Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

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And don’t forget he is the first president to tell China to pound sand.

That is huge imo.
 
FirstFiveEighth said:
Is this where we pretend that legislation and policy has no effect or connection to abortion outcomes and therefore politicians are never culpable for their words and actions?
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Legislative policy does have some effect in borderline cases. But there were women having abortions before it was legal, and there were women travelling to where it was legal. So the really more effective strategy - and I think the only one that will win in the long run - is to convince all women that we as a society are there for them and their children. We do this in a variety of ways. One is by having state-funded public schools that the mothers do not have to fund personally. Another is by paying for their prenatal and delivery services. These mothers, and those close to them who advise them, are the real decision makers. As pnewton said, penal solutions to abortion may not be the best way to combat it. But that’s primarily all we hear about from anti-abortion candidates.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
Information that you get from LifeHouse regarding women forced by men to get abortions only shows that there are some women who are forced to have abortions. It does not address the many many women who decide all on their own to have an abortion because LifeHouse would never encounter them and therefore would have no way of knowing how many of them there are. Why would you not prosecute them? And if you are blaming the men in the lives, why not prosecute those men? It seems the only people you are willing to blame are the Democrats, when they don’t force anyone to have an abortion. It looks more and more like the emphasis on abortion is largely to accomplish other Republican goals, like lower taxes, less regulation, etc.
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I also have a relationship with an order of sisters whose mission is to go into neighborhoods and talk to women about saving their unborn babies. They also provide safety, room and board, job training, like LifeHouse does. They also provide counseling to women who have had abortions.

Certainly, though, many women who have abortions are under no real pressure to do it. Like Obama said of his highly privileged daughters if one became pregnant. He would advocate abortion for her so she wasn’t “burdened with a baby”. Pretty callous, and he probably raised his daughters to think the same way.

This country has never prosecuted women for having abortions. I would certainly prosecute those who perform the abortions. The Dem party promotes abortion every way there is to do it, and is steeped in blood.

If you are oblivious to that, then you are. But you’re just slandering me to claim that my opposition to abortion is false. It’s not as difficult as you might think to accept the teachings of the Church.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
So the really more effective strategy - and I think the only one that will win in the long run - is to convince all women that we as a society are there for them and their children. We do this in a variety of ways. One is by having state-funded public schools that the mothers do not have to fund personally. Another is by paying for their prenatal and delivery services. These mothers, and those close to them who advise them, are the real decision makers. As pnewton said, penal solutions to abortion may not be the best way to combat it. But that’s primarily all we hear about from anti-abortion candidates.
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It has long seemed to me that the people who do the most for women at risk are also the people who oppose it politically. I realize Dems are long on talk about all the things women at risk ought to be provided by society. They never actually do anything. But they do promote abortion both here and abroad.
 
farronwolf said:
Your statement was that she gave glowing praise of the organization. You mentioned nothing else.
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Seriously? She’s given more than mere glowing praise. That woman was a senator of N.Y…remember? She made darn sure that abortion was safe and sound in her state! And if she were President, she’d appoint activist judges to the Supreme Court to protect this abominable attack on the unborn.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Like Obama said of his highly privileged daughters if one became pregnant. He would advocate abortion for her so she wasn’t “burdened with a baby”.
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I don’t think Obama said that… can you link to it?

I think instead he was asked about abortion and instead talked about sexual education … this is where he referenced his daughters (as miracles) and insisted that he wanted to educate them on the consequences of having sex… he mentioned the burden of having a child and the burden of contracting STD’s as consequences.

I personally haven’t encounter the blood thirsty dems that apparently some have… and find that putting as negative of a spin possible on a comment is counterproductive.
 
Mark121359 said:
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farronwolf:
Your statement was that she gave glowing praise of the organization. You mentioned nothing else.
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Seriously? She’s given more than mere glowing praise. That woman was a senator of N.Y…remember? She made darn sure that abortion was safe and sound in her state! And if she were President, she’d appoint activist judges to the Supreme Court to protect this abominable attack on the unborn.
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I was responding to what you posted.

You do realize that US Senators don’t make laws for the states which they represent. The state legislators do that.

I hope you also realize that Hillary isn’t running for President this time. I am always curious when folks want to roll back to Hillary or Obama in reference to what is happening now, as this thread is about the upcoming election. Why are you even bringing her up?
 
He absolutely said that,his exact words were” I don’t Think a woman should be punished with a baby,”that was after his comment re his daughters’ if they should ever have an unplanned pregnancy.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I also have a relationship with an order of sisters whose mission is to go into neighborhoods and talk to women about saving their unborn babies. They also provide safety, room and board, job training, like LifeHouse does. They also provide counseling to women who have had abortions.
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This is all very good and praise-worthy. But the statement you were trying to support was this:
Ridgerunner said:
Almost no woman who has an abortion is without some person who encourages the act or even threatens her if she doesn’t do it.
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None of the information from LifeHouse or the sisters you mentioned supports this statement objectively. To do that you would have to gather statistics on all women who have had abortions - not just the ones who are encountered by these fine groups. The women who come to these groups are self-selected as women who already know they are hurting from abortion or feel pressure from others to have one. I think the majority of women who have abortions are not in this group, but are women who have decided - for their own reasons - to terminate their pregnancies.

I realize that this country has never prosecuted women for having abortions. But my question is, why not? We certainly prosecute women who kill their 5-year-old child. And if the “real” blame is the people pressuring them, why don’t we prosecute those people for instigating murder? People who favor the penal approach seem to like prosecuting doctors who perform abortions. But if I hire a hit man to kill someone for me, both the hit man and I are liable for prosecution. Why should it not be the case with abortion too? Aren’t the abortion doctors just like the hit men? And aren’t the mothers who hire them just like those who let out a contract to have someone killed? It seems the penal approach to abortion is fraught with so many inconsistencies that I’m not sure anyone knows where we should go if and when Roe v. Wade (which I agree was a bad decision) is ever reversed.
But you’re just slandering me to claim that my opposition to abortion is false.
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I apologize for that. I had intended to comment about Republican appearances generally. I should not have made it sound like I was referring to you personally. Again, my apologies.
 
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So, which issue is most important, abortion, or the legal status of abortion? For example, if medical healthcare for all would have a greater impact on abortion than repealing Roe v. Wade, should it be pursed as a priority? The answer, for Catholics, should be no, as the Church has addressed the legal status of abortion being a first priority. Catholics must give serious consideration to this teaching before deciding they can justify voting for someone who blatantly promotes abortion. But the problem is much more complex than bumper sticker mottoes and slapping each other on the back for a clever bon mot.

For one thing, what can actually be done is one consideration. Both actions above are highly unlikely. Roe v. Wade can’t be overturned with a Republican everything, it appears; and (sorry universal healthcare people) Medicare for all can be passed by politicians who would never survive the insane tax increases needed. Even Obamacare met with resistance from voters who declined enrolling because of the cost.
 
It’s interesting that the discussion on the death penalty is still ongoing here in the US with Catholics/Christians…yet it seems all other Catholic/Christian countries have done away with it…personally I’m still not convinced terrorists…serial killers…mass murderers should not face the death penalty…

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-with-death-penalty/

And if this article below is true then we (the US) are definitely under Gods judgement
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ective-abortions-after-20-weeks-of-pregnancy/
 
Jeanne_S said:
He absolutely said that,his exact words were” I don’t Think a woman should be punished with a baby,”that was after his comment re his daughters’ if they should ever have an unplanned pregnancy.
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Here is a video of Obama talking to Pennsylvania in 2008 …


I can understand why people would feel as you do about these comments… and somewhat understandably so, because he certainly did not say ‘I oppose abortion’… like we would all like him to say.

I still believe that he was commenting more on his support for sex education and contraceptives than he was advocating that his daughter have an abortion… I think that twists those comments in to the worse possible meaning instead of what was actually meant.

I do have a separate question on the topic of abortion… why does President Trump get a pass for his vocal support of abortion in cases of rape and incest… Is it because he has done some good in de-funding planned parenthood? I often hear that Trump is this great pro-life advocate… but wonder how with supporting abortion in some cases, aggressively re-instituting the death penalty in the US and his brutal separation of families at the border that he is touted as a good, pro-life president??
 
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I’m glad you agree that Obama’s unabashly supports abortion is n this statement even for his own daughters
 
Jeanne_S said:
I’m glad you agree that Obama’s unabashly supports abortion is n this statement even for his own daughters
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As I said… I don’t agree with that statement. I can understand how people might come to that but think a more informed view would not support that conclusion.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Seriously? What do you infer from those comments?🤨
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Did you watch the video of his actual comments?

Here is what I said earlier …
I still believe that he was commenting more on his support for sex education and contraceptives than he was advocating that his daughter have an abortion… I think that twists those comments in to the worse possible meaning instead of what was actually meant.
 
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