Why do Christians reject the Talmud?

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PapyrusDouay said:
Most of those items you mention, Jesus made more strict
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Exactly my point! Jesus is nothing if not a person of radical love. The changes He proposed for Judaism are based on this kind of radicalism, the radicalism of non-violence and compassion. Judaism rejected this radicalism that became the cornerstone of Christian beliefs.
Code: 
"The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone."
(Matt 21: 42, Ps 118: 22)
 
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Sticking with your short question, I would avoid the Mishnah, first because its commenters were (2nd and 3rd cent. C.E.) giving a Jewish exegesis. By that time I had the Christian Greek scriptures to consider as inspired by ha-Shem himself, not men. You may know that we believe Christ when he prophesied the end of Jewish worship. Mt23:38
Yet this was not his prophecy alone, but God’s. Please read Jer 31:31 ff. Israel (God’s, not Netanyahu’s!) was in a very low spiritual condition, as you know. Consider the related scolding at Jer 4:4.

I don’t follow the Gemara because it’s even later and is a commentary on a commentary.

You may know that we consider ourselves “spiritual Israel”. That of course you aren’t required to believe, but can you see where we would get it from the Jeremiah citations? Moses the Lawgiver also said a greater prophet would be given by the Almighty, De 18:15-19.

For the record, I take the Shema as seriously as you do.
 
Rabbi David Steinberg once said, “Now, we read in the Old Testament … the more popular of the two …”
 
You need to understand the Jewish concept of oaths. Don’t know how this offended Jesus? An “eye for an eye” was always read as metaphorical. We will go in circles regarding G-d “ordering murder,” do you reject the book of Joshua? What about Sodom? Of course Rambam said G-d is outside nature and thus did not feel anger when He made the flood, it just happened because it did. G-d, says Rambam, doesn’t have emotions, He doesn’t “react” since He isn’t bound by space-time. This, however, isnt germane to our topic and I can make a new thread to go more in depth. Also, if the “Law” is so awful and made for “stubborn Jews,” explain to me Psalm 19:8-9, “The law of Adonai is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of HaShem is faithful, making the simple one wise. The orders of Adonai are upright, causing the heart to rejoice; the commandment of Adonai is clear, enlightening the eyes.”

Well? So much for the Law being a “yoke.” But perhaps it isn’t so much anymore when you realize that in Hebrew Torah means “instruction” and mitzvah “connection” more so then commandment. So think of keeping kosher and Shabbos as a way to “connect” with G-d. Um… not so bad after all.
 
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Again, don’t know why you think Judaism is a religion of violence and not love. You need to talk to the folks over at Chabad.
 
The modern state of Israel also has virtually no death penalty. The “you shall be stone to death” is very deep, too huge for this thread, but know that it was very hard to ever stone someone. First, you’d have to be warned you were making a sin and you’d have to admit you knew it (so it’d be more like a suicide mission), then the Sanhedrin would do everything in its power to prevent your stoning, coming up with all sorts of legal arguments. Rav Akiva says once a court put a man to death in 70 years and THAT was a wicked court. So stoning hardly ever happened if you trust what the Talmud tells you about history.
 
Your argument has so many problems, so many which I have to cover tomorrow when I have more time. First, what about Josephus’ account? Secondly, I will explain more about what Jeremiah was saying and why the Church (in my view) can’t possibly replace Israel, according to the Bible itself. But you will have to wait for all that tomorrow.

Thank you for taking the Shema seriously. The word there used is “echad,” which means one as “one” in English, meaning, one grape or one set of chairs, so one has to look at it with context there.
 
Here-I-am-Lord said:
Catholics oppose dead penalty even for murder
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Has that always been true? Or is this a recent change ( or development) in the teaching of the Catholic Church. I thought that in the past there was a time when the Church did not oppose the death penalty for heretics who refused to recant.
 
Happened to lot of Jews and Muslims and other Christians, that’s for sure. But the past is the past and ALL ancestors have made mistakes, even mine. I don’t blame anyone today. Some Jews still hate Germans, I point them to Elie Wiesel.
 
Rabbi said:
The modern state of Israel also has virtually no death penalty.
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I thought that in spite of many appeals for clemency, Adolf Eichmann was hanged at a prison in Ramia, Israel, in 1962. And in 2017 Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called for the death penalty to be imposed on the perpetrator of the 2017 Halamish stabbing attack. And is it not true that in January 2018, a bill was approved for military courts to impose the death penalty?
 
You are right on all those facts, that’s why I said “virtually.” As far as controversy goes, that wasn’t my point at all, I was referring to his forgiveness of later generations of Germans since they’ve personally done no wrong. They didn’t commit crimes against humanity, so why blame modern Germany?
 
curious_cath said:
Yigal Amir’
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What does he have to do with anything? Why are you bringing up random people who have committed atrocities to our people? What are you trying to distinguish? Between Torah and Mishnah? The two, in my view, are inseparable.
 
Ok, now I have time to tackle this. Why do you avoid the Mishnah? It is older then you think. We have it on record that it spans far before first Temple times, whereas the Gospels were all written, let’s say, a hundred years after Jesus’ death.

I’ve talked about the Greek Septuagint not being of Jewish hands before (except the Torah), scroll up for an in depth answer regarding that. By review, note that the Talmud (Megillah, 9a-9b), Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews, XII, ii, 1-4), the Letter of Aristeas, and Jerome… all agree that the Septuagint of the rabbis was only the five books of Moses. Jerome even said in his preface to the Book of Hebrew Questions: "Add to this that Josephus, who gives the story of the seventy translators, reports them as translating only the Five Books of Moses; and we also acknowledge that these are more in harmony with the Hebrew than the rest.”

Note the words of Dr. F.F. Bruce, a famed biblical scholar:

“The Jews might have gone on at a later time to authorize a standard text of the rest of the Septuagint, but . . . lost interest in the Septuagint altogether. With but few exceptions, every manuscript of the Septuagint which has come down to our day was copied and preserved in Christian, not Jewish, circles.” (see F.F. Bruce, The Books and the Parchments, p.150).

Note how he used the word “might,” as if speculating. The rabbis “might” have just had easily not translated the whole Bible in Greek either, and we have primary sources to back that version up.

You quote Jesus from Deuteronomy 18, where he says: “had you believed Moses, ye would have believed me.” I ask Jesus: "On what basis?"Understand that those who applied Devarim 18 and found consistency with Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, also applied it to Jesus and did not. You cannot accept one view without the other. So I ask you: how do you think we, the Jewish people, decided on who was a prophet and who was not? Have you even given this much serious thought? Perhaps you’d find Jesus lacking the credentials?
 
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According to Isaiah 43:10, 12; and 44:8. G-d appointed a witnessed nation, and there is no nation which had the experience we had, witnesses by millions of people (Deuteronomy 4:32-35). As far as we know, we’re confident that G-d would not let us falter.

So according to Scripture, He is the only G-d (Deuteronomy 4:15, 35), and we’re tasked with taking any new claim, any new revelation, and to stack it up with what we were commanded in the Torah, to see if it is in harmony or not. The Jewish people have always asked themselves, “Does this teaching affirm Scripture (Deuteronomy 18:20)? Or does it deny our G-d (Deuteronomy 13:3)?”

Deuteronomy 18:22 is another test to see if a prophet is indeed legit. And as far as we’re concerned, Jesus did not meet the criteria of being the Messiah. We cannot accept the excuse of a second coming when it appears nowhere in Scripture. Based on these tests, let us turn to the Judges to demand a verdict (Deuteronomy 17:8, 9 – 2 Chronicles 19:11). We know what it is. One has to be consistent, if one is to reject their verdict, then also reject our Torah.

Regarding Jeremiah 31:31-33,

“Behold, days are coming, says Adonai, and I will form a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant. Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says Adonai. For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after those days, says Adonai: I will place My law in their midst and I will inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their G-d and they shall be My people, and no longer shall one teach his neighbor or one teach his brother, saying, ‘Know Adonai,’ for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says Adonai, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.”

Since Jesus walked the earth 2,000 years ago, has any of this happened? Has all the world, Jew and Gentile alike, recognize the one G-d of Israel? If so, why are Christian Missionaries still spending billions of dollars a year on endless conversions throughout the world? Why doesn’t everyone already know G-d? Furthermore, where are the ten lost tribes as verse 33 clearly states will be unified again?
 
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