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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
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I have this same suspicion about politicians who legalize marijuana— that they want to keep us dopey and slow and feeling fiiiine
Who's Going to Pay the Bills?: Purpose-Driven Coronavirus Business Shutdowns Cause Economic Catastrophe
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AlNg
Guest
What a joke America is. Liquor stores and marijuana dispensaries are essential to the American society?
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
I know I just made a joke about legalizing marijuana, but it is an actual medication when used under a doctor’s supervision.
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AlNg
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Yes, so is medication which contains cocaine.
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Anrakyr
Guest
Don’t strawman please.
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Welshrabbit
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You expect prices to go lower than they are now in the near future?
farronwolf
New member
Yep. Might be wrong but the market really didn’t reflect the real economic slowdown, or the money being infused by the gov.
Once all that dries up, there should be a more realistic view of where the economy is at. It will take time.
I might be wrong, who knows for certain. The gov. may keep handing out free money.
Once all that dries up, there should be a more realistic view of where the economy is at. It will take time.
I might be wrong, who knows for certain. The gov. may keep handing out free money.
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Erikaspirit16
Guest
Let me move from the theoretical to what’s actually happening.
This afternoon I went to my bank to make a deposit–at the outside ATM.
There was a big sign on the bank door–as there has been for weeks–“Bank closed. Go to drive-in window to make deposits. If there is some essential business, please make an appointment.”
So there were two guys waiting at the door. Bank clerk comes to door: “Do you have an appointment?” “Yes, I’m Mr. X.” “Come in.”
Next guy. “Sir, do you have an appointment?” “No.”
“What sort of transaction do you need to make?” “I want to make a deposit.”
“The drive-through window is open for deposits. Please go there.” “I want to come inside.”
“Sir, you can’t comes inside to make a deposit. You have to go to the drive-through window.”
“I’ve been a customer here for 20 years…”
At this point I couldn’t help myself, so I broke in “But there hasn’t been a pandemic for the last 20 years.”
“This doesn’t concern you. Why are you sticking your nose in?”
“Because it does concern me–if you go inside the bank and infect the employees, that affects me.”
“I’ve got something in my glove box for you. I should shoot you right now.”
“Oh, you must have voted for Trump!” End of conversation.
So that’s what it’s come to: The rules don’t apply to “me” because “I’m” somehow special. And I’ll threaten to shoot anyone who gets in my way. Charming.
This afternoon I went to my bank to make a deposit–at the outside ATM.
There was a big sign on the bank door–as there has been for weeks–“Bank closed. Go to drive-in window to make deposits. If there is some essential business, please make an appointment.”
So there were two guys waiting at the door. Bank clerk comes to door: “Do you have an appointment?” “Yes, I’m Mr. X.” “Come in.”
Next guy. “Sir, do you have an appointment?” “No.”
“What sort of transaction do you need to make?” “I want to make a deposit.”
“The drive-through window is open for deposits. Please go there.” “I want to come inside.”
“Sir, you can’t comes inside to make a deposit. You have to go to the drive-through window.”
“I’ve been a customer here for 20 years…”
At this point I couldn’t help myself, so I broke in “But there hasn’t been a pandemic for the last 20 years.”
“This doesn’t concern you. Why are you sticking your nose in?”
“Because it does concern me–if you go inside the bank and infect the employees, that affects me.”
“I’ve got something in my glove box for you. I should shoot you right now.”
“Oh, you must have voted for Trump!” End of conversation.
So that’s what it’s come to: The rules don’t apply to “me” because “I’m” somehow special. And I’ll threaten to shoot anyone who gets in my way. Charming.
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HarryStotle
Guest
That is correct. However, merely asserting “whataboutism” is frequently a deflection from taking up the difficult task of making a proper comparison.HarryStotle:
And likes don’t suddenly a good argument make but we still have them to show support …
Someone may fail to properly show the comparable features that make the two cases relevantly similar, but someone who merely assets “whataboutism” is demonstrating an unwillingness to entertain the possibility that the two cases might be similar. It amounts to a deflection.
Rather than asserting “whataboutism” why not request the interlocutor to present their case for treating the two instances alike?
Could it be because of an unwillingness to consider the possibility?
To demonstrate the point, here are a series of “comparables” that have made the news cycle recently.
Each one contains two instances of very similar events, behaviours or actions. Thoughtful analysis would mean showing a willingness to identify a guiding principle that makes the parallel cases sufficiently similar to make them comparable.
It is possible to take a “stance” based upon ideological bias that the cases are not similar “enough.” Likes, as you say “don’t suddenly a good argument,” but it is also true that a person might be intellectually and willfully dishonest and continually hold that the similarities are not persuasive.
I would suggest that anyone who plays the “whataboutism” card without even bothering to look at the similarities in an intellectually honest manner is showing bias right off the bat.
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Anrakyr
Guest
The burden of an argument lies totally on the presenters. Tone, framing and point is on them. If they fail to properly present the thesis by using lax language in this case “what about” vs “I see a double standard” that’s not my problem.
What people fail too see is the tone and phrasing of words carries with it implication. While no one is responsible for how others feel they are responsible for how they are understood. As someone with autism I have to conform to the rest of the world’s expectations of body language and speech. In exchange I expect them to cut me some slack but it’s some, not a get out of jail free card.
As such it’s not a bias, it’s an expectation to hold people to a higher standard of thought. While I can be charitable I’m not obligated to raise the standard of someone else’s point because they can’t be asked.
I’m not here to make your points for you(plural). If you(plural) need a second go at it because you(plural) messed up then sure, have at it. We got time.
However I’m not required to entertain weak arguments born from logical fallacy even if you may have a point but can’t or won’t voice it.
It’s the same standard I’m held too.
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fredystairs
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I read recently that something like 500 restaurants will be permanently closed because of the pandemic. These were chain restaurants and not the mom and pop variety that wouldn’t make the national news.
Now it could be argued that some of these would have closed anyway, because they were failing and the pandemic merely hastened their demise. However, that cannot be argued in every case.
The article further stated that for some restaurants, it would not be financially prudent for them to only partially reopen because they still would not be able to cover their costs.
Now 500 restaurants in the US is nothing. But I think that this will cover other industries as well. I agree that it will take some time to get this sorted out. I think though that we will be in for rough times short term.
Pax
Now it could be argued that some of these would have closed anyway, because they were failing and the pandemic merely hastened their demise. However, that cannot be argued in every case.
The article further stated that for some restaurants, it would not be financially prudent for them to only partially reopen because they still would not be able to cover their costs.
Now 500 restaurants in the US is nothing. But I think that this will cover other industries as well. I agree that it will take some time to get this sorted out. I think though that we will be in for rough times short term.
Pax
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1cthlctrth
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How do you feel about the protests taking place in Minneapolis regarding the murder of George Floyd? Are they practicing social distancing?
Or, do you only oppose the opening of businesses?
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StudentMI
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I believe that poster is suspended. Might not get an answer for a while.
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1cthlctrth
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What do you think of the protesters (the peaceful ones) in Minneapolis and other cities regarding the murder of George Floyd? Are they practicing social distancing? Are they endangering the lives of others?
Or, are you only in favor of practicing extreme social distancing when it is used for the purpose of shutting down businesses?
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Erikaspirit16
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When did you stop beating your wife?
Obviously you can’t have a mass protest with social distancing. But they’re not doing it for themselves for selfish reasons, they’re doing it for society. Businesses that want to open are doing it for selfish (although understandable) reasons.
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AlNg
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Exactly. If covid-19 is as deadly as they say it is with 100000 dead in the USA already, why are politicians advocating peaceful protests. How can the protests be peaceful if, by not practicing social distancing, the protesters are causing the spread of a vicious deadly virus which can result in the horrible deaths of thousands of innocent victims?
Why throw 35 million people out of work, shut down schools, courts and other businesses, but at the same time allow and encourage people to protest in crowds which will only cause more and more deaths due to a highly contagious and rapidly spreading disease?
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1cthlctrth
Guest
First, thanks very much for your courage to reply.
However, I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying that because the peaceful protesters are “not doing it for selfish reasons”, then it’s ok for them to put themselves and others at risk of coronavirus?
Or, are you alleging that coronavirus decides to infect everybody else other than peaceful protesters?
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Erikaspirit16
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As usual, most people on this forum reduce everything to black and white (not racially, just two totally opposed sides…). The world isn’t black and white, it’s various shades of grey. So is it “OK”? Not really. But neither is repeated police brutality, racism, and legalized murder. So I suppose all the protesters could stay home and write angry letters to the chiefs of police. How much good would that do? I’m sure there would be lots of scenarios where groups of people would congregate to do something you approved of.
Once again (sigh) why did every country in the world (with a few exceptions like Taiwan) have a lockdown? Was it a world-wide Democratic conspiracy to ruin the world economy? Please. And–again–what is the purpose of the lockdowns? To stop the spread of the virus? No. It never was and never pretended to be. It was to SLOW the spread and “flatten the curve,” which it did. Although it remains to be seen what’s going to happen now with the re-openings–and the mass protests.
But yes, I would argue that there is a huge difference between holding a pool party in the Ozarks with hundreds of people and having a protest against legalized murder with hundreds of people.
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HarryStotle
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Right. Feeding your family, paying your bills, earning an honest income are all “selfish” reasons. However, looting stores of expensive purses, iPhones, cheesecakes and classic automobiles definitely are not “selfish,” but done to “help” society see its shortcomings. Very unselfish of the destructive to destroy, but selfish of the productive to want to be productive.1cthlctrth:
When did you stop beating your wife?
Obviously you can’t have a mass protest with social distancing. But they’re not doing it for themselves for selfish reasons, they’re doing it for society. Businesses that want to open are doing it for selfish (although understandable) reasons.
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HarryStotle
Guest
The problem here is that the protesters — at least those prone to destructive behaviours — are very selective about when, where and why they decide to “protest.”1cthlctrth:
As usual, most people on this forum reduce everything to black and white (not racially, just two totally opposed sides…). The world isn’t black and white, it’s various shades of grey. So is it “OK”? Not really. But neither is repeated police brutality, racism, and legalized murder. So I suppose all the protesters could stay home and write angry letters to the chiefs of police. How much good would that do? I’m sure there would be lots of scenarios where groups of people would congregate to do something you approved of.
Once again (sigh) why did every country in the world (with a few exceptions like Taiwan) have a lockdown? Was it a world-wide Democratic conspiracy to ruin the world economy? Please. And–again–what is the purpose of the lockdowns? To stop the spread of the virus? No. It never was and never pretended to be. It was to SLOW the spread and “flatten the curve,” which it did. Although it remains to be seen what’s going to happen now with the re-openings–and the mass protests.
But yes, I would argue that there is a huge difference between holding a pool party in the Ozarks with hundreds of people and having a protest against legalized murder with hundreds of people.
When Justine Damond was shot and killed by a Somali-born police officer in 2017 there was a lag of about 8 months before a decision was made to prosecute him for murder or manslaughter.
Why was there no protest for the criminal actions of this police officer?
When the grooming gangs were active in the UK and it took years to investigate the rapes and sexual abuse of thousands of young girls because of the reticence of the police and justice authorities to arrest and send to trial the primarily Pakistani perpetrators, where were the protestors? There was only silence on the part of the perpetually outraged mobs.
The outrage seems very political and very determined to bring about predetermined ends — those of the progressive leftists.
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