Why do anti-abortion signs

[bear06]

They know when I want something done now and not to ask question, they know by the tone of my voice not by the volume.

Well then, at this point I’d have to ask you why you didn’t just tell them to put their hands over their eyes and not look out the windows?

Honestly I don’t think I need to freak my kids out just to save their lives. I would stay clam as much as possible and would stay strong. Honestly, that’s just the type of person I am…

I don’t think this tactic would apply for many situations. It’s just not realistic. Sorry! I can think of at least 3 situations in my childrens’ lives where if I didn’t yell and get their attention suddenly and snap them into obedience, they’d be dead or hurt.

 

[marcsababa]

So it comes down to parenting styles? And as Mommygreen made ever so clear her choice in parenting was taken away. Unfortunate, but it will happen again and again.

I am surprised that you convinced your child to watch Charlie and the … If you follow the logic you are proposing in removing the posters you should have turned the movie off and written a letter to the raters of the movie that they neglected to rate it for disturbing scenes. By the way my daughter cannot handle scenes like that either. SHe turns into a nervous wreck and convers her face,whimpers and yelps. My other, younger, children are all fine with movies, but my 6 yo dd is sensitive.

I bet that the more kids a person has the less likely they are to be upset about these images. They just learn that kids are resilient. They survive us as their parents!!! I only have four but I see a learning curve.

But I will not stand for those images being taken away until abortions are not happening anymore legally at least.

I still wonder though if we should have more gory crucifixes?

 

[Mommyof02green]

Well I guess lucky for me, that I haven’t been put into situations where it was a matter of life or death for my kids…

As for telling them to cover their eyes while in the car… well that DID NOT come into mind. I guess I was hoping that my kids would not look that way. I was hoping that they wouldn’t see… I DID NOT want to draw attention to it… Telling them to cover their eyes would NOT of been normal, and they would of wonder what was up… I was trying to avoid all that. However, now that it has been suggested, maybe I’ll do that if there is ever a next time…

As for the movie: We preview the movie, we read the reviews. We thought it would be “okay”. We did not fore see our daughter freaking out. The squirrels did not hurt the girl and the other girl blowing-up as a blueberry did not seem it would be a problem.

Our kids were enjoying the movie, and they wanted to see more, just NOT those parts. We where honest with the kids and told them that once those parts are over, then they won’t come back on…it’s just that one time. We told the kids we can fast-forward pass those parts so they were done or we can turn the movie off and put a new one in. They said fast-forward…so that’s what we did.

They have asked to see the movie several times after that; Every time they ask to watch we ask about those scenes. They just tell you can fast-forward those parts. They know when it will happen. So right before the problem scene they say: Stop the movie, stop the movie. We stop the movie and they say fast-forward please. While we fast-forward they are looking away, once the scene is done, we hit the play button the kids hear the movie playing so they know that it’s okay to watch… When it comes to entertainment and movies, we do NOT make them watch things they do not want to watch. We either read reviews or preview the movies before letting them watch. Of course they only get the options that we say that can have… but we don’t make them watch the choices we give them. I don’t believe someone has to watch the “whole” movie to enjoy it!

Example: This weekend (Today) is opening day for the Nativity Story. It is a movie that we really want to go see!!! However, I know that we will wait until it comes out on DVD. This is because we read the reviews and there are some violent images: So it can be hard for the sensitive viewer. Even though it has some violent images it still got an A-I rating. (General) and a rating saying Kids and up
catholicnews.com/data/movies/06mv217.htm decentfilms.com/sections/reviews/nativitystory.html

Because we are not sure what the images are we can’t spend money at the movie theaters for it However at home we can preview the movie and fast-forward pass the part or parts that can be a problem! So the movie the Nativity Story will be something this family is going to have to wait and see Advent of 2007. Although Hubby and I may have a date night:dancing: and go see the movie this year, while the kids stay home with Grandma.

 

[marcsababa]

Mommy Green, I may not have been clear. What I was trying to show you with my comment about having the kids watching the movie even though your dd was frightened about the scenes was the following:

Just as you showed your dd that she can in fact get over the “bad scenes” to enjoy the movie. You can also help her get over the “bad scenes” of abortion to become a zealous anti abortion person.

If you meet her cries and fears with the idea that she can and will get over her fears instead of wondering fearfully if she will get over them that the whole experience will be a better one and you can stop protesting the protestors.

I think that the issue is more of how YOU should deal with it and not how anti-abortion campaigners should campaign.

When I walk into a cold room I put on a sweater I do not insist on having the heat turned up if everybody else seems to be happy. What do you do?

I do not agree that the majority of people who are against abortion are against the abortion signs. I have been polling many people and have received a majority of “for” votes.There are different types of personalities with their individual quirks and blessings. I encourage you to see how YOU can respond better to the posters.

You seem to be the sort of person who has many strengths in areas where I am weak. I respect you for how you are. But as a fellow catholic I encourage you to look and see how you may change. I am still mulling over your suggestion that I at times remove other’s choice to choose something that is not wrong just different from my way. I am still keeping that in my heart and I thank you.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Mommy Green, I may not have been clear. What I was trying to show you with my comment about having the kids watching the movie even though your dd was frightened about the scenes was the following:

Just as you showed your dd that she can in fact get over the “bad scenes” to enjoy the movie. You can also help her get over the “bad scenes” of abortion to become a zealous anti abortion person.

She gets over the bad scene by NOT watching them, NOT seeing them, and NOT dealing with them! Both kids do NOT have to watch, see, or talk about the things they don’t want too.

If you meet her cries and fears with the idea that she can and will get over her fears instead of wondering fearfully if she will get over them that the whole experience will be a better one and you can stop protesting the protestors.

We do, those things. We are working on her fears and trying to help her over come them. However, it’s not just simply saying you do not need to be afraid. She needs to feel safe. People that have phobias understand what I mean here…. You can’t just over come something just because someone said too, you have to work at it and you have to be willing to over come it.

Also, I don’t think what they are doing is WRONG! I NEVER said that people should NOT protest! I just have been question the METHOD!

I think that the issue is more of how YOU should deal with it and not how anti-abortion campaigners should campaign.

I think it’s a combo of the 2.

 

[Mommyof02green]

You seem to be the sort of person who has many strengths in areas where I am weak. I respect you for how you are. But as a fellow catholic I encourage you to look and see how you may change.

I do! I have a prayer that is every close to my heart and say any time I need it. Especially when I’m angry, upset, or discourage (which can happen most everyday):

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.

I know that I can’t change what protester do or the methods THEY choose to use. However, I can raise awareness that it’s my opinion that this may not be the best way. What people do with that opinion is up to God and them. Just like I can’t change what scares my kids and does not scare my kids. However, I can be there for them and always give them the love and support they need and help them get over that fear when THEY are ready to do so. They have to be ready to face the fear, before they can over come it! I can’t make them face it sooner; it has to be when they are ready.

I am still mulling over your suggestion that I at times remove other’s choice to choose something that is not wrong just different from my way. I am still keeping that in my heart and I thank you.

Well that’s bottom line how I feel about what happen that day with those protester… it is just different from MY way, and my choice to expose or not expose my kids was taken away.

We were leaving the HOSPTIAL. We just got done VISITING with someone that was in the hospital. I didn’t take my kids down pass the abortion clinic I took them to visit a relative in the hospital.

We parked near the main exit: I DID NOT SEE or HEAR the protester before getting in my car.
I was in line wait to EXIT the Parking lot, when I saw the protesters. I looked in the rearview mirror and saw a car behind me: So I couldn’t back out, besides if I could back out I’m not sure if there would have been another way out of the parking lot. The Hospital we were at has a series of parking lots, many of them only have one way in and out. So this was the only way home! I had to drive pass them it was my only option.

Before moving up closer to the protesters, I turn on the car radio hoping that I could get the kid interested in a song (to drown out the noise from outside). The protester happen to be on the passenger side, so I was also hoping that if I could get the kids to talk to me about what song they wanted on they would not look that way. It would of worked, but I got stuck at the light!

So I had to sit there, the light just turn green and when it did I went to go and it was at that moment that my kids realized what was going on outside. I almost made it, but I didn’t! I got stuck!

Now I’m dealing with things that I feel that I should not be dealing with: I can’t change that! I know I can’t change what I’m dealing with, so I have been asking for serenity to deal with it. However, asking for serenity to deal with it and accept it, does not mean I can’t question WHY it happen, or question is this something that CAN be CHANGED so others don’t have to go through this? Is there a BETTER METHOD? A Method that can get the info and truth out there in away that would be better for EVERYONE; Is there?

In the mean time: I think I’ll just take Bear’s advice and have my kids cover up their eyes if we happen to drive past another protest! Hopefully it will NOT be any time soon!!!

God Bless, and thanks to everyone that has posted here!

 

[bear06]

I know that I can’t change what protester do or the methods THEY choose to use. However, I can raise awareness that it’s my opinion that this may not be the best way

The only reason people use those signs is that it has been proven to be one of the best ways, if not the best way, at a time when the mother is going in for an abortion.

What people do with that opinion is up to God and them. Just like I can’t change what scares my kids and does not scare my kids. However, I can be there for them and always give them the love and support they need and help them get over that fear when THEY are ready to do so. They have to be ready to face the fear, before they can over come it! I can’t make them face it sooner; it has to be when they are ready. Well that’s bottom line how I feel about what happen that day with those protester… it is just different from MY way, and my choice to expose or not expose my kids was taken away.

And something that very may well have been God’s way isn’t always our way. Those signs make me very uncomfortable but I believe that God wants us to save as many babies as possible.

We were leaving the HOSPTIAL. We just got done VISITING with someone that was in the hospital. I didn’t take my kids down pass the abortion clinic I took them to visit a relative in the hospital.

The fact that abortions are done in a hospital doesn’t make the babies any less dead. I can’t see focusing on the fact that it was a hospital and not a clinic. Abortion kills a baby anywhere it happens.

Now I’m dealing with things that I feel that I should not be dealing with: I can’t change that! I know I can’t change what I’m dealing with, so I have been asking for serenity to deal with it. However, asking for serenity to deal with it and accept it, does not mean I can’t question WHY it happen, or question is this something that CAN be CHANGED so others don’t have to go through this? Is there a BETTER METHOD? A Method that can get the info and truth out there in away that would be better for EVERYONE; Is there?

It’s a cross to carry. That’s for sure. I don’t think there is a better method but I’m open to suggestions and I think it’s fine to quetsion the whole situation. I’ve never had a problem with that. I only have a problem with people saying that it must be wrong to do this if children can run across it. I have a problem with people saying it’s an evil act. Like I said, maybe God is calling you to come up with a different way of doing things. I certainly don’t discount this. I do feel, however, that the Holy Spirit has inspired those who use the signs such as Fr. Pavone. I know that we have different opinions on this. I don’t condemn anyone that doesn’t want to even go to the clinic. We’re all called to different ways of fighting this issue.

 

[boppaid]

And something that very may well have been God’s way isn’t always our way. Those signs make me very uncomfortable but I believe that God wants us to save as many babies as possible.

Not to be disrespectful, but maybe there’s a reason that those signs make you uncomfortable. Maybe it is NOT God’s way. God gave us consciences and gut feelings for a reason, and we shouldn’t always ignore them.

It’s a cross to carry. That’s for sure. I don’t think there is a better method but I’m open to suggestions and I think it’s fine to quetsion the whole situation.

Prayer is the best method because nothing is impossible with God. Also, voting in ways to better our economy, because the fewer abortions are happen when the economy is the best.

I’ve never had a problem with that. I only have a problem with people saying that it must be wrong to do this if children can run across it. I have a problem with people saying it’s an evil act.

I’m sorry you have a problem with that. I really am. But I have a real problem with anyone who shows disturbing pictures to my children, no matter the reason. I guess we just won’t agree on this one.

I do feel, however, that the Holy Spirit has inspired those who use the signs such as Fr. Pavone. I know that we have different opinions on this./

Yeah, we’ll definately have to agree to disagree on this. I am 99.999% certain it is not the holy spirit doing this. Of course this is only my opinion, so please don’t ask for proof.

 

[boppaid]

I mean to say we can’t go around accusing others of evil actions without proof. You may not like the possible effects to your children but that does not mean you may call another’s actions evil without providing proof.

I think we can accuse others of evil without proof. WOuld you have a problem accusing a child molester of being evil ? What if he says to you “It’s not evil! Proove to me that it is!” Now, OF COURSE i"m not saying child molestation is anywhere near the same level as showing children disturbing images, but I’m using a drastic example to show you how it is absolutely possible to declare something as evil with requiring “proof”. It’s evil because it is.

Because you are placing a burden on folks with no legitimate proof they are wrong. That some kids are “hurt” does not axiomatically mean that others are guilty.

These folks place a burden on my children. I want these people to feel the tinge of guilt, because I think it is morally wrong to do this to our children. Maybe the guilt will stop them. I know they themselves aren’t evil, but I believe with all my heart that they are morally wrong.

That others may get “hurt” unintentionally does not mean the fight they are pursuing is done in an evil way.

If they know that innocent children are walking by and can see the photos, it is not unintentional. Especially people on this thread, as people are TELLING them that their children have been hurt by this.

You want to make it a simple equation as in saying my kids saw a photo some folks were carrying. They got scared therefore those folks committed an evil act. It is not that simple.

No, I’m saying someone showed my kids evil, gross, disturbing photographs on purpose. I would say this for pornography too. WOuldn’t you guys?

I do not think you are a jerk. I have small children. I worry over them. I protect them. I respect your view. I am trying to parse the topic out so that I can approach it with wisdom and logic and not simply act on my emotions which may or may not be correct.

Thank you. And thanks for debating this so nicely! It’s a passionate subject no doubt. I hope you never mistake my bluntness for rudeness or hate.

See my point?

 

[bear06]

Not to be disrespectful, but maybe there’s a reason that those signs make you uncomfortable. Maybe it is NOT God’s way. God gave us consciences and gut feelings for a reason, and we shouldn’t always ignore them.

My gut feeling is to use the signs. They make me uncomfortable because they are tragic.

Prayer is the best method because nothing is impossible with God. Also, voting in ways to better our economy, because the fewer abortions are happen when the economy is the best.

Prayer alone is not always what God calls us to do. If so, we wouldn’t have Joan of Arc and the many other saints that took many other tactics. Speaking of Joan of Arc, she was less than comfortable wearing men’s clothing but she did so because that’s what her voices told her to do.

I’m sorry you have a problem with that. I really am. But I have a real problem with anyone who shows disturbing pictures to my children, no matter the reason. I guess we just won’t agree on this one.

Agreed! I’m willing to make the sacrifice to save the life of another.

Yeah, we’ll definately have to agree to disagree on this. I am 99.999% certain it is not the holy spirit doing this. Of course this is only my opinion, so please don’t ask for proof.

Yes, like I said, we probably won’t ever agree.

 

[bear06]

I think we can accuse others of evil without proof. WOuld you have a problem accusing a child molester of being evil ? What if he says to you “It’s not evil! Proove to me that it is!” Now, OF COURSE i"m not saying child molestation is anywhere near the same level as showing children disturbing images, but I’m using a drastic example to show you how it is absolutely possible to declare something as evil with requiring “proof”. It’s evil because it is.

I do have a HUGE problem with accusing Fr. Pavone and other good, holy priests of committing an evil without proof. It is your opinion which doesn’t necessarily equal truth.

These folks place a burden on my children. I want these people to feel the tinge of guilt, because I think it is morally wrong to do this to our children. Maybe the guilt will stop them. I know they themselves

 

[Mommyof02green]

The fact that abortions are done in a hospital doesn’t make the babies any less dead. I can’t see focusing on the fact that it was a hospital and not a clinic. Abortion kills a baby anywhere it happens.

Does EVERY HOSIPTAL do abortions???

Are there HOSIPTALS that DO NOT have abortions???

 

[boppaid]

I do have a HUGE problem with accusing Fr. Pavone and other good, holy priests of committing an evil without proof. It is your opinion which doesn’t necessarily equal truth.

I’m sorry. I truly do not mean to upset you. But when I see something that’s evil, I tend to call it as I see it, no matter who is perpretrating it. Priests do evil things. Look at the child molesting priests. They are human, and they can do bad things.

I don’t think that anyone here is doubting that children can be hurt by this. That doesn’t equal death. This hurt can be overcome. Death cannot.

So you are saying, in a nutshell that the ends justifies the means. That is, the “ends” (possibly preventing an abortion) justifies the “means” (possibly psychologically harming children), correct?

I was always taught that the CC believes that the ends NEVER justifies the means. If someone hurts someone, that can never be good. A life can possibly be saved by using embryotic stem cells. A life is NOT ended to give us these cells, it would be ended by being thrown in the garbage. Still, even though it was put to good use before being thrown away, the ends doesn’t justify the means. (At least that’s what I was taught.) I don’t understand why this isn’t the same thing. I really truly don’t. To me, showing children these images is even MORE horrific than putting stem cells to good use before society throws them in the garbage.

Like I said, the hurt caused by these pictures compared to the hurt cause by our society by the sin of abortion.

We’re going in circles here. Because no matter how much GOOD is done with these pictures, the ends doesn’t justify the means, imo.

We aren’t saying “Here honey look at this”. It is a problem that can be easily prevented if one plans ahead.

Those words aren’t being used, but nothing is being done by the protesters to ensure this doesn’t happen. Further, It cannot be easily prevented as I have to drive by hospitals, Planned Parenthood and the like every day.

 

[boppaid]

My gut feeling is to use the signs. They make me uncomfortable because they are tragic.

Prayer alone is not always what God calls us to do. If so, we wouldn’t have Joan of Arc and the many other saints that took many other tactics. Speaking of Joan of Arc, she was less than comfortable wearing men’s clothing but she did so because that’s what her voices told her to do.

Fair enough. However, I will NEVER believe God intends little innocent children to see those pictures…even as a consequence.

Agreed! I’m willing to make the sacrifice to save the life of another.

And I will never sacrifice the innocence of any child to POSSIBLY save another.

Yes, like I said, we probably won’t ever agree.

I am enjoying our discussion, though, so thanks.

 

[marcsababa]

I just met a CBER worker at a party and mentioned our discussion to him. He would never yell “you are going to hell.” I do not believe anybody who is involved with CBER or anything FR. Pavone supports, would yell something like that. That is fear mongering. I don’t think protesers should be yelling at all, silence is much more effective with the rosary said quietly.

Anyways my CBER aquaintance mentioned how Our Lady, Our most loving Mother found it prudent to show the children at Fatima what hell is like. She did this and told them that they had to pray for souls so they wouldn’t go to hell. Those children were shown something horrifying to fuel their zeal to get to heaven and their zeal for souls.

I thought that was a good example in support of the idea to use the signs.

I wonder though if the signs that MommyGreen saw were held by people who were overly angry in a way that wasn’t righteous. Perhaps that is a lesson for all prolifers.

MommyGreen could you find out who the group in front of your hospital was and write them a letter explaining that the protesters were yelling and it made you, a pro-lifer, completely miss the message of the pictures. I guess you could say you didn’t like the pictures as well. But for me the yelling is a bigger issue.

 

[Mommyof02green]

MommyGreen **could you find out who the group in front of your hospital ** was and write them a letter explaining that the protesters were yelling and it made you, a pro-lifer, completely miss the message of the pictures. I guess you could say you didn’t like the pictures as well. But for me the yelling is a bigger issue.

I have NO clue where I would find that info at…

Where would I find that that info?
Any ideas?

 

[Mommyof02green]

Anyways my CBER aquaintance mentioned how Our Lady, Our most loving Mother found it prudent to show the children at Fatima what hell is like. She did this and told them that they had to pray for souls so they wouldn’t go to hell. Those children were shown something horrifying to fuel their zeal to get to heaven and their zeal for souls.

And I’m sure that OUR Lady, knew that that fatima children could handle something like that…

Every child is different! Some children can handle something like that and for others it can upset them and tear them apart…

I thought that was a good example in support of the idea to use the signs.

Are the people in HELL “cut-up”, “dead” and “bloody”…

 

[bear06]

I’m sorry. I truly do not mean to upset you. But when I see something that’s evil, I tend to call it as I see it, no matter who is perpretrating it.

And the key here are the words “I see”. Our Faith is not based on what you see and having seen some of your other posts, it would seem that things are only evil when you see them evil.

Priests do evil things. Look at the child molesting priests. They are human, and they can do bad things.

Are you really comparing Fr. Pavone to child molesters as an argument?!

So you are saying, in a nutshell that the ends justifies the means. That is, the “ends” (possibly preventing an abortion) justifies the “means” (possibly psychologically harming children), correct?

We’ve been over this in previous threads.

I was always taught that the CC believes that the ends NEVER justifies the means

.
You might want to read again. Can you quote a Church teaching to support your argument? Let’s take just the first thing off the top of my head. Permanent abstinence in marriage is not right unless the life of one of the spouses depended on it. At that point, the act of permanent abstinence (and chastity of course) becomes a sacrificial and beautiful act.

If someone hurts someone, that can never be good. A life can possibly be saved by using embryotic stem cells. A life is NOT ended to give us these cells, it would be ended by being thrown in the garbage. Still, even though it was put to good use before being thrown away, the ends doesn’t justify the means. (At least that’s what I was taught.) I don’t understand why this isn’t the same thing. I really truly don’t. To me, showing children these images is even MORE horrific than putting stem cells to good use before society throws them in the garbage.

YOu’re argument won’t work here. Now if you used my self-defense with a gun argument (which you never answered by the way) you’d be more on track.

We’re going in circles here. Because no matter how much GOOD is done with these pictures, the ends doesn’t justify the means, imo.

Those words aren’t being used, but nothing is being done by the protesters to ensure this doesn’t happen. Further, It cannot be easily prevented as I have to drive by hospitals, Planned Parenthood and the like every day.

 

[bear06]

I have NO clue where I would find that info at…

Where would I find that that info?
Any ideas?

You might google on pro-life and your city or abortion and your city. This might bring them up.

 

[bear06]

And I’m sure that OUR Lady, knew that that fatima children could handle something like that…

Every child is different! Some children can handle something like that and for others it can upset them and tear them apart…

Are the people in HELL “cut-up”, “dead” and “bloody”…

With God, all things are possible. Protection for your children is one such thing. I’m pretty sure that a vision of Hell is far more traumatic than anything we’ll see here on earth.