Who can go to heaven?

[catharina]

I do not know of any Catholic Bishop’s.

You do not know of any Catholic bishops?
What on earth does that mean?

 

[bobzills]

I do not know of any Catholic Bishop’s.

So you do admit that there is not one Catholic bishop in the entire world who teaches or believes that all Muslims will go to hell.

 

[louey]

You do not know of any Catholic bishops?
What on earth does that mean?

It means exactly what I have just said, I know of no Catholic bishop’s.

 

[louey]

So you do admit that there is not one Catholic bishop in the entire world who teaches or believes that all Muslims will go to hell.

I admit I know of no Catholic bishop’s. That is all

 

[catharina]

It means exactly what I have just said, I know of no Catholic bishop’s.

So your religion is what?
It sounds like the “church of louey.”

 

[cynic]

What happens to every individual in the last 2 millenia who lived in a part of the world where they had no contact with or knowledge of Christianity?

 

[louey]

So your religion is what?
It sounds like the “church of louey.”

I am a Roman Catholic. I do not want to waste your time nor mine Catharina, so, I believe I have answered the question, and have nothing more to add. You and I do not share the same belief’s and that is the only point of discussion that I believe that you and I agree on. Thus said, either you are Catholic, or I am Catholic. One is, one is not, that is the point.

 

[louey]

What happens to every individual in the last 2 millenia who lived in a part of the world where they had no contact with or knowledge of Christianity?

What do you think? The bible clearly tells you the fate of those who die in their unbelief. Not knowing the One True God, and saving faith.

 

[catharina]

I am a Roman Catholic. I do not want to waste your time nor mine Catharina, so, I believe I have answered the question, and have nothing more to add. You and I do not share the same belief’s and that is the only point of discussion that I believe that you and I agree on. Thus said, either you are Catholic, or I am Catholic. One is, one is not, that is the point.

Yet I first learned of Baptism of Desire in 1951 in first grade at a Catholic school. It did not spring forth as an “error” as a result of Vatican II “thinking.” I’m quite certain of this - and of the fact that I’m Catholic, so … .

 

[bobzills]

I admit I know of no Catholic bishop’s. That is all

Do you say then, that there is not one living Catholic bishop in the entire world today? What about Cardinal Mahony or Pope Benedict or even Bishop Fellay? Have you ever heard about any one of them?

 

[louey]

Do you say then, that there is not one living Catholic bishop in the entire world today? What about Cardinal Mahony or Pope Benedict or even Bishop Fellay? Have you ever heard about any one of them?

I do not say that there is not one living Catholic bishop in the entire world today, I say, I do not know of any Catholic bishop’s. I do not believe Mahoney or Fellay, or Benedict are Catholic, by their own words, either written or oral, and by their own actions. They confess a belief in a Church that is not Catholic.

 

[louey]

Yet I first learned of Baptism of Desire in 1951 in first grade at a Catholic school. It did not spring forth as an “error” as a result of Vatican II “thinking.” I’m quite certain of this - and of the fact that I’m Catholic, so … ./QUOT

I do not see your point in your response.

 

[bobzills]

I do not say that there is not one living Catholic bishop in the entire world today, I say, I do not know of any Catholic bishop’s. I do not believe Mahoney or Fellay, or Benedict are Catholic, by their own words, either written or oral, and by their own actions. They confess a belief in a Church that is not Catholic.

Fair enough, that you do not know of any Catholic bishops. But this means then, that you hold that all the living Catholic bishops that we know about, under Pope Benedict are not truly Catholic since they do not hold to the strict interpretation that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. They all say that it is possible for a Jew or Hindu to attain salvation.
But let’s look at the consequences of the belief that as far as we know, the bishops claiming to be Catholic are not really Catholic. Then does that or does that not imply that the Catholic Church has defected? For 1900 years it had Catholic bishops, and then suddenly after Vatican II, they disappeared or held erroneous beliefs. Would that not mean that the Catholic Church has defected and is this not a contradiction to the doctrine of the indefectibility of the Catholic Church?
As you know, none of the Catholic bishops today teach the strict interpretation of the doctrine that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

 

[louey]

Fair enough, that you do not know of any Catholic bishops. But this means then, that you hold that all the living Catholic bishops that we know about, under Pope Benedict are not truly Catholic since they do not hold to the strict interpretation that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. They all say that it is possible for a Jew or Hindu to attain salvation.
But let’s look at the consequences of the belief that as far as we know, the bishops claiming to be Catholic are not really Catholic. Then does that or does that not imply that the Catholic Church has defected? For 1900 years it had Catholic bishops, and then suddenly after Vatican II, they disappeared or held erroneous beliefs. Would that not mean that the Catholic Church has defected and is this not a contradiction to the doctrine of the indefectibility of the Catholic Church?
As you know, none of the Catholic bishops today teach the strict interpretation of the doctrine that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

The Catholic faith can never defect, nor die; Catholic faith is Divine, not of man, of God, remaining forever. The faith remains in a remnant today. I hope there is a Catholic bishop in this world, however, I do not know. The Catholic faith is not dependent upon man, a bishop or a priest, that is only reason. Faith is a gift from God. His mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.” (Lk. 1:50) This is the true God, whom almost the whole world no longer knows. “Will not God revenge his elect who cry to him day and night? And will he have patience in their regard? I say to you that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?” (Lk

 

[catharina]

catharina;3422797:

Yet I first learned of Baptism of Desire in 1951 in first grade at a Catholic school. It did not spring forth as an “error” as a result of Vatican II “thinking.” I’m quite certain of this - and of the fact that I’m Catholic, so … .[/QUOT

I do not see your point in your response.

My point is that since you do not “know” of any Catholic bishops who are alive today, then it seems you must have established the church of louey. New “churches” spring up easily for those who have lost the Faith and separated themselves from the Church.

[/quote]

 

[Dauphin]

As you know, none of the Catholic bishops today teach the strict interpretation of the doctrine that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

I should hope that **all **of them teach the “strict interpretation”. Incorporation into the Church through baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. That is a dogma of the Church.

 

[bobzills]

I should hope that **all **of them teach the “strict interpretation”. Incorporation into the Church through baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. That is a dogma of the Church.

Perhaps you can give me the name of one Catholic bishop today who believes that all Hindus or all Jews will go to hell?

 

[Spera_in_Deo]

You know I gave up on this topic many years ago after I read and heard several priests say that even those pagan natives living in the wilds of Borneo can go to Heaven if they simply live by God’s Law (natural law) that is engraved upon every man’s heart!

That is also the day I stopped giving $$$$ to the missions!!!

 

[bobzills]

You know I gave up on this topic many years ago after I read and heard several priests say that even those pagan natives living in the wilds of Borneo can go to Heaven if they simply live by God’s Law (natural law) that is engraved upon every man’s heart!

So the strict interpretation being touted here is not followed in today’s Church.

 

[louey]

Spera in Deo;3423549:

You know I gave up on this topic many years ago after I read and heard several priests say that even those pagan natives living in the wilds of Borneo can go to Heaven if they simply live by God’s Law (natural law) that is engraved upon every man’s heart!

So the strict interpretation being touted here is not followed in today’s Church.

It is followed in the Catholic Church,as it is dogma. What you all do not seem to grasp, or understand or open your eyes to, is the fact the church you believe is Catholic is not. It is a false church, posing as the true bride of Christ; the Catholic Church. Truth does not change; Jesus yesterday, today and forever. WAKE UP!!!