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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Okay,What are they?
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PaulDupre
Guest
Hi BB13,
You and Zep are both still very young. It would be wise to trust those of us who are older and did screw up our lives by living as you propose. We just don’t want to see you make the painful mistakes we made - life is too short to waste.
Like Zep, I thought I was way too intelligent to mess up my life. I figured those who did just didn’t manage their risk appropriately - I could handle it. Well, there is no one who is too intelligent to be enslaved by sinful behavior.
Most have to learn by bitter experience. But the exceptionally wise person avoids pain to herself and others by heeding the counsel of those who have gone before.
Grace to you,
Paul
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rayne89
Guest
Led Zeppelin75:
How sad your posts have been, God loves you infinately whether you believe he exists or not. I pray that he will place someone in your life who will help you to unharden your heart. He wishes none to be lost.
You are in my prayers my friend
How sad your posts have been, God loves you infinately whether you believe he exists or not. I pray that he will place someone in your life who will help you to unharden your heart. He wishes none to be lost.
S
sarcophagus
Guest
See, Led, your previous post suggests that you have an amazingly huge grudge against catholicism. I didn’t refer to God or catholicism in any of my points because I’m not a catholic and not all religions believe in God. You can be a christian, catholic, whatever, and still choose to do anything you want. Being part of a religion is not limiting your freedom of choice. If you truly believe and truly have faith in whatever religion, your freedoms are not limited at all.
Freedom is individual depending on a person. If you feel chained down, then obviously you lack freedom. You, as an atheist, feel you are free…a truly devout catholic finds freedom in the church, just as a truly devout wiccan will find freedom in the God and Goddess. Freedom is where you seek it. It is not a matter of set rules. Ask any catholic on this board, the majority will say they feel they have freedom. Ask BlessedBe, she’ll tell you she finds freedom in her beliefs.
I’m sorry, even as an atheist (for at least 18 years) I can’t see your point.
Freedom is individual depending on a person. If you feel chained down, then obviously you lack freedom. You, as an atheist, feel you are free…a truly devout catholic finds freedom in the church, just as a truly devout wiccan will find freedom in the God and Goddess. Freedom is where you seek it. It is not a matter of set rules. Ask any catholic on this board, the majority will say they feel they have freedom. Ask BlessedBe, she’ll tell you she finds freedom in her beliefs.
I’m sorry, even as an atheist (for at least 18 years) I can’t see your point.
C
cheddarsox
Guest
I am a pantheist. I hang with UU’s and pagans because that is how I meet up with other pantheists. I grew up Catholic, and chose to leave the church because I did not believe much of the doctrine and did not intend to raise my children in the faith.
I belonged to other Christian churches along the way. Learned much, experienced much in life. Pantheism is the faith that addresses most of my experiences, both internal and external.
I have always been a very “religious” person. I like tending to my spirituality, I enjoy worship and ritual. I like to feel things deeply.
I was never converted away from a belief, or converted into a new one by a person. I sort of grew into new beliefs as I went along in life. I did not make a decision for pantheism, I just found myself with this set of beliefs and then discovered that there were others who shared the same and that is what they call themselves.
Integrity of belief and life is important to me. I have gone through long horrible periods of time when I was trying to do all sorts of internal contortions to wed my beliefs to my life in some blasphemous and unholy union. I can’t live that way. I believe what I believe, and not without reason, so now I live it and am finding some measure of satisfaction and authenticity.
I am grateful for all my religious experiences. I learned a great deal being a Catholic. My love for ritual and depth of feeling stems from that period of my life. I am greatly enriched by it. My years as a protestant deepened my knowledge of the Bible and took me on a deep internal journey to examine my relationship to Christ as a living being and savior.
Pantheism allows me to experience fearlessly this awsome universe, and my part in it, the connections between spirit and material, spirit and spirit, material and material.
My belief is that the divine is that which makes it all work and interact. The attraction and controller of all. (sort of the God is love idea!) I do not worship “stuff”, I worship that which makes the stuff possible, that which makes it all possible.
When I was growing up Catholic, I was taught that pantheist believed chairs and walls were god, and that consequently they worshipped chairs. That is not true. I believe it is all god, god is everywhere and in all things, it is all sacred.But I worship that which makes it possible, not the thing itself. The glory of the thing, the miracle of the thing.
I am also a scientist, and I see the divine in everything I study. My work brings me to a deeper level of awe and humility. Everything is so complex, and fascinating, and connected in ways that we could not even imagine.
I am middle aged, and I expect my spirituality will continue to evolve. I look forward to that.
cheddar
I belonged to other Christian churches along the way. Learned much, experienced much in life. Pantheism is the faith that addresses most of my experiences, both internal and external.
I have always been a very “religious” person. I like tending to my spirituality, I enjoy worship and ritual. I like to feel things deeply.
I was never converted away from a belief, or converted into a new one by a person. I sort of grew into new beliefs as I went along in life. I did not make a decision for pantheism, I just found myself with this set of beliefs and then discovered that there were others who shared the same and that is what they call themselves.
Integrity of belief and life is important to me. I have gone through long horrible periods of time when I was trying to do all sorts of internal contortions to wed my beliefs to my life in some blasphemous and unholy union. I can’t live that way. I believe what I believe, and not without reason, so now I live it and am finding some measure of satisfaction and authenticity.
I am grateful for all my religious experiences. I learned a great deal being a Catholic. My love for ritual and depth of feeling stems from that period of my life. I am greatly enriched by it. My years as a protestant deepened my knowledge of the Bible and took me on a deep internal journey to examine my relationship to Christ as a living being and savior.
Pantheism allows me to experience fearlessly this awsome universe, and my part in it, the connections between spirit and material, spirit and spirit, material and material.
My belief is that the divine is that which makes it all work and interact. The attraction and controller of all. (sort of the God is love idea!) I do not worship “stuff”, I worship that which makes the stuff possible, that which makes it all possible.
When I was growing up Catholic, I was taught that pantheist believed chairs and walls were god, and that consequently they worshipped chairs. That is not true. I believe it is all god, god is everywhere and in all things, it is all sacred.But I worship that which makes it possible, not the thing itself. The glory of the thing, the miracle of the thing.
I am also a scientist, and I see the divine in everything I study. My work brings me to a deeper level of awe and humility. Everything is so complex, and fascinating, and connected in ways that we could not even imagine.
I am middle aged, and I expect my spirituality will continue to evolve. I look forward to that.
cheddar
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BlessedBe13
Guest
I do agree that some of those things can screw up people’s lives in the long run for some people, not all. Yes premarital sex can have harmful emotional effects, as well as other risks. Yes substance abuse can ruin people’s lives. Etc, etc. but not all of these things will ruin everyone’s lives. I do understand where you are coming from however, and it is true you have had more experiences than I have, I just believe that a lot of those things on the list depend on the individual as to whether it will ruin their life or not.
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BlessedBe13
Guest
wicca.com/celtic/wicca/rede.htmOkay,What are they?
“An harm none, do what ye will” is considered the most well known and by some, most important part of the rede. Although some may interpret it to mean “do whatever you want as long as you don’t hurt anyone”, for those that think about it, it is much more. Harming none, includes those around you, yourself, etc. Every action a person takes affects those around them and so one must think about how their actions will affect themselves and those around them. If they still choose to take a certain action, they must be prepared to accept the consequences and responsibility for their actions.
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BlessedBe13
Guest
I think your entire post was very well written and makes a very good point. I was thinking about elaborating, but I don’t feel there is any need to. You described things wonderfully.
I do agree that Zep seems to have a grudge against the Catholic Church itself, because in his posts describing the “loss of freedoms” in religion, they seemed to be more directed towards the beliefs of the Catholic Church rather than religion in general.
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
BlessedBe13 said:
Blessedbe, So as long as you dont harm anyone the gates of Summerland are open to you. Sound to good to be true.
What happens if you do harm someone[including yourself]. Where are you going?
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BlessedBe13
Guest
I’ve already said that everyone is going to the same place in the afterlife anyway. Also, I’ve already explained the part about “harming none”.
So does all the believers in Jesus are “special” and get to go to Heaven, while all those non-Christians get to go to hell. There’s another theory on the creation of “Hell”. It makes those that believe that they are going to heaven feel like part of an “elite” group. God forbid everyone is equal and ends up in the same place.
I already explained this. Please pay attention to my posts. One must accept the consequences of and take responsibility for their actions, and hopefully make up for any wrong they did.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
So we are off to see the wizard[god] in summerland?
Everyone welcome,cant wait. I wonder if Hitler is there?. WOW!! 
You call Christanity easy.Wicca is kindergarden compared to Christianity. What are the consequences you talk about?
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Christian4life
Guest
I believe in the Bible, and until I find an order that truly follows Biblical teaching, I remain non-denom.
Sometimes, if people ask me I say Baptist. I normally attend Baptist churches. Catholics and Baptists and I usually get along, I have many beliefs from both, as well as beliefs that are not in either.
Like, I truly believe the Bible condemns abortion as murder.
Birth control is evil.
I believe in baptism for infants as well as for the deceased.
I believe in full- submersion baptism.
I believe women should cover their heads in church.
I believe the wine and bread are the body of Christ, and should be treated as sacred.
I like other Christians in general, and try not to judge other people’s religion, with the exception of liberal Christians like most methodists and unitarians, because I don’t think that is really Christianity.
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Tmaque
Guest
Led Zeppelin75:
I’m an intelligent, reasonable and even skeptical person. I KNOW what I experienced and know it was not natural. You just can’t accept the fact that many people have EXPERIENCED impossible, miraculous things. We haven’t hallucinated, we didn’t see a natural phenomenon and mistake it for a supernatural one! What don’t you get about that?
You just can’t accept the FACT that things happen every day to many people that prove God exists. You truly are like a deaf man trying to tell us with ears that we’re imagining things. Because YOU haven’t experienced it, it must not be true. Why not accept that fact that it’s at least possible? Why are you so closed-minded? What are you so afraid of? I hope you find some peace. You seem very angry and unhappy inside. I’ll pray for you.
I don’t need equations, or to read anything to believe my own eyes and ears! Should I disbelieve what I see and hear just because cynics like you say it’s impossible? Should I tell the all the people that experienced the same thing that they all hallucinated for two straight weeks??
I’m an intelligent, reasonable and even skeptical person. I KNOW what I experienced and know it was not natural. You just can’t accept the fact that many people have EXPERIENCED impossible, miraculous things. We haven’t hallucinated, we didn’t see a natural phenomenon and mistake it for a supernatural one! What don’t you get about that?
You just can’t accept the FACT that things happen every day to many people that prove God exists. You truly are like a deaf man trying to tell us with ears that we’re imagining things. Because YOU haven’t experienced it, it must not be true. Why not accept that fact that it’s at least possible? Why are you so closed-minded? What are you so afraid of? I hope you find some peace. You seem very angry and unhappy inside. I’ll pray for you.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Led Zeppelin75:
Hi Led, I believe that God has given every one of his creations a God instilled conscience to know that there is a God. Its your denial and smoked filled conscience that is blocking what God has revealed to you. One day after all the smoke is gone you will come to that realization. May God reveal Himself to you as you search for Gods TRUTH
C
Cubby
Guest
It’s interesting thta you believe the bread and wine really is the body of Christ but choose to attend a non-denominational church. Does your non-denominational/Baptist church believe and teach this? This is the first time I’ve ran in to someone who believes, essentially, in the Catholic Mass, but doesn’t attend a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox church! How does this belief rank on your scale of understanding Christianity?
Also, what particular Bible teaching doesn’t the Catholic or EO church follow?
I’m going to apologize in advance, for I won’t be able to read your response until Monday.
Have a great weekend serving God everyone!
(except Led, of course) but have a great weekend L-Z
Cubby
<><
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weasley_girl
Guest
Hi Cubby!
I am not sure if you could count this as a religion, but I have been agnostic most of my life; from age 14 or 15 until just recently, ar age 25. I would daresay I was atheist or agnostic before then even, but was still attending Protestant (Christian Reformed) church and schools, so my life was surrounded with Christianity even though I wasn’t sure of my position. I became an atheist for several reasons. One, the churches and private schools I attended unable to answer the questions that I had. My parents, paradoxically enough, encouraged me to be curious and sceptical when in pursuits like reading and science, but expected complete unquestioning faith at church. When I pointed out something that did not make sense to me, I was punished or told just to believe. By the time I was thirteen I was very angry at God, and started pursuing anti-Christian readings and friends, which thouroughly convinced me by age 15 or so that Christianity was all a lie.
I also had a brief stint as a pagan, a Kemetic specifically, which means ancient Egyptian religion. I am not sure if I really believed in the teachings or just liked the mystery, ritual and beauty of the faith. I have always felt special kinship to animals and nature and loved the focus of the faith on these elements instead of humanity and God. The idea of multiple gods, some who were dark and some who were good, was amazing and intriguing. I still think it is interesting to explore as mythology, but not as fact. I did this from ages 19-21 before going back to agnosticism - basically weak atheism where I just ignored everything to do with religion.
Recently, I started exploring the Bible and the teachings of Christ again. I wanted to get a better understanding and make sure I was not just reacting to negative experiences in the church. I read a lot, studied the Bible, talked to friends and clergy, etc, and gave my life to Jesus several months ago. Just last week I felt prompted to move forward, and contacted a Priest and discussed the issue with him, so I will be attending mass from now on and learning more, and hopefully someday will not be able to label myself non-Catholic.
God Bless
I am not sure if you could count this as a religion, but I have been agnostic most of my life; from age 14 or 15 until just recently, ar age 25. I would daresay I was atheist or agnostic before then even, but was still attending Protestant (Christian Reformed) church and schools, so my life was surrounded with Christianity even though I wasn’t sure of my position. I became an atheist for several reasons. One, the churches and private schools I attended unable to answer the questions that I had. My parents, paradoxically enough, encouraged me to be curious and sceptical when in pursuits like reading and science, but expected complete unquestioning faith at church. When I pointed out something that did not make sense to me, I was punished or told just to believe. By the time I was thirteen I was very angry at God, and started pursuing anti-Christian readings and friends, which thouroughly convinced me by age 15 or so that Christianity was all a lie.
I also had a brief stint as a pagan, a Kemetic specifically, which means ancient Egyptian religion. I am not sure if I really believed in the teachings or just liked the mystery, ritual and beauty of the faith. I have always felt special kinship to animals and nature and loved the focus of the faith on these elements instead of humanity and God. The idea of multiple gods, some who were dark and some who were good, was amazing and intriguing. I still think it is interesting to explore as mythology, but not as fact. I did this from ages 19-21 before going back to agnosticism - basically weak atheism where I just ignored everything to do with religion.
Recently, I started exploring the Bible and the teachings of Christ again. I wanted to get a better understanding and make sure I was not just reacting to negative experiences in the church. I read a lot, studied the Bible, talked to friends and clergy, etc, and gave my life to Jesus several months ago. Just last week I felt prompted to move forward, and contacted a Priest and discussed the issue with him, so I will be attending mass from now on and learning more, and hopefully someday will not be able to label myself non-Catholic.
God Bless
K
Katholikos
Guest
This is a perfect description of do-it-yourself religion. No offense intended to you, personally, Christian4life, but Christianity isn’t what we each individually wish it to be, or mistakenly believe it to be; it’s the sum total of God’s revelation handed down once for all to His Church (Jude 3). Christianity is a revealed religion. It wasn’t revealed in a book, but to the living, teaching Church founded by Christ; the Church in turn produced the book, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, when she was nearly 400 years old .
Your statement “until I find an order that truly follows Biblical teaching” means ‘until you find an organization that interprets the Bible the way you do.’ There’s only one correct interpretation – and that’s the one taught by the Church that wrote the NT – the Catholic Church.
Have you studied the origin of the Bible? Why, where, when, and by whom it was written? Under what circumstances? What it is? What is its purpose? How it became “the Bible”?
The OT is the literary expression of the religious life of ancient Israel. The NT is the literary expression of the religious life of the New Israel (Gal 6:16) – the newborn Catholic Church – during the first 100 years or so of her existence. It is not an instruction book in Christianity.
Peace to you and to all who post at Catholic Answers.
JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
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RomanRyan1088
Guest
**Led Zeppelin75 no God huh, well then can you explain this to me… **
ewtn.com/saints/JuanDiego/image.htm
or this…
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
because Science cannot even explain these Miracles.
ewtn.com/saints/JuanDiego/image.htm
or this…
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
because Science cannot even explain these Miracles.
W
Wil_Peregrin
Guest
Cubby, I wasn’t -born- Catholic. I didn’t even become an orthodox, Trinitarian, beliving Christian until I was 18.
L
Led_Zeppelin7.5
Guest
RomanRyan1088 said:
I’ve seen both before you gave them to me. You say that some church possesses some human blood and some heart tissue which some scientific test has confirmed to indeed be human blood and tissue. So what? What is the miracle? Yes, I know the story is that this flesh and blood formed from wafers and wine in the 8th century, but why should anyone believe this story? I would be impressed if, under controlled conditions, I could carefully and directly observe wafers and wine turning into flesh and blood, but I simply cannot believe in such a thing, and will never believe in such a thing, based on second-hand stories. As to the scientific tests on the flesh and blood supposedly showing its miraculous properties, who did these tests, where is this information available, and what is its significance? Many pagans have stories just like these, does it automatically make them credible? Of coarse not.
Oh and I have a friend who is a new aged neo pagan and she was telling me about this New Age “Guru” who did a transubstantiation on video and has caused alot of attention and press in the netherlands. I’ll try to get some more info with a video of it or something. No logical person believes it, no catholic or christian believes itr, but it has a bit more credibility than Luciano. The funny thing is… this guru refuses to do the same thing in controlled environments under observation because it gives “negative vibes”. So as you can
see such “miracles” with supposed “evidence” are not that credible.
- Status