Who, What, When, Where, Why Your Religion?

[Katholikos]

Led Z, I recognize myself in you. Explaining Christianity to me was like explaining blue to a blind man. I didn’t believe any of it for the simple reason that I refused to believe it. :banghead: I could mount good and “logical” arguments for my disbelief. I wouldn’t examine the logic. I knew nothing of Fides et Ratio (Faith and Reason, title of one of John Paul II’s recent writings). I believed those two words to be antithetical. Then one day, after many years of smug, complacent atheism, something happened. My guard must have been down. Grace entered in. The rest, as they say, is history.

Now I am in the company of great minds like Mortimer Adler, the most influential philosopher of the 20th century, who finally became a Catholic at the age of 97, and many other brilliant thinkers. I’m honored to share the Catholic faith with many brilliant men and women – many of them scientists. It delights me to think of the priest-astronomers of the Vatican Observatory atop Mt. Graham in my state of Arizona contemplating the face of God each night as He reveals Himself in the heavens He created.

Here’s another website – this one is about the miraculous eyes of the image of the Virgin of Guadalupe, based on an interview with a scientist who has studied the image for more than 20 years. More grist for your “I don’t believe it” mill. Jay

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=23474

 

[RomanRyan1088]

Led Zeppelin7.5:

I’ve seen both before you gave them to me. You say that some church possesses some human blood and some heart tissue which some scientific test has confirmed to indeed be human blood and tissue. So what? What is the miracle? Yes, I know the story is that this flesh and blood formed from wafers and wine in the 8th century, but why should anyone believe this story? I would be impressed if, under controlled conditions, I could carefully and directly observe wafers and wine turning into flesh and blood, but I simply cannot believe in such a thing, and will never believe in such a thing, based on second-hand stories. As to the scientific tests on the flesh and blood supposedly showing its miraculous properties, who did these tests, where is this information available, and what is its significance? Many pagans have stories just like these, does it automatically make them credible? Of coarse not.

I too was a sceptic, when I was going through my “Atheist Week”, I didn’t believe in God for a week, most horrible time in my life. But that off the subject. I was sceptic of this also until I found out that half the host is still bread, and half of it is flesh! I dont think you can fuse these two together. That is what made me believe. Also, do these Pegans have proof of these “Miralcles”. As far as the scientist who did these test, im sure that some were Catholic, some were not. Did you know that the more Albert Einstein studied the universe, the more he believed that there had to be a supreme being.

Oh and I have a friend who is a new aged neo pagan and she was telling me about this New Age “Guru” who did a transubstantiation on video and has caused alot of attention and press in the netherlands. I’ll try to get some more info with a video of it or something. No logical person believes it, no catholic or christian believes itr, but it has a bit more credibility than Luciano. The funny thing is… this guru refuses to do the same thing in controlled environments under observation because it gives “negative vibes”. So as you can
see such “miracles” with supposed “evidence” are not that credible.
So did this Guru change bread into flesh, like at Luciano? Me personally, if this “Guru” did change this into flesh, then i believe it is the work of the devil. I believe the devil can do such things to turn people away from God, and make them believe in this new age junk.

 

[Led_Zeppelin7-5]

“”“I too was a sceptic, when I was going through my “Atheist Week”, I didn’t believe in God for a week, most horrible time in my life. But that off the subject. I was sceptic of this also until I found out that half the host is still bread, and half of it is flesh! I dont think you can fuse these two together. That is what made me believe. Also, do these Pegans have proof of these “Miralcles”. As far as the scientist who did these test, im sure that some were Catholic, some were not. Did you know that the more Albert Einstein studied the universe, the more he believed that there had to be a supreme being. “””"

I simply will not believe it. Over many years christians have been known to lie in order to convince people. Again, who did these tests? I’ll bet it was a bunch of catholics. Einstein was not a theist and what you said is completely false.

 

[RomanRyan1088]

Led Zeppelin7-5:

I simply will not believe it. Over many years christians have been known to lie in order to convince people. Again, who did these tests? I’ll bet it was a bunch of catholics. Einstein was not a theist and what you said is completely false.

Ok then… Hope to hear from you again.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Cubby:

Once again, this is new to me, however, in today’s broadest spectrum of Christ’s catholic church, I have yet to come across a prophet. How about you?

Cubby
<><

I personally havent,but that doesnt mean that there arent prophets out there. Its just that we havent come in contact with them.We do not do away with them ,its up to Christ.Its only our own understanding and thinking that has done away with them. God Bless.

 

[AnAtheist]

couldn’t vote

“none” is not among the answers

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

So we are off to see the wizard[god] in summerland? Everyone welcome,cant wait. I wonder if Hitler is there?. WOW!! You call Christanity easy.Wicca is kindergarden compared to Christianity. What are the consequences you talk about?

Until you can start acting and posting with some sense of maturity, I am done with your posts.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Led Zeppelin7.5:

Many pagans have stories just like these, does it automatically make them credible? Of coarse not.

And why not? Miracles are not excluded to any particular religion. A miracle is a miracle is a miracle. It does not matter whether one is Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, etc., they are still equally valid. Of course, one cannot always believe everything one hears or reads about, but that should be judged on each individual experience, not on the religion of the person.

 

[BlessedBe13]

RomanRyan1088:

Me personally, if this “Guru” did change this into flesh, then i believe it is the work of the devil. I believe the devil can do such things to turn people away from God, and make them believe in this new age junk.QUOTE]

As I said before, why should any Catholic miracle be any more valid than a pagan miracle? Answer is: it’s not. I neither believe in nor worship any devil figure. I worship a being of all good and love - not the “devil” that you speak of.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

Until you can start acting and posting with some sense of maturity, I am done with your posts.

I agree, You are a test of my patience,and as you can see I FAILED TERRIBLY. Sorry. Ill try to do better.

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

Sorry.

Apology accepted.

Ill try to do better.

We’ll see.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

SPOKENWORD:

Blessedbe, So as long as you dont harm anyone the gates of Summerland are open to you. Sound to good to be true. What happens if you do harm someone[including yourself]. Where are you going?

Hi blessedbe. Its a new day!! What are the consequences you are talking about? If you die without resolved hurts you have caused,are you still allowed in.[summerland]?

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

What are the consequences you are talking about?

Consequences in this life. If you lie to someone, it can be very harmful and will come back to you in the end. If A Wiccan who also practices Witchcraft performs a spell with the intention of harming someone, the harmful effects of that spell will be returned to them threefold.

If you die without resolved hurts you have caused,are you still allowed in.[summerland]?

To be honest, I am still thinking on my beliefs in that. Yes, I still believe that everyone will go to the Summerland in the end (no eternal separation from the Divine). Some believe that a person is reincarnated until they learn certain lessons in life (in this case it would be how to treat others). I believe this is a possibility, but I am still learning about reincarnation. I also believe that there may be something along the lines of purgatory, a spiritual “time-out” (or as Heathen_Dawn once put it when he was still here - a sort of spiritual laundry room), where one is cleansed of any unresolved wrongs committed during life. However, I definately believe that there is no place of eternal torment or eternal separation such as “hell”. I believe that everyone will be united with Divinity in the afterlife.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

Consequences in this life. If you lie to someone, it can be very harmful and will come back to you in the end. If A Wiccan who also practices Witchcraft performs a spell with the intention of harming someone, the harmful effects of that spell will be returned to them threefold. To be honest, I am still thinking on my beliefs in that. Yes, I still believe that everyone will go to the Summerland in the end (no eternal separation from the Divine). Some believe that a person is reincarnated until they learn certain lessons in life (in this case it would be how to treat others). I believe this is a possibility, but I am still learning about reincarnation. I also believe that there may be something along the lines of purgatory, a spiritual “time-out” (or as Heathen_Dawn once put it when he was still here - a sort of spiritual laundry room), where one is cleansed of any unresolved wrongs committed during life. However, I definately believe that there is no place of eternal torment or eternal separation such as “hell”. I believe that everyone will be united with Divinity in the afterlife.

Blessedbe. So what you are telling me ,is that you are not sure? Are you willing to risk your eternal soul with uncertainity? Suppose you were to die this night ? Do you think Satan was reincarnated as a snake in the Garden of Eden? Maybe because He was a Liar.

 

[Tmaque]

BlessedBe13:

However, I definately believe that there is no place of eternal torment or eternal separation such as “hell”. I believe that everyone will be united with Divinity in the afterlife.

What if someone WANTS to be separated from God? Should God deny them free will?

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

So what you are telling me ,is that you are not sure?

No, I am sure of my beliefs. NO ONE is really sure about the afterlife until they get there. I am telling you what my beliefs are. I am still learning. Everyone is always learning until the day they die. I just sometimes have trouble expressing the thoughts and ideas in my head as words. But as I said in my previous post, I am certain that everyone will be united with our Creator in the afterlife.

Are you willing to risk your eternal soul with uncertainity?

But I am certain.

Suppose you were to die this night ?

To put it bluntly, that would suck. There is so much more I still want to do in this life. But if that is meant to happen, I must accept it. At least I know that in the afterlife I will be in paradise with the Lord and Lady.

Do you think Satan was reincarnated as a snake in the Garden of Eden?

No, because I don’t believe in Satan. I also believe that people are reincarnated into people, not into other animals.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Tmaque:

What if someone WANTS to be separated from God? Should God deny them free will?

A soul may choose to be reincarnated and live another life on earth. However, I also believe that even here on Earth no-one is *really *separate from the Divine, as it is present throughout all of creation.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

No, I am sure of my beliefs. NO ONE is really sure about the afterlife until they get there. I am telling you what my beliefs are. I am still learning. Everyone is always learning until the day they die. I just sometimes have trouble expressing the thoughts and ideas in my head as words. But as I said in my previous post, I am certain that everyone will be united with our Creator in the afterlife. But I am certain. To put it bluntly, that would suck. There is so much more I still want to do in this life. But if that is meant to happen, I must accept it. At least I know that in the afterlife I will be in paradise with the Lord and Lady. No, because I don’t believe in Satan. I also believe that people are reincarnated into people, not into other animals.

I believe you do speak pieces of truth. I also like you believe that we ALL will one day will be reunited with our God. That will be on what we Christians call JUDGEMENT DAY.This is the day our LOVING GOD will judge us. Those who recieved His FREE gift of SALVATION here on earth are given a place in the Kingdom of Heaven.Those that rejected the Gift of Salvation condemm themselves and are seperated from God forever. Im sure your Gods [lord&lady] are spirit. In what form have you seen them? Prove they exist? Jesus Christ was the living proof of being God in the Flesh.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

BlessedBe13:

A soul may choose to be reincarnated and live another life on earth. However, I also believe that even here on Earth no-one is *really *separate from the Divine, as it is present throughout all of creation.

How many reincarnated lives are you given? I know cats are given 9 lives. Can you take your own life in case you are not happy with your reincarnated life knowing you will recieve another one?

 

[BlessedBe13]

SPOKENWORD:

Those that rejected the Gift of Salvation condemm themselves and are seperated from God forever.

And this is where we differ in our beliefs. I’m assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) that by Salvation you are referring to belief in Jesus as God. However, as I believe that all religions worship the same Creator (they only view him/her/it in different ways), I do not believe that one needs belief in Jesus as God to go to “heaven” - which is why I believe that all people will be united with Divinity for eternity.

Im sure your Gods [lord&lady] are spirit.

I’m not positive exactly what you are getting at. Are you stating that my view of Deity is/are actually spirits rather than the Creator his/her/itself? If this is the case, I know I will probably never change your mind. However, as I said, I believe everyone worships the same Creator, I just have a different view/interpretation than you do.

In what form have you seen them? Prove they exist?

They have revealed themselves to me through prayer and meditation. They have been with me through bad times and good. They flow throughout creation and can be seen in the beauty of nature (just to clarify: although I believe Divinity flows throughout nature, I worship the Creator, not the creation.)

Jesus Christ was the living proof of being God in the Flesh.

Assuming one believes that Jesus is/was God, which not everyone does. In a way we are all living proof of God as we were created in his/her image.