Why do Catholic leave the Church?

[christofirst]

Thanks, I’ll check it out. Some time ago I bought him a book by Fr. Robert Spitzer, New Proofs for the Existence of God, but it did not move or persuade him.

 

[Pattylt]

, I suppose everyone who doubted for this reason would be Christian.

I understand your confusion as your sons story is in someways similar to mine and I’m sure my parents had the same confusion you do. I have no idea why I became a skeptic. I have no idea why the answers never satisfied me. I really tried to maintain my faith and just couldn’t. I often wonder if some people just got a larger skeptical gene from others! I wish I had an answer for you, I don’t. For some people it just doesn’t take. I’ve heard so many stories about how ones faith just didn’t make sense or they just plain didn’t believe it. It’s a point where they just realize that they no longer believe. The trigger can be anything from the problem of evil or suffering, the resurrection or just God in general and it’s rarely a desire to sin or a bad experience…though there are a few of those. Some go through a phase of being mad at God or feeling lied to but that usually passes, too. Mostly, they just don’t believe the religious story.

 

[Pattylt]

But here’s one common reason: seduced by the world.

Honestly, I think that isn’t true for most that leave. Some? Sure. I think it’s more about a disconnect between what the religion teaches the world is and what some see around them that doesn’t match. For some, like me, the supernatural just isn’t there. We can’t see it or feel it. We try to study it, rationalize it but at the end of the day, we just don’t believe it exists. It’s not the seduction of the physical world, it’s the reality of it and the unreal nature of the spiritual world.

I know for me, nothing in the real world seduced me. I wasn’t tempted by sin or rejecting my parents. I was still pretty innocent and not worldly at all yet I couldn’t believe there was a God out there somewhere. It wasn’t a pleasant experience either. At the time, I though I was the only person that existed that didn’t believe in God.

 

[PeterT]

Anesti33:

But here’s one common reason: seduced by the world.

Honestly, I think that isn’t true for most that leave. Some? Sure. I think it’s more about a disconnect between what the religion teaches the world is and what some see around them that doesn’t match. For some, like me, the supernatural just isn’t there. We can’t see it or feel it. We try to study it, rationalize it but at the end of the day, we just don’t believe it exists. It’s not the seduction of the physical world, it’s the reality of it and the unreal nature of the spiritual world.

I know for me, nothing in the real world seduced me. I wasn’t tempted by sin or rejecting my parents. I was still pretty innocent and not worldly at all yet I couldn’t believe there was a God out there somewhere. It wasn’t a pleasant experience either. At the time, I though I was the only person that existed that didn’t believe in God.

When you were growing up, did your classmates, friends and peer truly believed that God existed, or did they just went along (with their parents) to church because they had do but not because they truly believed?

Since the widespread introduction of television in the 1950s, the “seduction” of the world and its consumerism and material values starts at a very young age, the age when toddlers start to watch television on a regular basis. Nowadays, that seduction extends to all the worldly things (and worldly values) that they are exposed to not only on television but now via the internet too.

Before the advent of television, children were greatly sheltered about what they learned about the outside world. They basically only learned about the outside world based on what they were taught by their parents, their school teachers and at their churches (and other houses of worship).

 

[Pattylt]

When you were growing up, did your classmates, friends and peer truly believed that God existed, or did they just went along (with their parents) to church because they had do but not because they truly believed?

As far as I knew, they all believed. I went to public school but being Jewish, my time outside school was very sheltered. All my family are devout Orthodox Jews and everything from keeping kosher to attendance at synagogue was just normal life to me. That’s why I struggled for so long when I began losing faith. I loved my faith! I loved the idea of God. I loved being Jewish! I literally didn’t know anyone that didn’t believe in God. I didn’t even know there was a name for it.

I was born in 1952. My TV watching habits were somewhat limited as we mostly watched either the news or Ed Sullivan. I was allowed to watch Saturday morning cartoons. By my teens, I was always busy with synagogue events, Bar and Bat Mitzvots, Jewish dances and charity events. I wasn’t worldly in any way like some kids were. We discussed world events and some fashion trends but many weren’t allowed by our religion due to modesty requirements. That never bothered me either…I thought mini skirts looked stupid as did all my Jewish friends.

Today, I agree. The kids are exposed to much more than I ever was. They are much more sexually aware but I also think many youngs are also much more savvy and critical than I was. So, seduction of the world may be a factor for some but I also think it’s just something some people never fully buy into with their religion and I don’t know why. It just doesn’t take!

 

[VonDerTann]

Why do Catholics leave?

–Because of constant demands for money. Constant.

Want me to donate food for the poor? Gladly. But there are many times where the impression I get from the Church is,“I need money now, to enable me to ask for more money again in a few months.” Often the impression I get is that the church is less a tool of evangelization or salvation, so much as it is a little economic engine that exists so it can ask for more and perpetuate itself, to go on asking for more.

Since COVID hit, I have heard nothing from my parish except for one item, namely, a slick glossy cardstock mailer they sent me, asking for money.

Did the parish call me and inquire how I was fairing in the midst of a lockdown? Nope.

Did they offer to do a “drive in mass” to the parish? Nope.

Did they offer anything social, a drive in movie night? Nope.

But they did print a glossy mailer asking for money (at a time when no one has any).

So if I want to be solicited for money from folks who show that my money will be used for little positive (except to print and mail another cardstock mailer!), I’ll know where to look.

EDITING TO ADD: Don’t think some of us haven’t noticed that via the whole “patron”-thing, CAF would like our money too! So there it is.

 

[Anesti33]

I received a letter from my parish too. They were soliciting… prayer intentions. They have been praying for those intentions at each and every Mass since then.

 

[JanR]

I see no conflict between honest science and honest theology. Creation and evolution are easy to reconcile. I hope your son can find the answers he needs to return to the Church, and to Christ.

 

[VonDerTann]

Look, I don’t mean to be harsh. But let me share a true story that illustrates where I come from.

Some years ago I lived thru a very costly hurricane where a million folks lost power; many lost their homes. I only lost power for 9 nights (no damage to my house), but it was cold; gasoline couldn’t be had; things were hard.

My african american secretary was Baptist. Her church opened for “warming people up;” they made sandwiches and distributed them free to the community; they had power and told folks, “come in and charge your cel phone.”

My white suburban well-to-do parish offered…none of those. I saw the pastor after mass (they had power too) and I said, “Father, we’ve had no power or heat for a week.” His response was to say, “I’ll pray for you,” and walked away.

Now, like the good samaritan, how’d the Catholics do, compared to the Baptists?

 

[Anesti33]

My parish staff also telephoned each parishioner personally, asking if we were OK, if they could pray for us, and if there was anything we needed. I have felt very supported by my parish throughout this crisis, and I resent your attempts to impugn their efforts.

 

[VonDerTann]

You can resent what I wrote all you want - but sadly I saw my Catholic parish perform abysmally compared to a Baptist church with a LOT less resources. They’ve done no better now, with COVID.

Circle back - why do people leave? Because of things like I’ve described. It’s reality.

 

[JanR]

There are some parishes more supportive of disaster victims than others. Unfortunately, there isn’t a uniform response in these situations. Not all Catholic parishes would fail to provide tangible help. It’s too bad that one failed to do so.

The Baptists in that instant were being truly helpful and welcoming. I hope the pastor of that Catholic parish took notice and responded more meaningfully during future disasters.

Nobody is perfect, but that’s no excuse.

 

[VonDerTann]

Yeah, you’re correct.

Look, I will NEVER leave the church, for many reasons. We have the Eucharist and the sacraments - they don’t. But for every person who won’t leave there are many who will and who do.

BTW – same pastor then as now. I didn’t like him then and I still don’t.

EDITING TO ADD: I think Church heirarchy doesn’t help. Want to open a warming center? A parish probably needs to clear it with the bishop…who calls the lawyers and asks them to draft a release for users to sign. At the Baptist church, the pastor just does it. Could this be happening? I suspect, but don’t know for sure.

 

[yankeesouth]

dissatisfaction with Catholic teachings about abortion and homosexuality (56%),
and almost half (48%) cite dissatisfaction with church teachings about birth control,

Well they disagree with more than that because these are teachings of Jesus so they obviously don’t believe that Jesus and the Catholic Church are One and the Same. Or they do and somehow think they are fooling God when they say they dissent from ‘church’ teaching.

But these kind of polls shouldn’t be a surprise or make anyone despondent…Catholics have been walking away from Jesus from the beginning…

Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”

After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

Many miss this quote from Jesus…“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.” Take heed to those who don’t believe.

 

[Frankenfurter]

You also have to consider that we aren’t living in a vacuum.

It’s a pretty common phenomenon that when a society or culture is growing, they have to work hard and they realize they can’t do it alone, and that success is not guaranteed.
A lot of the values that religion teaches also contribute to secular success.

But at a certain level of prosperity and success, people take their riches for granted, and think they either “deserve” their comforts or did it all themselves.
This is around the time that atheism gains traction and the society goes into decline.

Well put.

Can we say that people drift away from God when they no longer believe they have a need for God?

It is interesting that we start with a relationship with God out of a need for what he can do for us. This is (according to St Bernard) the third step on the rung of the scaffold of love - what God can do for us.

The first step being, loving other for what they can do for us. The second being to love others for their own sake.

Like babies, we need God since we recognize that he can do something for us.

From the third rung we can move on to the forth - loving God for his own sake, then finally loving others for God’s sake.

The wealthy society you describes seems to not need each other even. We are self sufficient. So it seems we never get onto the ladder at all.

The reason St Benard called it a scaffold is because you can’t get to the higher levels without the lower ones.

So if we never need God, then we never progress on the ladder of love.

I suppose though that we must face our mortality. This is enough for me to recognize that I need God. So even in a wealthy culture, one is still mortal - still in need of God.

So perhaps part of the reasons some walk away from needing God is failure to confront their own mortality. Making of death a taboo subject.

 

[Shasta-Rose]

Western Civilization is simply in decline. I don’t think it’s coming back. And the decay will increase.
[/quote
It does seem that way. But I just can’t imagine what people want. What is better than Western Civilization, the way it used to be, with both religion and science?

And I can’t believe how fast this has happened. When I was a kid, everybody in the neighborhood got up on Sunday and went to church, whether Catholic or Protestant. You could hardly find any non-believers. And look at the change today—in the space of one lifetime. Incredible.

 

[VonDerTann]

It certainly doesn’t help that some states have functionally made church attendance impossible at this time - and states won’t like surrendering that power. What’s the best way to kill church attendance? Get people to think, “we can’t go for our own good!”

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are some parishes more supportive of disaster victims than others. Unfortunately, there isn’t a uniform response in these situations. Not all Catholic parishes would fail to provide tangible help. It’s too bad that one failed to do so.

This is true. I’m reminded of a particular Catholic parish where I’ve attended, that happens to be located in a business district that has had at least three devastating floods in the last couple decades. The church is one of the oldest buildings in the district and was built on the high ground. Every time it floods, the church has people running up the steps to get up to the church area on the high hill, and it opens its parish hall to people who need shelter and allows the emergency crews and the media to use its parking lot . Because this has happened so many times, the church has the drill pretty much down.

So if one Catholic church somehow “fails to help” in an emergency - which is sometimes debatable because the church may very well be helping in some way, but somebody for whatever reason didn’t get what they wanted, or didn’t get it right away, so they raise a fuss - don’t impart the failure to all parishes.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I know someone that just legit won’t tell me. She spits vitriol at the Church without actually telling me what she believes. It’s hard to defeat an opponent you don’t know.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’ve been tempted to leave the Church several times in the last few weeks. I’m not going anywhere, but the main reason I’m feeling this temptation is that I’m finding a lot of my fellow Catholics, especially online, to be just incredibly annoying, particularly in all the recent political discussions. It’s like John Lennon said, Jesus was all right but his disciples ruin it. I realize I have to fight this temptation when it arises and try harder to be more charitable and more understanding and more Christ-like. But I can definitely see why some people would just walk away.