Why are there a lot of misinformed and frankly uneducated Catholics that frown upon orthodox Church teachings and Traditions that were otherwise belov

[Salibi]

But I think this forum is for those who identify as traditional Catholics

This forum is not for “traditional” Catholics. This forum is for anyone who’s Catholic. Second, while I didn’t care enough to raise trouble over it before, I would like to point out now that using the term “traditional” Catholic to describe a Latin Rite Catholic who ignores Church teaching and only exclusively attends the EF because he/she thinks it’s “holier” is highly imprecise and especially offensive to Eastern Catholics as it implies that Eastern Catholic churches are somehow less “traditional” than EF- celebrating Latin parish. Cannot stress enough how much that isn’t the case. The fact that this forum has an “Eastern Catholicism” forum and a “Traditional Catholicism” forum is of slight annoyance to me.

mean, it appears that you’re criticizing fellow Catholics while admitting you’re on a forum that you don’t identify with anyway

Wasn’t criticising as much as pointing out an extremely common phenomenon that I’ve observed time and again. But yeah, I am indeed critical of “traditional” Catholics who apply a “my way or the highway” approach to the Latin Mass and dismiss OF-attending Catholics are “irreverent” or “less holy”. I find that both forms have many good, holy Catholics- indeed the form of Mass is a non-issue, and this is Church teaching.

There are a lot of good places for non-traditional Catholic discussions here at CAF. Maybe it’s best to just stay there.
Just a suggestion

Suggestion rejected as someone needs to provide readers of threads with correct Catholic beliefs and not let “traditional” Catholics let visitors leave with incorrect impressions of the Catholic faith and undue notions of the OF and EF masses.

And for the record, I and my fellow Eastern Catholics as much traditional Catholic as any Latin Christian.

Good day.

 

[Emeraldlady]

That is only a part. The Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Christ, whether a TLM or an NO.

The Last Supper was only the beginning of His passion.

We are partaking of His sacrifice at Calvary.

This is why there is always to be a crucifix on the altar table.

And the most important thing is eucharist (thanksgiving) for His Real Presence. The Church has always striven to guard that Truth in different practices and explanations. He is as truly Present in the Bread and Wine as He is was to the Apostles at the Last Supper.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Yes you are correct but it does not stop there. The Mass is the representation of Christ’s complete sacrifice, which went all the way to His death at Calvary.

The priest is offering that sacrifice on the altar, the unbloody re-presentation of that sacrifice, His passion and death, to the Father for us at every Mass.

That is what the Mass is.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

But I think this forum is for those who identify as traditional Catholics.

It isn’t and the subtopic is just a category.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

using the term “traditional” Catholic to describe a Latin Rite Catholic who ignores Church teaching and only exclusively attends the EF because he/she thinks it’s “holier” is highly imprecise and especially offensive to Eastern Catholics as it implies that Eastern Catholic churches are somehow less “traditional” than EF- celebrating Latin parish. Cannot stress enough how much that isn’t the case. The fact that this forum has an “Eastern Catholicism” forum and a “Traditional Catholicism” forum is of slight annoyance to me.

CAF has used these designations for over 10 years now. There is never an intent to offend anyone. The fact that you are annoyed by something does not mean it is wrong, and I’ll also suggest that you don’t speak for Eastern Rite Catholics.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Suggestion rejected as someone needs to provide readers of threads with correct Catholic beliefs and not let “traditional” Catholics let visitors leave with incorrect impressions of the Catholic faith and undue notions of the OF and EF masses.

It assumes that you have the correct understanding and that it is your job to present your opinions to those who hold a different view than you have. I believe it’s enough to leave it to the moderators here to sort out false teaching. I’d be concerned that already you disagree with (oppose?) the naming of these forums by CAF administration. Right?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The fact that you are annoyed by something does not mean it is wrong

That’s not a real argument.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Yes you are correct but it does not stop there. The Mass is the representation of Christ’s complete sacrifice, which went all the way to His death at Calvary.

The priest is offering that sacrifice on the altar, the unbloody re-presentation of that sacrifice, His passion and death, to the Father for us at every Mass.

That is what the Mass is.

Yes and you must know that I know that being a practicing Catholic my whole life. What I’m addressing is that the Priest in Persona Christi, is recreating the words and instruction of the Last Supper and we the people are there in the Presence of Christ just as truly as the Apostles were. The Church recognised that this change from the old Tridentine Mass, was a legitimate desire of the people for that experience of His Presence.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

That’s not a real argument.

I’ll suggest that I would not go to the Eastern Rite forum and complain about their practices or attitudes towards things (if I had anything to complain about). The forum is for Eastern Rite Catholics or those who are interested.
The same holds here.
Coming to this forum with no interest, or even an opposition towards, traditional Catholicism is not a good practice.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I’ll suggest that I would not go to the Eastern Rite forum and complain about their practices or attitudes towards things (if I had anything to complain about). The forum is for Eastern Rite Catholics or those who are interested.
The same holds here.
Coming to this forum with no interest, or even an opposition towards, traditional Catholicism is not a good practice.

This only concerns the topic not the posters themselves.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

This only concerns the topic not the posters themselves.

Even so, if people use this forum to bash traditional Catholicism, then someone needs to defend it. Those who defend it, defend the topic - and therefore this forum is for them. Otherwise, the bashers would destroy it, as they attempt to do in parishes and chanceries around the world.

 

[Emeraldlady]

VanitasVanitatum:

This only concerns the topic not the posters themselves.

Even so, if people use this forum to bash traditional Catholicism, then someone needs to defend it. Those who defend it, defend the topic - and therefore this forum is for them. Otherwise, the bashers would destroy it, as they attempt to do in parishes and chanceries around the world.

Did you read the title of the thread at all?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Did you read the title of the thread at all?

The question is why there are many misinformed and frankly uneducated Catholics that frown upon orthodox Church teachings and Traditions that were otherwise beloved hundreds of years ago. I think the OP is not looking for opinions from misinformed and uneducated Catholics who frown on Catholic tradition.
Although if any such want to try to answer the question, please let us know that you are among that number and perhaps we can help you.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

Did you read the title of the thread at all?

The question is why there are many misinformed and frankly uneducated Catholics that frown upon orthodox Church teachings and Traditions that were otherwise beloved hundreds of years ago. I think the OP is not looking for opinions from misinformed and uneducated Catholics who frown on Catholic tradition.
Although if any such want to try to answer the question, please let us know that you are among that number and perhaps we can help you.

You genuinely don’t see any ‘bashing’ of non traditional Catholics in that do you??

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Yes and you must know that I know that being a practicing Catholic my whole life. What I’m addressing is that the Priest in Persona Christi, is recreating the words and instruction of the Last Supper and we the people are there in the Presence of Christ just as truly as the Apostles were.

In all charity, there are many people who have been practicing Catholics their whole life but that doesn’t mean there is an understanding of the faith.

As I said above you are correct. He is recreating the words of Christ’s Last Supper but it doesn’t end there. For over 2000 years the Mass has been the unbloody sacrifice, the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. That did not change with the institution of the N.O. Mass. There isn’t a new “upper room rite of the Mass”. Nor was there a change of of this understanding from the Tridentine Mass. Laity have been instructed and catechized incorrectly to believe the Mass is only the Last Supper, a meal, but it just isn’t correct.

The Church recognised that this change from the old Tridentine Mass, was a legitimate desire of the people for that experience of His Presence.

What people want the Mass to be makes absolutely no difference from what it is.

Saint Pope John Paul II Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1323 At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice of his Body and Blood. This he did in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a Paschal banquet ‘in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.’

1337 In order to leave them a pledge of this love, in order never to depart from his own and to make them sharers in his Passover, he instituted the Eucharist as the memorial of his death and Resurrection, and commanded his apostles to celebrate it until his return;

1359 The Eucharist, the sacrament of our salvation accomplished by Christ on the cross, is also a sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for the work of creation. In the Eucharistic sacrifice the whole of creation loved by God is presented to the Father through the death and the Resurrection of Christ

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice : "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory

 

[Bill_B_NY]

You genuinely don’t see any ‘bashing’ of non traditional Catholics in that do you??

I thought it was gentle and considerate by merely saying that they’re misinformed and uneducated. I would use other terms, but in any case, no I don’t see it as bashing at all.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

You genuinely don’t see any ‘bashing’ of non traditional Catholics in that do you??

I thought it was gentle and considerate by merely saying that they’re misinformed and uneducated. I would use other terms, but in any case, no I don’t see it as bashing at all.

I’ve been reading this thread from the beginning and I challenge you to find any traditionalist bashing from a non traditionalist. On the other hand there are numerous instances of unprovoked and insulting bashing going the other way. Gosh this happens a lot by the way.

More from the OP.

I personally hate how some clergy and laity are so open to embrace sudden changes in the Church but are too hesitate and need I say ignorant to study their sacred God given roots. it seems with each passing generation Catholics are becoming more and more passive and indifferent to their faith.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

On the other hand there are numerous instances of unprovoked and insulting bashing going the other way.

You find some people to be insulting. You do not like this (or them?).
Did I understand that correctly?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I have attended the Traditional Latin Mass, on and off, for over 30 years, first under SSPX auspices, then in union with the local dioceses. I will still attend an SSPX Mass if the occasion arises, but my strong preference is for diocesan TLMs. I assist at the Novus Ordo because I have to — my nearest non-sedevacantist TLM is 2 hours away, and I have family care responsibilities that make this a trip I can only take 3 or 4 times a year. My parish’s Novus Ordo is very inspiring and traditional — the priests are amazing, and EMHCs for the Host are used very sparingly — but I would attend only the TLM if I had the choice.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

I assist at the Novus Ordo because I have to — my nearest non-sedevacantist TLM is 2 hours away, and I have family care responsibilities that make this a trip I can only take 3 or 4 times a year.

I have a similar situation. Although I would not praise the liturgical form of the NO that I attend. The preaching is, for the most part, terrible. In general, the attitude among the people is anti-traditional but I am not surprised by this, given the preaching and the liturgical style,