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ralphinal
Guest
So the others argued with him about it?
No, they had talked about it before hand. Peter spoke up.
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No, they had talked about it before hand. Peter spoke up.
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underdog
Guest
Very interesting indeed. Muslims like Mormons and JWs, and ______ avoid the Apostle Paul like the Bubonic Plague. Just having fun with you all. - Underdog
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Podo2005
Guest
Jesus DID die on the cross, thats a historical fact whether you are christian or not
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Reuben_J
Guest
It’s OK, sister. My heart still bleeds but I will endure it.
I am able to withstand sincere opinions and honest discussion. Don’t worry about the differences. It’s those things that are not our belief which some posters ascribed to as our belief that irks me too often (which brings out the worst in me too).
J
Jean_1958
Guest
The official teaching of the RCC concerning the Church’s relationship with the Muslims is “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” CCC 841
Hope this helps.
Jean
Hope this helps.
Jean
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underdog
Guest
If that’s true, why do you want to share the gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims.
A
AshleyBelle
Guest
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planten
Guest
** A great post. telling the truth is no harm. It creates harmony. The above post is confirming the good news from the RCC for the muslims. And we welcome the peaceful honest preaching from the RCC.
Now I will respond with reciprocal teachings from the Quran for the Roman Catholics and people of all other faiths. Please read verse 02:62 of the Quran shown below:
[2:60] And remember the time when Moses prayed for water for his people and We said, ‘Strike the rock with thy rod;’ and there gushed forth from it twelve springs, so that every tribe knew their drinking place. And they were told, ‘Eat and drink of what Allah has provided, and commit not iniquity in the earth, creating disorder.’
[2:61] And remember when you said, ‘O Moses, surely we will not remain content with one kind of food; pray, then, to thy Lord for us that He may bring forth for us of what the earth grows - of its herbs and its cucumbers and its wheat and its lentils and its onions.’ He said, ‘Would you take in exchange that which is worse for that which is better? Go down to some town and there is for you what you ask.’ And they were smitten with abasement and destitution, and they incurred the wrath of Allah; that was because they rejected the Signs of Allah and sought to slay the Prophets unjustly; this was because they rebelled and transgressed.
[2:62] Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah (The God) and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve**.
[2:63] And remember the time when We took a covenant from you and raised high above you the Mount, saying, ‘Hold fast that which We have given you and bear in mind what is therein, that you may be saved.’
The verse 2:62 (colored Red above) is affirming peace and happiness (no harm) to peaceful people of all faiths, RCC and others (including Muslims). Their belief may be anything, Hindu or christian or Jewish or Budhist, as long as they believe in a God and do good deeds, there is no harm to them and no fear. That is Islam.
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underdog
Guest
Okay, are we all saying Islam and Roman Catholicism are the same when it comes to knowing God?
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Reuben_J
Guest
Then this is what Jesus said to Peter:
**Mathew 16:
15 ‘But you,’ Jesus said, ‘who do you say I am?’
16 Then Simon Peter spoke up and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’
17 Jesus replied, 'Simon son of Jonah, you are a blessed man! Because it was no human agency that revealed this to you but my Father in heaven. **
Meaning only the Father can give that knowledge to Peter. Meaning Peter was telling the truth that came from the Father. Meaning, if what Peter said was the truth, then indeed Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
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ralphinal
Guest
No.
Muslims intend to worship the God of Abraham, but their understanding of that God is flawed and defective.
You cannot be Muslim and Christian at the same time.
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planten
Guest
**Ralph, I feel and believe that I am a Muslim and a Christian and a Jew and a Budhist all at the same time. I have learnt good points about the leaders of all those faiths and i believe them all to be true messengers of God, i.e. because their religion spread very well and firmly in the world.
I have no harm/ hinderance in respecting and praising Abraham, Moses and Jesus and Budha etc. in word and deed.**
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Gatell
Guest
Hello:
The CCC only offers this:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330
As I see it, The Church does not exclude the Muslims from salvation as with other religions who do not believe in Christ as Savior. Likewise the CCC has interesting views on Protestant churches as well, but that is outside this discussion.
God Bless,
Victor
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ralphinal
Guest
Note the wording in the CCC
There are reasons that the Catholic Church does not go so far as to say that the Muslim understanding of God is defective. I, however, am not bound by the same issues. I have no fear of radical Muslim retrobution or violence against me. Nor must I concern myself with placating governments who have no issues with supporting these radical idiots.
If you do not acknowledge the Trinity, your understanding of God is incomplete. Yes, that does include Jews. However, the Jewish understanding of God is the same as our understanding of the Father.
If you see the relationship between man and God as that of Slave and Master, your view of God is deficient. God is our Father through Baptism and Jesus is his only Begotten SOn, Truly GOd and Truly Man. Jesus taught us that we are to approach God as a loving Father, not a cruel and viscious master.
The Church is clear that the understanding that Muslims have is not the complete God as taught to us by God Himself. That does not mean that they do not INTEND to worship that God.
You can learn good things from all religions. That does not make them complete or even incomplete alternatives to Christianity. If any Muslim is saved, it is by the Mercy of God, who knowing the hearts of all men, knows who is acting upon the grace given to them.
Again, if you can prove to me that Allah, as understood by the Qur’an, is 100% the same as God the Father, I will recant. But do understand that I am not holding my breath. If you can do that, Muslims will be shifted into the same catagory as Jews.
They are not saying that Muslims worship the same God, but that they claim to.
There are reasons that the Catholic Church does not go so far as to say that the Muslim understanding of God is defective. I, however, am not bound by the same issues. I have no fear of radical Muslim retrobution or violence against me. Nor must I concern myself with placating governments who have no issues with supporting these radical idiots.
If you do not acknowledge the Trinity, your understanding of God is incomplete. Yes, that does include Jews. However, the Jewish understanding of God is the same as our understanding of the Father.
If you see the relationship between man and God as that of Slave and Master, your view of God is deficient. God is our Father through Baptism and Jesus is his only Begotten SOn, Truly GOd and Truly Man. Jesus taught us that we are to approach God as a loving Father, not a cruel and viscious master.
The Church is clear that the understanding that Muslims have is not the complete God as taught to us by God Himself. That does not mean that they do not INTEND to worship that God.
You can learn good things from all religions. That does not make them complete or even incomplete alternatives to Christianity. If any Muslim is saved, it is by the Mercy of God, who knowing the hearts of all men, knows who is acting upon the grace given to them.
Again, if you can prove to me that Allah, as understood by the Qur’an, is 100% the same as God the Father, I will recant. But do understand that I am not holding my breath. If you can do that, Muslims will be shifted into the same catagory as Jews.
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underdog
Guest
Consider what the Apostle writes:
Example of Hagar and Sarah
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
A Muslim or a Jew will be saved when they are united to Christ through believing the gospel of God’s grace by trusting in Christ as their only hope for reconciliation and peace with God. We know that God is love, but He is also Holy and just. Mercy and grace shown to sinners is based on what Jesus Christ did in His life and death for sinners. If Muslims can be saved apart from receiving Christ, then Christ died in vain. If the unbelieving Jew can be saved apart from faith in Christ, then Jesus’ life and death a meaningless and a lie. Do we really want to call God a liar?
**1 John 5:10
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.**
All ethnic Jew and Muslim are welcome into the kingdom of God through the door provided by God, the lamb of God.
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underdog
Guest
Do you think Jesus made exclusive claims as being the only way to the Father? Jesus said “Before Abraham, I am”.
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ralphinal
Guest
underdog, so you will know, you loose ground when you quote Paul to a Muslim. They deny that he had anything ot do with the early church other than to corrupt it and to turn Muslims into pagan Christians.
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
a blessed messenger of God Almighty . It’s part of our faith to respect him , to respect Mother Mary (peace be upon them). We believe Jesus (p) did not die on the Cross ; God raised him up & he will come back to kill the anti Christ (p) before the last day.
**Of course you deny that our Lord, God, and and Savior Jesus Christ died on the Cross.
That way, you don’t have to deal with His Resurrection.
A dead man needs only to be buried.
Someone who rises from the dead is in a position to make non-negotiable demands.
It follows that the entity you call Jesus, and by extension His holy mother, are not the real ones.
Isa akbar!
Isa akbar!
ISA AKBAR!
I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.
**
**Of course you deny that our Lord, God, and and Savior Jesus Christ died on the Cross.
That way, you don’t have to deal with His Resurrection.
A dead man needs only to be buried.
Someone who rises from the dead is in a position to make non-negotiable demands.
It follows that the entity you call Jesus, and by extension His holy mother, are not the real ones.
Isa akbar!
Isa akbar!
ISA AKBAR!
I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.
**
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
You are right ralphinal when you say that Jesus had nothing to do with Paul or the church Paul established unauthorized, in my opinion.
Paul was an enemy of Jesus; and we don’t see that Jesus ever pardoned him for his wrongs done to him or his friends. Paul never asked any forgiveness from Jesus in this connection; even in the vision which Paul says he saw Jesus; Paul did not ask to forgive him or Paul did not repent or made a confession before him formally as the Catholics do as a ritual.
In my opinion, it is only a made up story of Paul, as Jesus was alive and was perhaps travelling towards India with Mary his mother and his trusted friends.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna
Thanks
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