Why aren't there on demand priestly miracles?

[allhers]

Back on post # 26, I addressed your original post, now I would just like to add this;
A simple yet effective prayer is this:
I believe, help my unbelief.

One other thing is that Jesus didn’t want us coming to Him for miracles only, He wants our faith. We walk by faith, and not by sight.

 

[peary]

I’ve posted this question a few times in related posts…it is always ignored. Is it too tough a question?

The RCC claims that priests have the power to forgive sins from apostolic succession.

The RCC claims that the apostles went out and forgave the sins of people. The scripture isn’t exactly crystal clear, but that is what they believe.

**It isn’t? **

**"[Jesus] said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.’ And then he breathed on them and said to them, ‘Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained’" (John 20:21-23).

“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us” (2 Cor. 5:18-20).**

We know from scripture, that the apostles were ordered by Jesus to cleanse the lepers and raise the dead. ( perform miracles in his name)

Why then does the Church claim that it’s priests have the power through apostolic succession to forgive the sins of men…but these same priests do not have the power to raise the dead or cleanse the lepers, which would also be through apostolic succession?

Ever read the lives of the saints? You’d be surprised.

Same question for transubstantiation. Priests have the miraculous ability to turn bread into Jesus whenever they want…but again, they don’t have the power to raise the dead or cleanse lepers whenever they want.

Priests do not have the ‘power’ to turn bread into Jesus whenever they want. What is THAT supposed to mean?

Any answer…anyone?

 

[onetimeposter]

Priests do not have the ‘power’ to turn bread into Jesus whenever they want. What is THAT supposed to mean?

It means that the Church has declared that ordained priest have the sole authority and power to summon the Holy Spirit and thereby have the Holy Spirit turn the bread into Christ’s flesh.

No other people possess this power. This power is derived, apparently through apostolic authority, but I am not sure how the Church can even know if they are doing it right…as their was no blue print left how to turn bread into Jesus’ flesh.

Trial and error to find the correct formula? Seeing as the accidents of the bread remain the same, how do they know if they are even doing it right? Maybe they are skipping an important step to allow for this sacred mystery to take place?!

That is what I meant.

 

[fbl9]

Hi OTP i’ll bring it here too,ever heard of the Eucharist miracles at Laconi(sic) try looking up on the inernet recorded Eucharist miracles.

 

[onetimeposter]

Hi OTP i’ll bring it here too,ever heard of the Eucharist miracles at Laconi(sic) try looking up on the inernet recorded Eucharist miracles.

Yes, it is called…The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

I tend not to believe that God tinkers with parlour tricks when their are people, children included, being slaughtered all over the world.

If God would choose to intervene to help a Monks unbelief by turning a piece of bread into flesh, then why wouldn’t God choose to intervene to save a woman from having her limbs hacked off in a national genocide?

 

[JRKH]

Yes, it is called…The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

I tend not to believe that God tinkers with parlour tricks when their are people, children included, being slaughtered all over the world.

If God would choose to intervene to help a Monks unbelief by turning a piece of bread into flesh, then why wouldn’t God choose to intervene to save a woman from having her limbs hacked off in a national genocide?

This is something of the big question isn’t it.
The problem with making this comparison is that it does not allow God to work in His own way and His own time. It tries to make god fit to what WE think should happen, or how a loving God should act.

God’s methods and timing are his own and we have a choice of either accepting or rejecting them. Should you reject this miracle as a "parlor tricK’ simply because YOU don’t think God would do this while other things are allowed to happen? Isn’t this a little like people taunting Jesus to come down off the cross if He is the Son of God? They saw miracles at his hands, heard His message of Love and Forgiveness, yet rejected his “parlor tricks” because He did not do what they thought the Messiah should do.

Peace
James

 

[bpbasilphx]

Priests have the miraculous ability to turn bread into Jesus whenever they want…but again, they don’t have the power to raise the dead or cleanse lepers whenever they want.

Actually, priests do not have the power. The Holy Spirit does.

 

[onetimeposter]

No, I simply choose not to believe that God is interventionist…meaning that on occasion he chooses to help some and other times he makes the choice not to help others.

He wouldn’t stop the holocaust, but he would turn a piece of bread into flesh to help a monks unbelief or help someone sell a house because they buried a Saints statue in their garden…nope, I don’t believe in that kind of a God.

God is everywhere and is in everything and we are in God. I don’t believe is some guy up in the sky far who sits around making decisions who he’s going to help and who he’s not going to help.

 

[GailMac]

Dear One Time,

I think you’re right in thinking God isn’t an “interventionist” in that He won’t force His Will on anyone. Free will is His gift to us, what we choose to do with it is our gift back to Him.

Those conducting a genocide have free will and they chose to destroy others. History is full of horrendous examples of man’s inhumanity to man. Following Jesus, we are following Love. It is obvious to me that those who do such things aren’t followers of Jesus. That is plain. I respect the notions of those who think God should just “put His foot down” and stop all the injustices in the world and make it a wonderful place it once was, a new-age Eden, etc… But that isn’t what He does. You are correct in seeing clearly that He isn’t as you put it “interventionist.” He asked the disciples to follow Him and then He went on to Calvary and died a horrendous death. He are asked to do the same…even die upon a cross for His sake. There are plenty of Martyrs even in our own day. One doesn’t have far to look even though the popular media mainly ignores this fact - there are still those whose only crime is loving Jesus and they die for it.

I’m still wondering why you have yet to comment on the example of St Padre Pio. He was a Priest of God and his example is stupendous! No, all our Priests aren’t Padre Pios, but many are holy in a humble way that doesn’t draw the attentions of the masses. I think if you wait to meet a Saint who can raise the dead before you cross the Tiber you might never get across. Don’t wait. Discard your doubts and trust the Church.

Remember the Church isn’t a hotel full of saints but a hospital full of sinners. We’d love to have you!

Peace,

Gail

 

[JRKH]

No, I simply choose not to believe that God is interventionist…meaning that on occasion he chooses to help some and other times he makes the choice not to help others.

He wouldn’t stop the holocaust, but he would turn a piece of bread into flesh to help a monks unbelief or help someone sell a house because they buried a Saints statue in their garden…nope, I don’t believe in that kind of a God.

God is everywhere and is in everything and we are in God. I don’t believe is some guy up in the sky far who sits around making decisions who he’s going to help and who he’s not going to help.

I understand this. I don’t really think of God in this way either.
I can tell you though that miracles do happen in the oddest ways and time and places. Why? I dunno:shrug:
I suspect it has to do with something Jesus said repeatedly to people seeking and getting miracles. Your faith has saved you. The one case in particular that jumps to mind is the centurian. He wouldn’t even let Jesus come to his house. He simply knew, believed, had faith, that if Jesus granted his request, his servant would be healed.
Too often we are looking for miracles for the wrong reasons. For our own pride, for our own gain, for some proof from God. Why when and How the convergence of God’s Power and our faith meet we have yet to figure out. It certainly isn’t scientific, but I’m convinced that this is where the answer lies - In our Faith and Trust in God.

It is through that Faith and trust that God’s power works. Remember Christ Promised that we could do all these things and more if we had faith the size of a mustard seed. Unfortunately, too often, our faith is subdued by doubt, cynicism, worldly concerns, fear etc. Thus we prevent God from manifesting Himself through us by our, “Lack of Faith”

Peace
James

 

[onetimeposter]

Remember the Church isn’t a hotel full of saints but a hospital full of sinners. We’d love to have you!

Peace,

Gail

Thank you…I’m actually on my way out of the RCC…30+ years.

Padre Pio…I don’t believe it…especially when you consider that the stigmata got larger and changed positions on his hand as he got older.

This is easily seen by looking at young vs old pictures. Another issue is the fact that he didn’t actually have holes through his hands, rather just superficial wounds.

If people want to believe it…they may and if it brings them closer to God, that’s a good thing.

 

[peary]

But we don’t know whether someone is truely sorry or not. You act like just because someone goes to confession their sins are forgiven, but you don’t know because you can’t read minds or souls. It is the same with sick people. They will be healed if it is God’s will.

Certainly one knows. If they are not truly sorry, they don’t go!
In fact, I don’t know any Catholic who takes the time to go to confession unless they are truly sorry and are ready to repent of their sins.

 

[JRKH]

Thank you…I’m actually on my way out of the RCC…30+ years.

What do you mean by this?? How can one be, "on the way out of the RCC.?
I could understand if you said you where having issues and were examining and discerning your place in Christ, something like that, but “on the way out” makes it sound like you’ve made your decision but haven’t made it to the door yet.

Padre Pio…I don’t believe it…especially when you consider that the stigmata got larger and changed positions on his hand as he got older.

This is easily seen by looking at young vs old pictures. Another issue is the fact that he didn’t actually have holes through his hands, rather just superficial wounds.

If people want to believe it…they may and if it brings them closer to God, that’s a good thing.

And Jesus wasn’t God because He couldn’t come down off the Cross.
Skeptics can and will find explanations for anything. Not saying your right or wrong, I honestly am not concerned with such details.

Peace
James

 

[onetimeposter]

What do you mean by this?? How can one be, "on the way out of the RCC.?
I could understand if you said you where having issues and were examining and discerning your place in Christ, something like that, but “on the way out” makes it sound like you’ve made your decision but haven’t made it to the door yet.

Exactly.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Thank you…I’m actually on my way out of the RCC…30+ years.

.

I hope you are talking to your priest or someone at your parish about your decision to leave the Church.

The Church is the body of Christ, but it is made up of sinners. For that reason it is far from perfect. Even with all the problems, I feel the same as Simon Peter did when Jesus asked him if he would leave him: Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. John 6:68

Where else are the sacraments, where else is the Real Presence, where else is the Church established by Jesus Christ? (From what you’ve posted, I guess you are having questions about all these things, which is why I hope you’re talking to someone at your parish or diocese. Posts on the Internet cannot replace human to human communication.)

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by JRKH
What do you mean by this?? How can one be, "on the way out of the RCC.?
I could understand if you said you where having issues and were examining and discerning your place in Christ, something like that, but “on the way out” makes it sound like you’ve made your decision but haven’t made it to the door yet.

I’m sorry to hear this.
Well, I guess if you’ve made the decision, then you’ve left.
Your not, " on your way".
All it takes is to turn your back and walk away.

May God Guide you to where He wishes you to be for now.
May His Love and mercy show through you in all you do.
May He teach you what you need.
And May He lead you back to His true Church in His Good Time.

God Bless

Peace
James

 

[GailMac]

I second James’ prayer for you One Time. I hope in time you will work out your differences with what you believe and how we practice. At least you are being honest about your doubts. A problem cannot be overcome unless one first admits there is a problem.

I would suggest you take your time about leaving and do one thing first - go on a retreat and talk to someone. If you still feel the same about your decision, then go for it, but if you don’t feel the same then start working on your spiritual life.

I think you should give the Church who has been yours for 30 years the benifit of the doubt so to speak, and get to know her a little better before you finalize your life changing decision. But I don’t know you and perhaps there is an underlying problem that is preventing you from experiencing the love you need to in the Church. I think if you go on a retreat and give someone the opportunity to help you, you won’t regret it.

May the peace of Christ remain yours and may you find the Divine Mercy you need to grow beyond your doubts and misunderstandings.

Peace,

Gail

 

[po18guy]

Your answer my question with a question.

Notice, again from scripture, that Christ did that an awful lot. And to whom He addressed the questions. He did that to those who, through doubt and hardness of heart, questioned even Him. Something to ponder.

 

[po18guy]

Thank you…I’m actually on my way out of the RCC…30+ years.

Padre Pio…I don’t believe it…especially when you consider that the stigmata got larger and changed positions on his hand as he got older.

This is easily seen by looking at young vs old pictures. Another issue is the fact that he didn’t actually have holes through his hands, rather just superficial wounds.

If people want to believe it…they may and if it brings them closer to God, that’s a good thing.

It appears that you must see proof before you will believe. This would make you an excellent Protestant. From the tenor of your posts, and the extreme doubts you have about nearly everything, I have doubts that you are Catholic. Certainly not one immersed in your faith.

If you actually are Catholic, know that the spirit of antichrist is attacking you. Want to fight back, or just to argue?

 

[onetimeposter]

It appears that you must see proof before you will believe.

I don’t believe in a God that intervenes to propagate parlor tricks, but allows things such as holocausts to take place.

This would make you an excellent Protestant. From the tenor of your posts, and the extreme doubts you have about nearly everything, I have doubts that you are Catholic.
**
I was a Catholic, a practicing Catholic, a Catholic obsessed with all of the rules of the RCC…however it would not be fair to call myself a Catholic any longer.**

Thanks for the compliment, that I’d make a great Protestant!

Certainly not one immersed in your faith.
**
I was, I am no longer.**

If you actually are Catholic, know that the spirit of antichrist is attacking you.

**Sure…whatever. **

Want to fight back, or just to argue?

I want to experience the sacred, a relationship with Jesus and live as a Christian. ** I do not find any of those desires in the RCC.**