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godisgood77
Guest
If you think someone saying that you can’t say Merry Christmas infringes in your rights, then I can’t help you.
Perhaps you’ve never been any place where there is actual oppression?
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Perhaps you’ve never been any place where there is actual oppression?
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Welshrabbit
Guest
Depending on the circumstances, that could literally be a violation of the First Amendment.If you think someone saying that you can’t say Merry Christmas infringes in your rights, then I can’t help you.
Also, why are you dodging my question about the possibility that you are considering voting for Biden?
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annem
Guest
Are you accusing the Catholic World Report of lying??Begging you to provide facts actually.
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annem
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The Little Lady:
If you won’t listen to the Catholic WOrld Report, what about the National Catholic Register:
If you won’t listen to the Catholic WOrld Report, what about the National Catholic Register:
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VonDerTann
Guest
godis, you are deliberately choosing to focus on one aspect of oppression (“merry Christmas”); and repeating “that’s not oppressive.”
However, the general trend - including by a host of other examples I’ve given that you’re deliberately ignoring - is for Democrats - whether pols; entertainers; or the media – to infringe on Christians and on Christianity in the USA.
The governor of NY (a democrat, of course) was just ruled by a federal court to have wrongly curtailed religious worship in the wake of the Wuhan Flu; the plaintiffs included 2 catholic priests.
So, again, if you want to focus only on your ability to say “Merry Christmas,” I can’t stop you, but it’s really, really intellectually dishonest to do so while ignoring what else is going on in democrat-controlled states and cities.
However, the general trend - including by a host of other examples I’ve given that you’re deliberately ignoring - is for Democrats - whether pols; entertainers; or the media – to infringe on Christians and on Christianity in the USA.
The governor of NY (a democrat, of course) was just ruled by a federal court to have wrongly curtailed religious worship in the wake of the Wuhan Flu; the plaintiffs included 2 catholic priests.
So, again, if you want to focus only on your ability to say “Merry Christmas,” I can’t stop you, but it’s really, really intellectually dishonest to do so while ignoring what else is going on in democrat-controlled states and cities.
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farronwolf
New member
On private property, the owner can limit your speech without violating your 1A rights.Depending on the circumstances, that could literally be a violation of the First Amendment.
Can the Church not stop someone from entering and saying people should pray to satan?
One might read the 1A: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Notice it is talking about what Congress and the Gov. may not do, not what private citizens may do or not do on their property.
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godisgood77
Guest
I was focusing on that one because of how absurd it is to claim that.godis, you are deliberately choosing to focus on one aspect of oppression (“merry Christmas”); and repeating “that’s not oppressive.”
Relative to the Coronavirus lockdowns, I do not see that as a political issue or a religious liberty issue. Instead, I see it as a health and safety issue. I’ll stick with medical experts (and the vast majority of priests, bishops) and stay home.
I stand by my position. My religious rights as a Catholic have not been violated.
I support the nuns in their contraception case… I think they won, correct?
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Welshrabbit
Guest
Never said anything to the contrary, only that under the right circumstances, someone telling you you can’t say the words “Merry Christmas”
could be a violation of the First Amendment.
could be a violation of the First Amendment.
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VonDerTann
Guest
I pointed out that you were over-focused on your ability to say “Merry Christmas.”
Your response was continue to lead with that issue.
You are not really helping yourself.
If you want to excuse the actions of the (democrat) governor of NY, who was just upbraided by the federal courts for wrongly impeding religious services, again, I can’t stop you. But it’s getting harder and harder to deny the overall trend of Democrats’ impeding Christianity and Christians - in fact it got harder this past week, in light of the federal court reaching the conclusion that the governor of NY did precisely that.
It’s dems siding with protesters pulling down statutes of Catholics…or wrongly impeding religion in the covid response…or the PC crowd at Christmas. My point is this: With the Democrats, their hostility to Christianity is EVERYWHERE.
Want to not see it? Say my points are absurd? Fine. It’s still a semi-free country…at least in the Republican controlled areas.
Your response was continue to lead with that issue.
You are not really helping yourself.
If you want to excuse the actions of the (democrat) governor of NY, who was just upbraided by the federal courts for wrongly impeding religious services, again, I can’t stop you. But it’s getting harder and harder to deny the overall trend of Democrats’ impeding Christianity and Christians - in fact it got harder this past week, in light of the federal court reaching the conclusion that the governor of NY did precisely that.
It’s dems siding with protesters pulling down statutes of Catholics…or wrongly impeding religion in the covid response…or the PC crowd at Christmas. My point is this: With the Democrats, their hostility to Christianity is EVERYWHERE.
Want to not see it? Say my points are absurd? Fine. It’s still a semi-free country…at least in the Republican controlled areas.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Welsh, you are 100% correct.
The fact that you can easily buy on Amazon a sweater with a devil’s head on it that says “Merry Unchristmas, Satan Claus” shows you just how far our culture has fallen.
The fact that you can easily buy on Amazon a sweater with a devil’s head on it that says “Merry Unchristmas, Satan Claus” shows you just how far our culture has fallen.
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godisgood77
Guest
VonDer… I could have picked on this one too, I chose the Christmas one because that seemed the most outlandish statement to me.It infringes on my rights any and every time Christianity is held up for mockery; or I’m told “shhh! don’t offend the gays/PC crowd.”
It is not infringing in your rights if someone holds up Christianity for mockery or if someone shhh’s you. What right do you think is being infringed?
Are we to believe that every time someone disagrees with you out loud, that is somehow impeding your rights?
America allows and encourages diversity of opinion. What would you have done? Tell that merchant they can’t say that? I completely disagree with the message in that Amazon example, but will defend the right to sell it all day…The fact that you can easily buy on Amazon a sweater with a devil’s head on it that says “Merry Unchristmas, Satan Claus” shows you just how far our culture has fallen.
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VonDerTann
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–Actually, it most certainly does infringe on my rights: When it’s done continually; from all sides; and where the intent is to silence me – which is precisely what is going on, and where it has been increasing in anger & vitriol.It is not infringing in your rights if someone holds up Christianity for mockery or if someone shhh’s you.
It used to be just “stop saying Merry Christmas!” We’ve witnessed this turn into pulling down satutes of Catholic saints - and now to cries to “destroy images of Jesus as a white man and his white mother too.”
25 years ago it was unthinkable to sell a sweater glorifying Satan - now, refusing to bake a cake dedicated to Satan will get you sued. Where do you think this will lead? Only the wilfully blind would not see this as anti-Christian oppression.
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Elizabeth3
Guest
I’m not sure that it’s all that defensible to sell merchandise that mocks another’s religion as a "right.’ Do we have a right to buy and sell merchadise to mock Jews or homosexuals? Should we? It’s one thing to wear something to promote your own religion but another to mock someone else’s. We have liberty in order to do good not license to do harm. I have to disagree with you on this one.America allows and encourages diversity of opinion. What would you have done? Tell that merchant they can’t say that? I completely disagree with the message in that Amazon example, but will defend the right to sell it all day…
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buffalo
Guest
Totally disagree. He is the guy stopping the march to socialism.His only real positive lasting legacy will be his SCOTUS appointees. Otherwise his presidency has been an utter failure in every way conceivable.
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buffalo
Guest
It would never make it though SCOTUS. They were pretty much pro-aborts. We have a chance with Pres Trump to end it. That alone may put him on Mt Rushmore.Why isn’t abortion illegal yet? That’s about 30 years.
Why?
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godisgood77
Guest
Hi Elizabeth,I’m not sure that it’s all that defensible to sell merchandise that mocks another’s religion as a "right.’ Do we have a right to buy and sell merchadise to mock Jews or homosexuals? Should we? It’s one thing to wear something to promote your own religion but another to mock someone else’s. We have liberty in order to do good not license to do harm. I have to disagree with you on this one.
Here is an interesting read … The Problem With Making Hate Speech Illegal – Foreign Policy
The point I would make is that a neo nazi solute is allowed in the US and so is an anti-Christmas shirt. Free speech is protected by the constitution and I think it should remain so… even if I firmly disagree with things people say, I would defend their right to say it.
Btw -do a quick google search for anti gay or anti Jewish merchandise and you’ll find plenty… like this one… https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop/de...64750204?sellable=DRk03mp02RU23e7X92zO-1263-7
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godisgood77
Guest
Let’s play this through… which of your rights is being infringed on in this scenario? What repercussions are there if someone mocks Christianity or if you say merry Christmas to someone who doesn’t want to hear it?Actually, it most certainly does infringe on my rights:
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VonDerTann
Guest
First, I reject the rules of your game, because it assumes (wrongly) that this event happens in a vacuum. In fact, all the incidents I posit are happening all around us.
But just for grins and giggles, I say “merry christmas” to the wrong person and any of the following things can occur:
–They say, “I don’t like Christians and I don’t do business with them,” and they order me out of their store; or
–They say, “I don’t like that white religion - you’re a racist!” or
–They say “Christians are such a****es!” or
–They say, “it’s aggressive for you to say that, you’re harassing me, I’m calling the police.”
In fact, the universe of options is open if I say it to the wrong person.
Are any of these responses likely? Not today. But nor was it likely that some poor baker would get sued and essentially get put out of business for not making a cake glorifying Satan yet precisely that result occurred.
Are there reprecussions for someone who mocks Christianity? NO, there are not. It’s the most socially-accepted bias in the US today.
Now, since I was in fact willing to go along, please do the same for me: Do you think a public figure calling for destruction of “images of a white Jesus” “and His white mother” might lead to churches vandalized or desecrated? Stained glass windows broken? Statutes ofJesus pulled down? Because those statements have been made.
But just for grins and giggles, I say “merry christmas” to the wrong person and any of the following things can occur:
–They say, “I don’t like Christians and I don’t do business with them,” and they order me out of their store; or
–They say, “I don’t like that white religion - you’re a racist!” or
–They say “Christians are such a****es!” or
–They say, “it’s aggressive for you to say that, you’re harassing me, I’m calling the police.”
In fact, the universe of options is open if I say it to the wrong person.
Are any of these responses likely? Not today. But nor was it likely that some poor baker would get sued and essentially get put out of business for not making a cake glorifying Satan yet precisely that result occurred.
Are there reprecussions for someone who mocks Christianity? NO, there are not. It’s the most socially-accepted bias in the US today.
Now, since I was in fact willing to go along, please do the same for me: Do you think a public figure calling for destruction of “images of a white Jesus” “and His white mother” might lead to churches vandalized or desecrated? Stained glass windows broken? Statutes ofJesus pulled down? Because those statements have been made.
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godisgood77
Guest
I don’t think any of that infringes on your rights.But just for grins and giggles, I say “merry christmas” to the wrong person and any of the following things can occur:
–They say, “I don’t like Christians and I don’t do business with them,” and they order me out of their store; or
–They say, “I don’t like that white religion - you’re a racist!” or
–They say “Christians are such a****es!” or
–They say, “it’s aggressive for you to say that, you’re harassing me, I’m calling the police.”
Sure… I’ll play. First this scenario is quite different than the private citizen scenario we were talking about. So that changes the situation a bit. If a public figure uses their office and calls for people to commit a crime, then they should be held accountable - that is against the law and tantamount to yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre.Do you think a public figure calling for destruction of “images of a white Jesus” “and His white mother” might lead to churches vandalized or desecrated? Stained glass windows broken? Statutes ofJesus pulled down? Because those statements have been made.
Similar to all of the times President Trump incited violence… All the Times Trump Has Called for Violence at His Rallies - YouTube
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VonDerTann
Guest
Sorry, a “public figure” need not be a “public official.” Robert De Niro is a public figure. So is Shaun King, who advocated tearing down Jesus’ images. King is certainly someone who gets heard: He has 1.2 million twitter followers.
Please don’t change the subject by wanting to talk about Trump: Stick on topic, please, as I did with you. Don’t you think Shaun King oppresses Christianity when he calls for the actions he calls for?
Please don’t change the subject by wanting to talk about Trump: Stick on topic, please, as I did with you. Don’t you think Shaun King oppresses Christianity when he calls for the actions he calls for?
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