven and indeed we also look forward to the* resurrection.*

 

[jcrichton]

I think that if any god exists he must be evil, I don’t think the evil in this world seperates us from God, it must go with his nature.

Hi!

…you are welcomed to hold on to your notions.

May the Holy Spirit enlighten your Path!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Robert_Sock]

Is there anybody here who thinks that God will condemn me for not loving a life where I was so separated from Him?

 

[jcrichton]

Again, is loving our life in this world an official teaching of the Church or stated explicitly anywhere in the Bible? You are free to maintain your belief that it is, but give me a break and allow me to believe otherwise without saying that I’m a misguided Catholic!

Perspective taking, being able to understand the perspective of others even if it goes against our own perception of Catholic reality, is so important!

Hi, Robert!

…not only is it stated, it is a Command:

37 Jesus said, ‘**You must love **

the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 The second resembles it: **You must love **your neighbour as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang the whole Law, and the Prophets also.’ (St. Matthew 22:37-40)
What you fail to understand is that God Commands that we Live separate from the world–that world that upholds evil and all unrighteousness as good or as permissible.

Once you are able to reconcile God’s Love with God’s Command to separate ourselves from the evil/wickedness in the world you will be able to reconcile your present issues.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Bookcat]

A

“Although man instinctively loves life because it is a good, this love will find further inspiration and strength, and new breadth and depth, in the divine dimensions of this good. Similarly, the love which every human being has for life cannot be reduced simply to a desire to have sufficient space for self-expression and for entering into relationships with others; rather, it devel- ops in a joyous awareness that life can become the “place” where God manifests himself, where we meet him and enter into communion with him. The life which Jesus gives in no way lessens the value of our existence in time; it takes it and directs it to its final destiny: “I am the resurrection and the life … whoever lives and believes in me shall never die” (Jn 11:25-26).”

~ Pope St. John Paul II

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae.html

 

[ANV]

Is there anybody here who thinks that God will condemn me for not loving a life where I was so separated from Him?

Not according to St Anthony the great, who did not love life and is considered a saint. But if you are looking at it and considering it from a personal level, you believe you are going to meet God one day, so be easy on yourself, it’s just a matter of little time.

 

[jcrichton]

Is there anybody here who thinks that God will condemn me for not loving a life where I was so separated from Him?

Hi, Robert!

…in the past there were those devote Catholics who would scourge (whip) themselves as a means to purify their thoughts, bodies and heart… we have had hermits and monastics who went to extremes to separate themselves from the world… some would even take vows of silence and poverty… yet none of them espoused themselves with hating life because of the evil therein; rather, their aim was to purify themselves and to bodily punish themselves… St. Francis of Assisi went to the point of calling Death his sister… he loved Christ so much that, as St. Paul, he wished to joined Him expediently… but he never taught that we must hate life because of the evil that exist in the world…

Here’s Christ’s Teaching on the coexistence of the Believers with evil:

24 He put another parable before them, ‘The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 While everybody was asleep his enemy came, sowed darnel all among the wheat, and made off. 26 When the new wheat sprouted and ripened, the darnel appeared as well. 27 The owner’s servants went to him and said, “Sir, was it not good seed that you sowed in your field? If so, where does the darnel come from?” 28 “Some enemy has done this” he answered. And the servants said, “Do you want us to go and weed it out?” 29 But he said, “No, because when you weed out the darnel you might pull up the wheat with it. 30 Let them both grow till the harvest; and at harvest time I shall say to the reapers: First collect the darnel and tie it in bundles to be burnt, then gather the wheat into my barn.”‘

(St. Matthew 13:24-30)
God will not condemn you for not loving life for He recognizes our limited understanding of His Command to Love and to Live Separate from the world.

…you may be kicking yourself for several eons since I will be reminding you of these exchanges… ‘hey, Robert, remember how far you went on that thing?..’

Brother, the Greatest Commandments Tells us to Love God, neighbor, and ourselves!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Although man instinctively loves life because it is a good, this love will find further inspiration and strength, and new breadth and depth, in the divine dimensions of this good. Similarly, the love which every human being has for life cannot be reduced simply to a desire to have sufficient space for self-expression and for entering into relationships with others; rather, it devel- ops in a joyous awareness that life can become the “place” where God manifests himself, where we meet him and enter into communion with him. The life which Jesus gives in no way lessens the value of our existence in time; it takes it and directs it to its final destiny: “I am the resurrection and the life … whoever lives and believes in me shall never die” (Jn 11:25-26).”

~ Pope St. John Paul II

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae.html

I sincerely doubt that Pope St. John Paul II is talking about the evil in this world, but the good that it most certainly contains. Everybody may have a love for life, as I certainly do, but there are many of us who feel that this world is corrupt and miserable. Imagine the people who are starving to death in a third-world country–something that happens numerous times each and every day–can we possibly say that they love their life in this world, or that we should take the moral perspective that they ought to love their life here in this world?

 

[ANV]

I sincerely doubt that Pope St. John Paul II is talking about the evil in this world, but the good that it most certainly contains. Everybody may have a love for life, as I certainly do, but there are many of us who feel that this world is corrupt and miserable. Imagine the people who are starving to death in a third-world country–something that happens numerous times each and every day–can we possibly say that they love their life in this world, or that we should take the moral perspective that they ought to love their life here in this world?

This is why I can’t say that I love life or that life is beautiful, there is lot of lovely and beautiful things in life for sure, which I love, enjoy and appreciate, but to say that life is beautiful as a general statement is not only irrealistic but also, on a non egoist level, it is offensive and inconsiderate to the ones who are suffering.

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Although man instinctively loves life because it is a good, this love will find further inspiration and strength, and new breadth and depth, in the divine dimensions of this good. Similarly, the love which every human being has for life cannot be reduced simply to a desire to have sufficient space for self-expression and for entering into relationships with others; rather, it devel- ops in a joyous awareness that life can become the “place” where God manifests himself, where we meet him and enter into communion with him. The life which Jesus gives in no way lessens the value of our existence in time; it takes it and directs it to its final destiny: “I am the resurrection and the life … whoever lives and believes in me shall never die” (Jn 11:25-26).”

~ Pope St. John Paul II

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae.html

Especially notice that Pope St. John Paul II is not in the least talking about life in this world.

 

[Bookcat]

I sincerely doubt that Pope St. John Paul II is talking about the evil in this world

Correct he is not.

 

[Bookcat]

Especially notice that Pope St. John Paul II is not in the least talking about life in this world.

He is.

“Although man instinctively loves life because it is a good (talking about life in this world), this love will find further inspiration and strength** (and that love for life here - not only good but will find inspiration and strength!!)** , and new breadth and depth, in the divine dimensions of this good. Similarly, the love which every human being has for life cannot be reduced simply to a desire to have sufficient space for self-expression and for entering into relationships with others; rather, it devel- ops in a joyous awareness that life can become the “place” where God manifests himself, where we meet him and enter into communion with him. The life which Jesus gives in no way lessens the value of our existence in time** (you see - the life we now have in Christ - that Jesus gives us - in no way lessens the valueof our natural life - our life “in time”(**; it takes it and directs it to its final destiny: “I am the resurrection and the life … whoever lives and believes in me shall never die” (Jn 11:25-26).”

~ Pope St. John Paul II

It is good to love ones life in this world - in the right way - and the life we have (true life!) in Jesus does not in any way lessen the value of that life - rather it takes it (that life in this world) and directs to towards its final destiny.

 

[Bookcat]

We are to love our life and our pilgrimage here (tis the gift of God and the journey He has given us)- but we do not love it in a disordered way …indeed we are not to love it as if were our lasting home our our goal!

No we look towards Heaven and indeed we also look forward to the* resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come (as we profess each Sunday in the Creed).*