Why can't Priests Preach ... like the Protestant Pastors can ?

[brb3]

I am not the one who made the claim. Why are you asking me for data to support your claim? Provide proof of your claim or retract it and don’t make it in the future.

Actually if we had the data, it probably wouldn’t convince you. As someone said here … Preaching is a Gift of H.S., and Protestants probably have more pulpit experience perfecting their gift. Protestant Ministers also frequently take their text from Paul, the chief and hardest worker of all the Apostolic Evangelists. However it is beyond dispute that Paul was the best educated and most zealous of the Apostles. For Paul, his superb education and scriptural knowledge was his special advantage, and reason he was selected by Christ for his Apostleship to the Gentiles.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Baptist preachers are ordained, There are ordaination councels in the Baptist faith. Many protestant Pastors have four years of collage plus seminary. And many have doctorites.

All right.

 

[Young_Thinker]

You were talking about Protestant ministers being less educated Catholic priests. In that post you claimed that Baptist (and only Baptist) preachers are not ordained as support for your claim that Protestant ministers are less educated than Catholic priests. So, if by ordination you really didn’t mean in the more generic sense (that the body of the church in question verifies their education and understanding) then why did you talk of it in a post about education levels of Protestant ministers vs. Catholic priests and why did you specifically say that Baptists are not ordained when using the rubrics of Holy Orders no Protestant is ordained? Stop back peddling and admit what you really meant.

I certainly was not say that with ill will; again, I apologize for any vaguity. I was trying to distinguish “true” ordination from having little or no more than a clerical license. As for mentioning Baptists, it was just an example; I was not “singling them out.” Also, I was not saying that no Protestants are ordained(e.g. Anglicans and Lutherans claim an apolostic succession), and the Presbyterians seem to often be relatively well-educated (they have seminaries like Princeton).

 

[Young_Thinker]

Yes; you made one sustantive claim and about 10 unsubstantive claims. Either substantiate your claims or stop making them. It’s that simple!

I disagree; I am explaining the best that I can without exhausting time. I am not writing a scientific article. As for Dr.(hon.) Graham, he has just has a baccalaureat from Wheaton College.

 

[Newbie2]

Seriously, though, all Protestants have is preaching. They only have our equivalent of the Liturgy of the Word. They don’t have the Eucharist, the Mass, etc. Luther threw all that out when he split from the Church.

Um…no, he didn’t. Lutherans have the sacrament of the altar. While Catholics don’t consider it a valid sacrament, due to the lack of apostolic succession for Lutheran ministers, Luther certainly didn’t "throw it out.

When Catholics refer to someone being “ordained” we mean that they received the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Since Baptists do not have Apostolic Succession, they cannot received the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

So, while we and the Baptists may use the same word (ordained), it is not the same thing.

Catholics acknowledge two valid Sacraments in the Baptist denomination. Baptism and Matrimony. The others require Apostolic Succession.

Do Baptists consider marriage a sacrament?

1. I reiterate, what kind of idiot do you think I am? Seriously?

LOL You shouldn’t ask those sorts of questions.

 

[HereticalTheist]

LOL You shouldn’t ask those sorts of questions.

excuse me if I tend to take it personally when someone smugly and gleefully insults the blessed memory of my loving grandfather! Despite the fact that he would never have wanted me to become Catholic, he is nevertheless a hero of my faith, and I truly thank God for his example and testimony of God’s love to me the rest of my family! I hope to someday be half the man he was. I forgive Scoobyshme…and Young Thinker…but I will not sit by and let them denigrate the godly service to which my grandfather devoted his life.

 

[Drawmack]

The problem is the whole structure of what many fundamentalist/evangelical churches are based on.
The centerpiece of worship is a pulpit for a man. And if that man and his flock are immature emotionally, it’s inevitable that man-worship occurs.
The priest is not the center of worship in the Catholic Church. When the priest approaches the altar, the Tabernacle is there with the Eucharist. Jesus is the center of worship, The priest is an instrument.
But in fundamentalism/evangelicalism, the pulpit is in the center of the church. Oh yes, they will say 'its God we worship and is taught from the Bible. To even suggest that Communion is the center of worship turns the fundamentalist into a tailspin. Yet it is the ONE worship COMMAND Jesus gave to His Church, not preaching. A good homily or sermon is important, but that is not the centerpiece of worship.
When a pulpit is the center, for a man who gives his ‘interpretation’ of the Bible, its inevitable he is puffed up with pride. He is a little messiah with followers, and he begins to believe he is invincible.
Take that pulpit down, and it must be replaced with something.
I’ve never had a desire to return to that pulpit because I found something greater than a pulpit: the Lord Jesus Christ feeding me with Himself.

Holy Rosary in Scranton PA has the Tabernacle off as far to the left as it can be. The priest sits in the center during Mass right under a statue of the Virgin Mary which has replaced the Crucifix. I guess they are a Protestant church huh?

 

[Drawmack]

Actually if we had the data, it probably wouldn’t convince you. As someone said here … Preaching is a Gift of H.S., and Protestants probably have more pulpit experience perfecting their gift. Protestant Ministers also frequently take their text from Paul, the chief and hardest worker of all the Apostolic Evangelists. However it is beyond dispute that Paul was the best educated and most zealous of the Apostles. For Paul, his superb education and scriptural knowledge was his special advantage, and reason he was selected by Christ for his Apostleship to the Gentiles.

Allow me to summarize your post. “Instead of providing proof I’ll explain why I don’t need proof for my claim.” You are not worth the energy it takes to speak to you.

 

[sambfive]

I have been in both, Catholic and Baptist Churches; unfortunately in the Baptist Church for many years, and Thank God I am back to the Catholic Faith. I have found as others regarding the (Baptist type preaching) on this thread that the focus starts being on the Preacher instead of Christ.

I have seen many different styles in Baptist Pulpits. From crying, beating the pulpit, pacing up and down the ailes and I must say it does get a bit distracting. Not counting the ones on the radio that sound a bit asthmatic; I apologize, but it is true. The best Protestant preachers I have experienced listening to are a lot like our Priests delivery and do seem more of a Christ centered atmosphere. Billy Graham’s later years, he was very simple and methodical, but captivating. Another is Charles Stanley, very methodical, very Christ centered, seemed to be totally Christ centered. They are good preachers and resemble our Priests homilies. I must say the higher the emotion, and crying and beating on the podium the more I didn’t quite trust the preacher’s sincerity and wondered if they inadvertently were leaning for a little drama to get a good response for an altar call. I apologize if that sounds judgemental, but that is what always crossed my mind. I imagine Jesus preaching like our Priests. To the point, methodical and sincere and Centered on His Father. I thank God I am back at Mass where all is sacred, all is Christ centered; not a drama fest! I apologize if I offeneded anyone that wasn’t my intention, just an observation.

 

[HereticalTheist]

I have been in both, Catholic and Baptist Churches; unfortunately in the Baptist Church for many years, and Thank God I am back to the Catholic Faith. I have found as others regarding the (Baptist type preaching) on this thread that the focus starts being on the Preacher instead of Christ.

I have seen many different styles in Baptist Pulpits. From crying, beating the pulpit, pacing up and down the ailes and I must say it does get a bit distracting. Not counting the ones on the radio that sound a bit asthmatic; I apologize, but it is true. The best Protestant preachers I have experienced listening to are a lot like our Priests delivery and do seem more of a Christ centered atmosphere. Billy Graham’s later years, he was very simple and methodical, but captivating. Another is Charles Stanley, very methodical, very Christ centered, seemed to be totally Christ centered. They are good preachers and resemble our Priests homilies. I must say the higher the emotion, and crying and beating on the podium the more I didn’t quite trust the preacher’s sincerity and wondered if they inadvertently were leaning for a little drama to get a good response for an altar call. I apologize if that sounds judgemental, but that is what always crossed my mind. I imagine Jesus preaching like our Priests. To the point, methodical and sincere and Centered on His Father. I thank God I am back at Mass where all is sacred, all is Christ centered; not a drama fest! I apologize if I offeneded anyone that wasn’t my intention, just an observation.

Could Not agree with you more!

 

[bookgirl32]

The problem is the whole structure of what many fundamentalist/evangelical churches are based on.
The centerpiece of worship is a pulpit for a man. And if that man and his flock are immature emotionally, it’s inevitable that man-worship occurs.
The priest is not the center of worship in the Catholic Church. When the priest approaches the altar, the Tabernacle is there with the Eucharist. Jesus is the center of worship, The priest is an instrument.
But in fundamentalism/evangelicalism, the pulpit is in the center of the church. Oh yes, they will say 'its God we worship and is taught from the Bible. To even suggest that Communion is the center of worship turns the fundamentalist into a tailspin. Yet it is the ONE worship COMMAND Jesus gave to His Church, not preaching. A good homily or sermon is important, but that is not the centerpiece of worship.
When a pulpit is the center, for a man who gives his ‘interpretation’ of the Bible, its inevitable he is puffed up with pride. He is a little messiah with followers, and he begins to believe he is invincible.
Take that pulpit down, and it must be replaced with something.
I’ve never had a desire to return to that pulpit because I found something greater than a pulpit: the Lord Jesus Christ feeding me with Himself.

 

[sambfive]

HeriticalTheist,

I am sorry you have had such a difficult night on this thread, Here is my experience. I will say gently to you, about attending the Batptist Churches, the last one I attended was pastored by an uneducated, un-ordained minister, he was the catalyst that made me run hard and fast back to the Catholic Church, and I so thank God for that uneducated dramatic preacher, because He brought me to the most illuminating realization, and that is the Baptist Faith is a good Faith, but the Catholic Faith is the true Church. Hallelujah! Hallelujah! I saw the light, I saw the light, no more darkness! Hello sacraments, Hello Mother Church. Thank you God for this experience, I sincereley mean that.

On the other hand it does sound like your Grandfather was very educated, sincere and a man of God, you are blessed to have had him in your life. My uncle Johnny was an amazing Baptist Preacher, educated and pastored a Church for over 40 years, (same one). He had a booming voice, and a beautiful singing voice. Both my brothers are now Baptist deacons. So, all in all you get a few bad eggs in every faith. Unfortunately some of those eggs sneak in without preparation. ----Thank God for your Grandfather and Billy Graham, and Charles Stanley. I think Charles Stanley is excellent! Too bad he isn’t Catholic! God Bless you and your journey! LOL!

 

[brb3]

Allow me to summarize your post. “Instead of providing proof I’ll explain why I don’t need proof for my claim.” You are not worth the energy it takes to speak to you.

Now thats not nice ! What’s eating you Drawmack … did I offend ?

 

[HereticalTheist]

HeriticalTheist,

I am sorry you have had such a difficult night on this thread, Here is my experience. I will say gently to you, about attending the Batptist Churches, the last one I attended was pastored by an uneducated, un-ordained minister, he was the catalyst that made me run hard and fast back to the Catholic Church, and I so thank God for that uneducated dramatic preacher, because He brought me to the most illuminating realization, and that is the Baptist Faith is a good Faith, but the Catholic Faith is the true Church. Hallelujah! Hallelujah! I saw the light, I saw the light, no more darkness! Hello sacraments, Hello Mother Church. Thank you God for this experience, I sincereley mean that.

On the other hand it does sound like your Grandfather was very educated, sincere and a man of God, you are blessed to have had him in your life. My uncle Johnny was an amazing Baptist Preacher, educated and pastored a Church for over 40 years, (same one). He had a booming voice, and a beautiful singing voice. Both my brothers are now Baptist deacons. So, all in all you get a few bad eggs in every faith. Unfortunately some of those eggs sneak in without preparation. ----Thank God for your Grandfather and Billy Graham, and Charles Stanley. I think Charles Stanley is excellent! Too bad he isn’t Catholic! God Bless you and your journey! LOL!

I’ve known many a Baptist preacher that it was all too easy to find fault with. And many that showed deep love and respect for the Lord. The important thing I think is to keep in mind that sometimes God even uses the bad ones! God is amazing that way…he can use literally anything and anyone at anytime to accomplish his purpose!

I am glad though for the witness of my family members who love the Lord in their own ( sometimes misguided) fashion. I’m sure they have gone to be with the Lord. And i hope one day to join them.

 

[JRKH]

The problem is the whole structure of what many fundamentalist/evangelical churches are based on.
The centerpiece of worship is a pulpit for a man. And if that man and his flock are immature emotionally, it’s inevitable that man-worship occurs.
The priest is not the center of worship in the Catholic Church. When the priest approaches the altar, the Tabernacle is there with the Eucharist. Jesus is the center of worship, The priest is an instrument.
But in fundamentalism/evangelicalism, the pulpit is in the center of the church. Oh yes, they will say 'its God we worship and is taught from the Bible. To even suggest that Communion is the center of worship turns the fundamentalist into a tailspin. Yet it is the ONE worship COMMAND Jesus gave to His Church, not preaching. A good homily or sermon is important, but that is not the centerpiece of worship.
When a pulpit is the center, for a man who gives his ‘interpretation’ of the Bible, its inevitable he is puffed up with pride. He is a little messiah with followers, and he begins to believe he is invincible.
Take that pulpit down, and it must be replaced with something.
I’ve never had a desire to return to that pulpit because I found something greater than a pulpit: the Lord Jesus Christ feeding me with Himself.

With all the bickering going on back and forth, it’s nice to hear something direct from a former pastor.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Baptist preachers are ordained, There are ordaination councels in the Baptist faith. Many protestant Pastors have four years of collage plus seminary. And many have doctorites.

Or I could simply get an “ordination” through the mail.

I think this is one thing that is being overlooked. As with most other discussions that talk about “Protestants”, there is a wide range and can cover groups that are relatively organized like the Anglicans or Lutherens to groups that atre really not organized at all - the nondenominationals etc.
Some groups I am sure require more education than others.

It is very difficult to make many generalizations.

Peace
James

 

[brb3]

My uncle Johnny was an amazing Baptist Preacher, educated and pastored a Church for over 40 years, (same one). He had a booming voice, and a beautiful singing voice. Both my brothers are now Baptist deacons.

----Thank God for your Grandfather and Billy Graham, and Charles Stanley. I think Charles Stanley is excellent! Too bad he isn’t Catholic! God Bless you and your journey!

Good observations ! The prominent ones mentioned above are Southern Baptists. Can also list Chuck Swindoll in the honorable mentions.

IMO, the Evangelical Southern Baptists are closest to the Catholic persuasion than many of the others. Concentrate your apologetics on them, they can be brought into the Catholic Church. Its never easy, but if its in the Bible, they will accept it. They have a love for Catholics, and others of faith … and are not out to destroy those who don’t agree with them. In otherwords, they aren’t the Jack Chick ones. They are receiving God’s grace … and will follow the spirit’s lead. If you can show them the Eucharist is the LIVING CHRIST, and Peter was LEADER of the Apostles … they will start coming to Mass.

Also, same goes for the Pentecostals …

 

[JustaServant]

With all the bickering going on back and forth, it’s nice to hear something direct from a former pastor.

Peace
James

I talked to a relative over the Easter weekend who is a lapsed Catholic. They said they didn’t need to go the Mass on Sunday because ‘I can pray at home’.
That lack of understanding about the Eucharist is the common denominator among lapsed Catholics and those Catholics attracted to the smoke and mirrors of the evangelical world…
When the Eucharist is removed from a Christian’s life, they are forever trying to find something to replace it with.
Some (like me) try Bible study. But no amount of knowledge, memorization, or meditation on the Sacred Scriptures can give me what the Eucharist gives me. Some try music. Emotional music can make my toe tap or bring me to tears. But as good as music is, it can never give me what can give me what the Eucharist gives me. Others, look for ‘miracles and manifestations’. They at least know there is something more, an encounter with the Divine. But there is no greater miracle or manifestation greater than that which is found in the Eucharist.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Holy Rosary in Scranton PA has the Tabernacle off as far to the left as it can be. The priest sits in the center during Mass right under a statue of the Virgin Mary which has replaced the Crucifix. I guess they are a Protestant church huh?

Not with Mary front and center it ain’t.

 

[JRKH]

I talked to a relative over the Easter weekend who is a lapsed Catholic. They said they didn’t need to go the Mass on Sunday because ‘I can pray at home’.

Did you ask him if he does pray at home on Sunday mornings?
I suspect that many a non-catholic falls into this trap as well. (I know I did) The idea that we don’t need that feeding on God’s word, in community; that we don’t need the discipline that goes along with getting out of bed and going to church as the first thing we do with our week and thus demonstrate to God that we Love Him first and foremost.
Missing Church is often the first step toward blurring sin, relaxing morals and losing faith.

That lack of understanding about the Eucharist is the common denominator among lapsed Catholics and those Catholics attracted to the smoke and mirrors of the evangelical world…
When the Eucharist is removed from a Christian’s life, they are forever trying to find something to replace it with.
Some (like me) try Bible study. But no amount of knowledge, memorization, or meditation on the Sacred Scriptures can give me what the Eucharist gives me. Some try music. Emotional music can make my toe tap or bring me to tears. But as good as music is, it can never give me what can give me what the Eucharist gives me. Others, look for ‘miracles and manifestations’. They at least know there is something more, an encounter with the Divine. But there is no greater miracle or manifestation greater than that which is found in the Eucharist.

Amen - Amen my friend.

Peace
James