Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

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signit said:
The tax cuts put more money in my pocket, and, more importantly, they helped the people less well off than I am.
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I can understand that perspective. In this age of instant gratification, a little extra money now is a big temptation…

I just think it is very reckless and diametrically opposed to conservative policy to add close to a trillion $ to the deficit…

I think Warren and Pelosi are actually right… the largest after tax earners got the largest percentage cut. I can understand the big earners getting the big $, but not the big %…

How does it make sense for a government to provide cuts that give the poor a little on a little and the well to do a lot on a lot? just makes not sense. From a Catholic point of view that’s a tough one to because it hardly offers a preferential option for the poor.
 
RuthAnne said:
We have a decent leader. He’s not perfect by any means, but he’s the best I’ve seen.
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I find that hard to fathom… I won’t even let my children listen to him speak because he is so vulgar. Nor can I let them watch the news because they might see the President lying or hear about how he is paying hookers off and lying about that to.

What do you like about the president as a leader?
 
godisgood77 said:
I don’t know how you could support a candidate like Trump who not only supports the grave evil of capital punishment, but has aggressively moved it forward in his few years in office.
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The Church does not absolutely prohibit capital punishment, but it certainly prohibits abortion. And in the U.S. how many killers are executed annually to counterbalance the million babies the Dems aid in killing annually.

So you’re going to counterbalance a million innocents with a handful of the guilty?
 
godisgood77 said:
How does it make sense for a government to provide cuts that give the poor a little on a little and the well to do a lot on a lot? just makes not sense.
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Just wanted to point out that the poor do not pay federal income taxes, so their tax burden cannot be reduced.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The Church does not absolutely prohibit capital punishment, but it certainly prohibits abortion. And in the U.S. how many killers are executed annually to counterbalance the million babies the Dems aid in killing annually.

So you’re going to counterbalance a million innocents with a handful of the guilty?
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I was not comparing abortion and capital punishment… not making the two morally equivalent.

The Church prohibit the death penalty and has worked hard for a long time for its abolition. It is a grave evil…
 
Guinness said:
Since I plan to vote for Trump (In fact, I’d crawl over broken glass to do so), I’m obviously severely out of alignment with “our Catholic values”, and I’m okay with that.
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Confounding… to be sure

Why are you supporting and voting for him?
 
Annie said:
Just wanted to point out that the poor do not pay federal income taxes, so their tax burden cannot be reduced.
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You’re right only about 10 percent of those in the bottom quartile owe federal taxes…

However, payroll taxes which are the heaviest burden are about equal to all households.

Beside the point though… the tax cuts were bad economic policy… huge deficit creator, huge gift to the ultra wealthy
 
godisgood77 said:
The Church prohibit the death penalty and has worked hard for a long time for its abolition. It is a grave evil…
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I’m not sure that’s true. I personally oppose it because JPII did, and so I do out of reverence for him. But I don’t think it’s official Church teaching that it must be opposed in all circumstances.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I’m not sure that’s true. I personally oppose it because JPII did, and so I do out of reverence for him. But I don’t think it’s official Church teaching that it must be opposed in all circumstances.
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Church Teaching on capital punishment was developed recently…The death penalty is not admissible as an option for Catholics. Check out these links

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...h_doc_20180801_catechismo-penadimorte_en.html

https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2018/08/02/180802b.html
 
I am aware of recent developments Pope Francis put into the Catechism in 2018. I am not, however, persuaded that he has it right, and many, many theologians and scholars aren’t either. But as I said, I am personally opposed because of Pope JPII.

I recognize that both Pope Francis and Pope JPII based their conclusion on the assumption that killers can be detained securely now so they cannot endanger others. I think that’s the expression of an ideal, definitely not the reality.

It cannot be regarded as “intrinsically evil” if for millenia the Church did not regard it so.

www.firstthings.com

An Appeal to the Cardinals of the Catholic Church | Various

The Cardinals must advise Pope Francis to withdraw new teaching on the death penalty from the Catechism.
www.firstthings.com www.firstthings.com
 
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Ridgerunner said:
I recognize that both Pope Francis and Pope JPII based their conclusion on the assumption that killers can be detained securely now so they cannot endanger others. I think that’s the expression of an ideal, definitely not the reality.
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Actually… Pope Francis and the CDF based this development on the a deeper understanding of the inviolability of the human person, not effective detention. The essential development is the understanding that a person does not lose their dignity even after committing the worst crimes and therefore the death penalty is inadmissible.
Ridgerunner said:
I am aware of recent developments Pope Francis put into the Catechism in 2018. I am not, however, persuaded that he has it right, and many, many theologians and scholars aren’t either. But as I said, I am personally opposed because of Pope JPII.
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Many, many theologians and scholars rejected Papal Infallibility, Humanae Vitae, the Dogma of Assumption or Immaculate Conception, etc… It is a dangerous game to pick and choose which Church teaching we accept and reject.
 
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One more time. As I said, I oppose the death penalty out of reverence for Pope JPII, but not because I’m persuaded by the rationale used by him or by Pope Francis, either one. How could the Church possibly endorse an intrinsic evil for two thousand years, only to gain enlightenment in 2018?

If you read Pope Francis’ reasoning, he very much relies on the deterrence abilities of our modern age. So did Pope John Paul. But while it must be recognized that modern societies COULD provide, in effect, supermax conditions for all deadly dangerous inmates, and therefore should, it is not the reality today.
 
Ridgerunner said:
If you read Pope Francis’ reasoning, he very much relies on the deterrence abilities of our modern age. So did Pope John Paul. But while it must be recognized that modern societies COULD provide, in effect, supermax conditions for all deadly dangerous inmates, and therefore should, it is not the reality today.
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Certainly not.

My cousin used to say, with the death penalty, you could make a mistake and execute the wrong person, but without the death penalty, a guilty person could be set free to kill again.

There’s another thread today, about a convicted child rapist who was released by mistake:

thread

Granted, this person wasn’t a murderer and wasn’t in supermax, but it shows that these kinds of mistakes can be made.
 
Ridgerunner said:
How could the Church possibly endorse an intrinsic evil for two thousand years, only to gain enlightenment in 2018?
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Well we’re all entitled to believe what we will. That doesn’t change what the Church teaches though. The Church has come to a deeper understanding of the inviolability of the human person… they did so in 2018. Human understanding is constantly evolving and learning… the death penalty is now inadmissible based on that deeper understanding
 
godisgood77 said:
I don’t know how you could support a candidate like Trump who not only supports the grave evil of capital punishment, but has aggressively moved it forward in his few years in office.
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The Democrat candidate will support the intrinsic evil of abortion, and may be among those who want to aggressively move it forward.

Unfortunately, in my state if I vote for a third party, which I assume you are advocating, that is one vote away from someone who will appoint USSC justices who are not activist. There are 2 justices who are over 80 and thus not unlikely to leave the Court in the next presidential term.
 
Ridgerunner said:
the million babies the Dems aid in killing annually.
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It is inaccurate to say that the Dems aid in killing babies. What of the mothers? They are the ones whose decision kills the baby. The Dems not prosecuting her criminally does not force her to do it. I would think these selfish mothers ought to be the chief target of your ire.
 
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