Why are there mutterings of discontent within the Catholic clergy towards our Pope?

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Yeah, imagine if every plague and punishment was placed on us each, for when we transgressed the Lord!

I’d be dead.
 
Bottom line: The Church has never said definitively that anyone is in hell, including Judas. We certainly may believe he is there, but the Church has made no definitive statement.
 
Yes, my friend. I will not impose my personal faith based opinion. And I also leave it in God’s place.

Though, the Scriptural account leaves no hope. I’d say Scripture gave more hope about Simon the Magician, than Judas.

In fact, was suicide the reason to replace the Apostle? Did they replace James, in this fasion?

Anyway, do you think the Dubia constitutes “mutterings”? Do you think the Pope’s response to the Dubia was done in Apostolic faith?
 
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The damnation of Judas might not have been taught definitively, in a solemn definition, but it has been taught ordinarily by the Church in the liturgy, for example.
 
I think the dubia you refer to is interesting. Clearly, Burke has not been fond of this pope since he was elected, and likely well before.
 
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I don’t think there is any question Judas was lost.
Jesus was known to leave the 99 and 9 to find lost.
The Prodigal was lost.
Those he asked God to forgive for they know not what they do were lost.
The Adulteress was lost. The tax collectors. The harlots. The woman by the well.
In another sense 12 Apostles had one lost.
I don’t make this leap that we can tell.
There are scholars on all sides interpreting the Son of ( perdition) which tells us it isn’t clear.
How hard would it be to clean up our liturgy?
Say a prayer for everyone except Judas. Not to be mean, but it is superfluous since you cannot help the damned with prayer.
 
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otjm said:
Bottom line: The Church has never said definitively that anyone is in hell, including Judas. We certainly may believe he is there, but the Church has made no definitive statement.
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The Church teaches that Hell is not empty, Catechism give the solemn proclamation from scripture:
1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!” Matt. 25:41
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Everyone is lost without Christ. This was not the nature of the title “son of perdition” given him by the Lord.

Jesus said He kept them all, but one.
 
Any Catholic who believes hell is empty is more than likely the type who goes to Church only on Christmas and Easter, and hasn’t been in a confessional in a decade.
 
Do you know how many Saints believed in( hope) for the possibility?
The FATHER OF FATHERS?
DO you know that what I am saying is orthodox church teaching?
 
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I think the increase in muttering has less to do with the Pope and more to do with increased access to information and communication online. 20 years ago only a handful of people might read an encyclical. Now anyone from inside the Vatican to an atheist on the other side of the world can find out and comment on what the Pope had for breakfast. The mutterings reflect less on the policies of the Holy Father and more on a culture obsessed with curiosity and criticism, and the means and motivation to do it.
 
I think there was an event in church history that declared " somebody" was there, but no specific identities. So, we can pray for all.
There is the writings of von Balthazar, and Holy Saturday. The nature of the sacrifice and his conjecture that hell was emptied basically by Christ’s light.
The are people like Bishop Barron who teach the orthodox Church view that we can pray for and hope all will be saved.
( My view). This is not far from our most recent previous Popes who retained a belief hell is a possibility.
The are Church fathers, including the FATHER OF FATHERS, who spoke of eventual reconcilliation.
There is scripture: He will be all in all.
Mystics like Blessed Julian of Norwich:
All will be well, All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.
That is a representive sample.
The proposition here chose a likely candidate, Judas.
My point was we do not as a church, take a position he is damned. This is why he is among the dead we pray for at mass.
And
We may as an orthodox belief, pray and hope.
 
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niceatheist said:
Now it is pretty unique in the West to have a non-Catholic government in any way involved in the appointment of bishop
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Not that unique, the Polish Communist Government had veto power over Bishop appointments. IIRC, Karol Wojtyła was the 6th choice as Archbishop of Krakow, the communists were convinced they could drive a wedge between him and the Archbishop of Warsaw, so they held out until he was named. It has been speculated the Vatican, through informers knew this was their strategy, so went through several names first in order to force the vetos, there by gaining flexibility in the future.
 
Maximus1 said:
I think there was an event in church history that declared " somebody" was there, but no specific identities. So, we can pray for all.
There is the writings of von Balthazar, and Holy Saturday. The nature of the sacrifice and his conjecture that hell was emptied basically by Christ’s light.
The are people like Bishop Barron who teach the orthodox Church view that we can pray for and hope all will be saved.
( My view). This is not far from our most recent previous Popes who retained a belief hell is a possibility.
The are Church fathers, including the FATHER OF FATHERS, who spoke of eventual reconcilliation.
There is scripture: He will be all in all.
Mystics like Blessed Julian of Norwich:
All will be well, All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.
That is a representive sample.
The proposition here chose a likely candidate, Judas.
My point was we do not as a church, take a position he is damned. This is why he is among the dead we pray for at mass.
And
We may as an orthodox belief, pray and hope.
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Per Catholic dogma one cannot say that all are certainly saved, for that is not divinely revealed and one cannot be certain without that. Therefore there is merely hope, for example, that unbaptized infants may be saved, through some merciful remedy for their purification from original sin and their access to the beatific vision.

As Tim Staples stated the “Church’s Magisterium has, in fact, taught that there are souls in hell now, and that there will be for all eternity.”
 
My point was we do not as a church, take a position he is damned. This is why he is among the dead we pray for at mass.
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There is a liturgical prayer for Judas?
How does the prayer go?
 
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