Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

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RuthAnne said:
Whether true or not, none of those things take away from the things he has accomplished.

Like I said, he’s not the best thing in the world. They all have faults. He’s the best I’ve seen in my lifetime and I’ve seen quite a few. And I really don’t care if his words or actions hurt anyone’s feelings. Not at all.
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Well, I do care if he insults people who deserve respect. I do care if he undermines the trust in the media and the value of a free press even as he plainly outstrips even the worst of them in pedalling brazen falsehoods–and he has!! Tell me a lie told about him, I can tell you five he’s told about others or that he’s made up to make himself look better!

I really don’t know what he’s accomplished that has been what any other Republican wouldn’t have done or what other Presidents in my lifetime haven’t done better. Please list some. I could give you a laundry list of things he’s done worse.

People say, “we could do worse,” and they mean we could elect a Democrat. Other than successfully not being a Democrat, what exactly has he done better?
 
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PetraG said:
The abortion rate in the US before Roe v. Wade for women 15-44 is estimated to have been 16.3 per 1,000 women 15-44.
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This is a bit misleading. The rate of 16.3/1000 is accurate for 1973, the year at the very beginning of which Roe v Wade was ruled upon. So most of those abortions occurred after the legalization imposed by the USSC.

In the years before the case, several states legalized abortion to varying degrees: in 1970, Hawaii and New York were the first states to decriminalize abortion altogether.

This may explain how the abortion rate increased ten-fold from one year to the next: from .5/1000 women in 1969, when the only permissions for abortion were strongly health-related, to 5/1000 in the year NY and HI decriminalized abortion.

In 1971, 4 more states and DC seem to have joined NY and HI in decriminalization, doubling the rate to 11.1/1000.

So as we can see, decriminalization led to an enormous increase in the rates of abortion.

(Numbers from here: Historical abortion statistics, United States )
 
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PetraG said:
If you look at Chile as an example, you can see that criminalization alone, even if it covers an entire country, does not save children’s lives. That is not enough.
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I remember back when those who support the legalization of abortion were telling us abortion rates in various nations in Africa. What they had done was determine a rate for abortions in the cities, and then extrapolated that number throughout the population.

Where do the numbers about Chile’s abortion rates come from?
 
The governmental data on abortions in the 60s and 70s only includes legal abortions. So obviously legalizing abortion led to a huge jump in legal abortions. What the data doesn’t show is that there was a corresponding jump in all abortions.
 
farronwolf said:
The results in this updated brief show that in Texas in 2017, illegal immigrants were 47 percent less likely to be convicted of a crime than native-born Americans and legal immigrants were about 65 percent less likely to be convicted of a crime than native-born Americans. The conviction and arrest rates for illegal immigrants were lower than those for native-born Americans but higher than those for legal immigrants. This result holds in just about every case, including homicide, sex crimes, larceny, and most other crimes.
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How did the rate of unsolved crimes correlate to these numbers?

The reason I ask is that naturally illegal immigrants likely to commit crimes are very fluid in their living arrangements. They commit a crime in one place and they can go to another and often pick up a new identity on the way. This makes them extremely hard to catch.

Looking at arrest and conviction rates works only if the department in question has a perfect record of solving crimes.
 
This does not show that there was a “corresponding jump in all abortions.”
 
Annie said:
The reason I ask is that naturally illegal immigrants likely to commit crimes are very fluid in their living arrangements. They commit a crime in one place and they can go to another and often pick up a new identity on the way. This makes them extremely hard to catch.
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So, do you know a lot of illegal immigrants? If the data doesn’t bear out the evil immigrant caricature, personal information might. My own experience, as one who lives in an immigrant rich environment, is that the one’s who are illegal keep such a low profile they seldom commit any act that could bring them in contact with the police. Most are not as “fluid” as you are describing.
 
I wrote: “The reason I ask is that naturally illegal immigrants likely to commit crimes are very fluid in their living arrangements.”

I know a lot of immigrants but assume they are here legally. I know at least some are but one immigrant I knew told me she was here illegally, and she was from Europe.

However, given the situation, I can see that criminals here illegally probably do not have a large footprint that police can use to find them. They probably only have burner phones, no bank accounts, and people in other cities and countries where they can go, so it is easy for them to leave town if they need to.

In North Carolina, illegal immigrants are arrested at a far higher rate for sex crimes against minors: private individual collects info from crime reports

This obviously suffers from the same difficulty I mentioned to you about your statistics.

In addition, the likely victims of criminal Hispanic illegal immigrants will be other Hispanic immigrants and Hispanic people.
 
pnewton said:
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Illegal immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, and they tend to commit more serious crimes.
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If you believe that, then it could reflect in your vote. For me, I have found it to look more like a propaganda technique, similar to what was done with the Jews in 1930 Germany. I will vote for I believe has integrity and best represents the Catholic position.
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Okay.

I do believe that.

And I base it not only on statistics, but on what I perceive about the demographics.

The people who come illegally tend to be less likely than legal immigrants to assimilate, to have an education, to have job skills, to even be literate.

I am not saying every person, or even most, who come illegally is a criminal or a potential criminal, just that they’re less likely to fit the profile than the techie with a degree in computer science who came legally.
 
Fuerza said:
Despite his many apparent personal faults (which of course all of us have), he has been consistent in his pro-life measures and his appointment of conservative, pro-life judges. The next presidential term will almost certainly see another Supreme Court vacancy.
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I realize this is a late reply, sorry about that. First of all, I have absolutely no problem with those who decide to vote for Trump in order to obtain pro-life judges. Its a proxy vote for the Supreme Court, I get that.
But lets not equate the personal faults that most of us have to Trump’s many apparent personal faults. I know few people who are as narcissistic as he is. His behavior in the past with regards to women is not acceptable at all to most of us.
 
Yes, and condoms and other forms of birth control do work to keep that number lower, although the use of certain condoms don’t prevent std’s and some forms of birth control are abortive. Thus, discouraging birth control leads to higher rates of abortion and std’s according to the research I’ve seen on this.
 
Also, the general statistical consensus has it that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes overall, and the Arizona study to the contrary has been criticized by researchers as being inaccurate, although I can’t remember why.
 
Annie said:
I remember back when those who support the legalization of abortion were telling us abortion rates in various nations in Africa. What they had done was determine a rate for abortions in the cities, and then extrapolated that number throughout the population.

Where do the numbers about Chile’s abortion rates come from?
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I think some of the numbers come from surveys. At one time, though, roughly 1/5 of OB-GYN hospitalizations were from botched abortions, and the mortality rate was very high, too. There is no doubt that lots of abortions were being performed, even though it was a crime to do it.

There are places where the abortion rate is unfortunately high because women fear the consequences of being found pregnant even more. This is in places such as those where even rape victims are blamed and cannot find a marriage partner or are subjected to shunning or worse. Women will seek abortions when being found out seems a fate worse than death, and that is on the society’s lack of mercy, too.
 
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tafan2 said:
I know few people who are as narcissistic as he is. His behavior in the past with regards to women is not acceptable at all to most of us.
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I think Trump is fairly typical when it comes to narcissism. Most people are pretty narcissistic, they just don’t admit it. Trump admits it. My goodness, even the school systems nowadays encourage narcissism. You can’t even turn on the TV without hearing a commercial proclaim how “You deserve it”. Sometimes his self-congratulations are off-putting to me. But then I hear self-praising from someone or other on almost a daily basis, so I don’t consider it unusual in itself.

I’m not sure his behavior with women is much different from that of most people. He had an affair with a woman he later married, but other than that, I don’t know. It’s possible the claims like Daniels’ are just money-seeking.
 
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