Why are they still protesting? What do they want?

[ImJustPro]

The majority of charter (and voucher) schools underperform traditional public school

According to who?

A vast majority of studies show that charter schools outperform traditional schools. Take these studies for example:

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This table can be found in page 63 of this meta-analysis: https://www.nber.org/papers/w21256.pdf

Charter and voucher schools are also much more likely to be racially segregated.

This is also untrue.

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This can be found in page 59 of the meta-analysis

 

[JoeFreedom]

So your conclusion is that because we have not nominated more black people to VP or President assumes institutionalized racism? Such a poor argument.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM:

Even the worst of the African American and Hispanic candidates - on both sides, in the past and present election cycles,- have been, from.what I have seen of them, at the very least as impressive as any of the actual nominees. That none of them.apart feom.Obama have been nominated at least suggests bias and racism within the institutions that are the party machines on each side.

I guess the majority of people that supposedly aren’t racist don’t haver much power in the first place.

Well, the fact that Presidents can be elected without a majority of the public vote shows that there is some truth in that. Money and connections (and maybe a wiingness to smear dirt on pthers) seem to play a large role.

 

[JoeFreedom]

I have no white guilt because I do not have a racist heart. But yet the liberal progressives tell this is not possible because I’m white. I am inherently racist.

If that last part were true then we are at an impasse because there is nothing I can do to not be a racist.

Edit: not directing at you but using your post to respond.

 

[LilyM]

So your conclusion is that because we have not nominated more black people to VP or President assumes institutionalized racism? Such a poor argument.

What’s the alternative? Less merit? Less hard work? Doesn’t seem to be the case.

Less of some of the other things that matter like money and infuence and media expoosure? Sure. But why would someone who is of equal merit have less of those things? Couldn’t possibly be the R word. Of course not.

 

[JoeFreedom]

You still have no argument. You hid your conclusion so it wasn’t evident and your response lacks any substance. If I am inherently racist then we can have no conversation.

 

[LilyM]

You still have no argument. You hid your conclusion so it wasn’t evident and your response lacks any substance. If I am inherently racist then we can have no conversation.

I’m not taking about you or other individuals really but group power structures.

I have come across studies where the exact same resume is sent to employers for the exact same job, only difference being some have names on them that are Chinese, Indian or otherwise clearly not Caucadsan and others don’t. No prizes for guessing which group gets the most callbacks for an interview.

Groupthink.is real, and institutions can be pervaded by racism.because of it despite individuals not being racist.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Funny thing is you cannot legislate the heart. I’d like to hear exactly how one proposes to do that and prove someone is actually biased racist or mysongonistic and ultimately who will police and decide when that happens.

 

[Poet]

They are still protesting precisely because of questions like this.

So if someone doesn’t ask, what do you want, they’re probably racist for not caring.
If they do ask, then they’re likewise, somehow…guilty for asking.

Maybe they just want anarchy.

Yes, many of them do.

What state or federal law sanctions violence against any group of people? This is rhetorical, I’m aware no law allows this in any state.

Exactly.

 

[sealabeag]

So important for Catholics to be aware of this. Protesting brutality is great, justice is great. The movement known as “Black Lives Matter” is not great, for the above reasons. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Peeps]

What do they want? They want their dream to come true:

“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

How can this be measured or quantitated? The “dream” has to be quantifiable in order to say that it has come true.

 

[BornInMarch]

They want accountability. Mr. Floyd’s murder wasn’t the first such case, or the last, but it was the most egregious in recent memory. They want to know that a police officer who blatantly commits murder will go to prison for it - not be filed back into the ranks like nothing happened, not given a slap on the wrist, but actually face consequences. Can you name a single instance of a police officer going to prison for killing an unarmed black person? Even one? I can’t.

I think a police force is necessary and that most police officers genuinely care about justice, but they have a lot of power and with that should come an equal amount of responsibility. They shouldn’t be allowed to just strangle people to death on a whim.

They’re still protesting because that still hasn’t happened. If the protestors let up the pressure before any change occurs then lawmakers will just go back to ignoring the problem.

 

[Peeps]

2.) Reform against police brutality is needed. A system-wide change is needed.

I think reform against citizen brutality is needed.

I watch the evening news (local) almost every evening, often twice (5:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m.) Every night on the television news, the various crimes in our city are reported, and pictures of the perpetrators accompany the reports.

And every night, I wonder why almost every criminal is black.

Why? WHY?!!! Someone please tell me why.

It makes it really hard to have a conversation and make any kind of changes when the people involved are seeing totally different realities.

It also makes it hard to have a conversation when the people involved won’t ask or answer questions like this. We’re all so busy trying to look “open-minded” and loving that we gloss over facts and come up with action plans that are all emotion and no measurable steps.

 

[Katie777]

I dont know what they want.
Every life matters. It’s time to move on
Things like this actually segregate. It an atrocity for sure.

 

[TULIPed]

How can this be measured or quantitated? The “dream” has to be quantifiable in order to say that it has come true.

Here’s the speech. It helps to read the whole thing to understand:

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm

 

[Usagi]

Minnesota is considering such things.

But the problem isn’t restricted to Minnesota.

It’s true that police forces are local, or state at best, but there is a nationwide problem with police culture and with racism more generally.

Back when MLK led protests, the problems were worst in the Southern states, but he still marched on Washington because DC is the nation’s capital.

 

[LilyM]

TULIPed:

What do they want? They want their dream to come true:

“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

How can this be measured or quantitated? The “dream” has to be quantifiable in order to say that it has come true.

Jesus had some big dreams. For all of us to be perfect as the Father is perfect, for us to be one as He and the Father are one. Are those quantifiable? Have they come true?

There is nothing wrong with having an ambitious dream, and if it is a dream of true justice and equality, nothing wrong with striving towards it even if we do not attain it.

 

[TULIPed]

Amen sister. That right there’ll preach. Amen.

 

[Usagi]

This is a difference in understanding and speech between the right and the left that I have only recently come to understand (I started out more right and have drifted leftward due to events like these).

When some people, mainly right-leaning, talk about racism or misogyny, they mean individual, internal feelings or attitudes. Obviously those aren’t readable on sight or correctable by law or policy. Hence there are questions like, “Do we know Derek Chauvin was acting out of racial animosity, or is he just a horrible example of a police officer whose last victim happened to be black?”

When other people, mainly on the left and in academia, talk about racism and misogyny, they mean social, cultural, and (less often these days) legal structures that privilege white people/men and disadvantage black people/women, whether or not individuals of the first group personally have hate in their hearts. The mere fact that George Floyd and many other unarmed black people, accused of non-violent crimes or no crime at all, die at the hands of police or police-wannabe citizen vigilantes, disproportionately to the black population, while even white mass murderers and serial killers can be captured alive, shows there is a problem no matter what was or wasn’t in Derek Chauvin’s heart. The fact that two weeks ago armed white people could accost police and government buildings in protest of public health measures and be met with no violence, while even the most peaceful protestors of Floyd’s fate are attacked with tear gas and rubber bullets (misused in far more dangerous ways than intended) shows that there is a problem. Something is messed up about policing and race relations in general, and the protesters aren’t interested in going home or quieting down until concrete steps are taken to change these structural problems and not just punish individual murders (though that’s nice as well).

 

[Peeps]

Here’s the speech. It helps to read the whole thing to understand:

Martin Luther King I Have a Dream Speech - American Rhetoric

I have read this speech many times, and I read it just now. It’s beautiful.

So what you’re trying to tell me is that throughout the United States, there are still lots of “Whites Only” signs, and there are schools that will not admit black children, and blacks and whites are not allowed to sit at table together (let alone date or marry each other), and blacks are forced to live in ghettos and denied the opportunity to buy a house in a “good” neighborhood.

Is that what you’re telling me?

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!

We have laws against these discriminatory acts, and these laws are enforced. In addition, we have hundreds of government programs that help black people to be able to get opportunities that they have been denied in the past; e.g., Affirmative Action.

Of course the laws are broken. ALL laws are broken by those with evil in their hearts.

And of course, not all black people are able to access the opportunities for various reasons. But many do get involved in the many MANY government programs that give them a “boost” into a world that up until the 1960s, was definitely a “white” world that was not eager to admit people of color.

What ELSE is needed? What other programs are needed?

Even white people would support the idea of some reforms in police departments; e.g., body cams, a whistle-blower protection plan, etc. Many white people have been harrassed by police, or treated in a way that was frightening, impolite, or sexist. So police reform, yes–within reason. i do not expect the police to agree to lose their guns and replace them with hugs.

So what else? Equal employment opportunities. From what I have seen over and over again, WOE to the company that practices any kind of discimination. Once it is made public, that company will go DOWN and eventually be out-of-business.

So what else? What is lacking in the United States laws and systems that would satisfy an organization like Black Lives Matter? Tell us. And make it specific and quantifiable. Onlly God knows the measure of love in each person–humans are incapable of using his measuring devices with any degree of accuracy.