Why Do Non-Catholics Do Such A Better Job with Worship?

[po18guy]

My question asks why they often do such a batter job at everything that humans DO control (verses gifted from God.) The Mass in no way mandates poor music, poor singing, late arrivals, early exists, lax preaching and a zillion other things including those I mentioned in my original post.

As I see it, the fact remains that mass and Sunday services are not, in a strict sense, comparable. They set out to accomplish two entirely different things, using completely different methods. Non-Catholic/Orthodox have the freedom to use whatever works to pack 'em in. They have to, because of competition from other denominations.

 

[PA650]

As I see it, the fact remains that mass and Sunday services are not, in a strict sense, comparable. They set out to accomplish two entirely different things, using completely different methods. Non-Catholic/Orthodox have the freedom to use whatever works to pack 'em in. They have to, because of competition from other denominations.

I hope we are not comparing the Divine Liturgies of Eastern Orthodoxy with modern ‘worship services’ of the various Protestant denominations that exist today. In addition, Eastern Orthodoxy entails apostolic churches that someday may be reunited with the Catholic Church while Protestant denominations do not hold such a position. For example,
youtube.com/watch?v=OL5G2lYrTvI&feature=relmfu

 

[po18guy]

I hope we are not comparing the Divine Liturgies of Eastern Orthodoxy with modern ‘worship services’ of the various Protestant denominations that exist today. In addition, Eastern Orthodoxy entails apostolic churches that someday may be reunited with the Catholic Church while Protestant denominations do not hold such a position. For example,
youtube.com/watch?v=OL5G2lYrTvI&feature=relmfu

My distinction was between the Catholic plus the Orthodox, and all of the others. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We Catholics enjoy and benefit from far more of God’s gifts than non-Catholic/Orthodox Christians. I am not questioning that in the least and I hope no one will suggest I am.

What I am wondering about is why do so many non-Catholic Christians groups do such a superior job to Catholic parishes when it comes to the things we humans control and bring to worship? (Yes, the sacrificial Catholic liturgies are infinitely superior to any man-made worship service but that is due to God, not humans.)

After attending Mass early on Sunday morning and the Divine Liturgy during mid-morning I went to a large, local Protestant church Sunday night. All the things that we humans bring to the worship (and not what God gifts to us as Catholics) were executed in a manner that was superior to anything I have ever experienced at a Catholic Mass.

We were nicely greeted as we entered the church. The church was silent inside with people in prayer before the service. People were dressed much nicer then I have seen at Catholic parishes. I noticed some older folks were wearing portable radios with headsets. They weren’t listening to music. They were getting ready to listen to the service over their radios which are broadcast in real time inside the church. I saw a half dozen vans bringing those that didn’t have another ride to the service. The entire congregation sounded like a choir. They used a piano and a harp to accompany. Simply gorgeous.

The preaching was awesome. The message was not different then what I have heard at my parish but it was delivered in a way that really made me sit up and notice. I had to use the restroom during, and walking through the lobby I could see parents with noisy kids and just passer-byers watching the service on big screens in the lobby. Afterward the church had a nice little fellowship gathering with watch seemed like the entire parish in attendance. The pastor and associate pastor made their rounds and they spoke to my friend and I. They were delighted to hear we were visiting and they mentioned my pastor as being a personal acquittance.

If a Catholic parish could do things as well as this parish I think people WOULD return. All too often it seems we take God’s great gifts (the sacraments, etc.) and present them to the faithful in such a deficient manner. I really wonder why this church does such a better job at the man-given (as opposed to the God-given) externals?

People might say that the Mass is enough. That all the other stuff doesn’t matter. I submit that people often leave the Catholic Church because they see God’s gifts being presented in such lacking ways. Why do non-Catholics do such a superior job in the things we humans can control?

It seems to me that you are focused on the exterior. Greeters, musical instruments, I don’t even know how that can compare to a true Liturgy. Perhaps you need to learn more about the Liturgy to fully understand and appreciate whats going on. How people dress and how good the musicians are can’t even compare to what happens in a true Liturgy.

People leave perhaps because they fail to understand what is happening. We don’t need to turn the Liturgy into a show so people would stay. It was never meant to be something that people feel good about, but always a worship and extension of Christ’s Sacrifice and joining in the Divine Meal. Just because someone comments that the Mass is bland doesn’t mean we should cater to that person’s needs. That person needs to understand what the Mass is and what it is about.

 

[Blacksword]

I will say this as a converting christian in the northwestern suburbs of Detroit, I love mass at my parish, I love the church leaders there I’ve met, but the music is sad. Now, the norm for the protestant non-denominational mega churches is awful as well when comes to music, loud rock bands and so forth, and I hate that with a passion.

I can read music, I love traditional four part harmony and hymns, at least there are hymns in the choir mass at my parish. I first started going there and did notice most people don’t sing at all, and that the hymnals have only melody line, no other parts. So I ask the music director after a service if I can buy the choir version to sing harmony in the service. Nope, he says, there isn’t one! Luckily, I found a choir version of the praise song hymnal which has a lot of the same hymns in it as the gather hymnal, so I bring that every week, sing the tenor line, with strength and volume even if no one around me sings, and worship fully as possible while hoping my singing might encourage others to do so as well. After all, when you sing, you pray twice!

 

[Heffner]

Sir…either you did not compose your question to correspond with your thoughts or you need to brush up on critical thinking. Secondly…you could not possibly…not even close… have any idea about how “most Catholic parishes” execute the mass.
Third…the Catholic mass is a worship service and some of us think it is far superior to what many consider to be nothing more than a meeting of non Catholic believers,some of whom have excellent vocal skills…but do a better job with worship?..absolutely no way!
I am still scratching my head over your response…sheesh

Your earlier response had absolutely nothing to do with my original posting. I’m not trying to be difficult but I don’t want to bury the real causes (whatever they might be) under material that does not pertain to my original question.

 

[Blacksword]

It seems to me that you are focused on the exterior. Greeters, musical instruments, I don’t even know how that can compare to a true Liturgy. Perhaps you need to learn more about the Liturgy to fully understand and appreciate whats going on. How people dress and how good the musicians are can’t even compare to what happens in a true Liturgy.

People leave perhaps because they fail to understand what is happening. We don’t need to turn the Liturgy into a show so people would stay. It was never meant to be something that people feel good about, but always a worship and extension of Christ’s Sacrifice and joining in the Divine Meal. Just because someone comments that the Mass is bland doesn’t mean we should cater to that person’s needs. That person needs to understand what the Mass is and what it is about.

I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think the poster wants a show and I know I don’t. I just feel that the music should be…meaningful. The effort the congregation puts into their music worship says much about their heart for worship…we should at least strive for beautiful, heartfelt music, shouldn’t we? The scripture says make a joyful noise unto the Lord! Now I understand that some people singing won’t be a beautiful noise, but standing in silence seems not very honoring either. I will not judge what is in another’s heart during mass, but I have a hard time believing that all the people not singing at all are silent because they are just too swept up in prayer and worship to sing.

 

[Heffner]

I will say this as a converting christian in the northwestern suburbs of Detroit, I love mass at my parish, I love the church leaders there I’ve met, but the music is sad. Now, the norm for the protestant non-denominational mega churches is awful as well when comes to music, loud rock bands and so forth, and I hate that with a passion.

You make a very valid point. Not all Masses exhibit the bad attributes I and others have mentioned, nor do all non-Catholic religious services include all the good things I experienced. That is a very important point indeed.

What I will say is that I have never experienced the Mass is that “well run” of a setting. Not ever.

I can read music, I love traditional four part harmony and hymns, at least there are hymns in the choir mass at my parish. I first started going there and did notice most people don’t sing at all, and that the hymnals have only melody line, no other parts. So I ask the music director after a service if I can buy the choir version to sing harmony in the service. Nope, he says, there isn’t one! Luckily, I found a choir version of the praise song hymnal which has a lot of the same hymns in it as the gather hymnal, so I bring that every week, sing the tenor line, with strength and volume even if no one around me sings, and worship fully as possible while hoping my singing might encourage others to do so as well. After all, when you sing, you pray twice!

GOOD for you! Grassroots effort!

 

[Heffner]

It seems to me that you are focused on the exterior. Greeters, musical instruments, I don’t even know how that can compare to a true Liturgy. Perhaps you need to learn more about the Liturgy to fully understand and appreciate whats going on. How people dress and how good the musicians are can’t even compare to what happens in a true Liturgy.

People leave perhaps because they fail to understand what is happening. We don’t need to turn the Liturgy into a show so people would stay. It was never meant to be something that people feel good about, but always a worship and extension of Christ’s Sacrifice and joining in the Divine Meal. Just because someone comments that the Mass is bland doesn’t mean we should cater to that person’s needs. That person needs to understand what the Mass is and what it is about.

No.

Pretty much everything man-made was executed better than anything I have ever experienced in a Catholic parish. As I pointed out in detail in my OP they do not the huge God-given gifts that we Catholics are privileged to have. But that which they do have, we also also have and theirs was superior to anything I have ever experienced in a Catholic parish.

 

[moxie7]

Walk into most Catholic parishes just before Mass and there is a great deal of talking and back-slapping going on. That’s hardly low key or spiritual. The silence I felt in that other church was, however.

not by experience- but the sacrificing of chickens in a church in Guatemala was pretty interesting- I think i have been in churches in more than 20 countries by now- all different-

 

[RobbyS]

I see and understand much of your angst regarding Catholic worship but I disagree with your choice of words in your post title. I don’t know what type of non-catholic service you attended but is this the norm for non-catholics to be quiet and well dressed in church?

Protestamts do dress better. In fact Catholics used to dress better. Informality came in as the formality of the Latin mass went out. But of course, in general people today dress much more informally than forty years ago.

 

[Heffner]

I hope we are not comparing the Divine Liturgies of Eastern Orthodoxy with modern ‘worship services’ of the various Protestant denominations that exist today. In addition, Eastern Orthodoxy entails apostolic churches that someday may be reunited with the Catholic Church while Protestant denominations do not hold such a position. For example,
youtube.com/watch?v=OL5G2lYrTvI&feature=relmfu

Nope. I attend the Divine Liturgies of Byzantine Catholicism.

Your reunification comments are misplaces on this thread.

 

[Heffner]

Perfect communion with the Vicar of Christ on Earth.

 

[Heffner]

As I see it, the fact remains that mass and Sunday services are not, in a strict sense, comparable. They set out to accomplish two entirely different things, using completely different methods. Non-Catholic/Orthodox have the freedom to use whatever works to pack 'em in. They have to, because of competition from other denominations.

No.

All the things in my OP are part of the Mass or at least part of going to worship God. From being on time and greeted at the door to not leaving prematurely and everything in between is very important.

 

[KevinAK]

I was a member of a Protestant sect until the Holy Spirirt opened my eyes. They do not do a better job @ anything.

 

[Heffner]

I was a member of a Protestant sect until the Holy Spirirt opened my eyes. They do not do a better job @ anything.

Many groups do. Evangelization also comes to mind.

 

[Heffner]

As I see it, the fact remains that mass and Sunday services are not, in a strict sense, comparable. They set out to accomplish two entirely different things, using completely different methods. Non-Catholic/Orthodox have the freedom to use whatever works to pack 'em in. They have to, because of competition from other denominations.

The are most certainly comparable when it comes to things like manners and how we comport ourselves during worship. The huge number of things that have been listed, from getting to Mass on time to not leaving prematurely and everything in between applies both to Catholic sacrificial liturgies and non-Catholic worship services.

You bring up a very provocative point. You suggest that “…because of competition from other denominations.” Anyone who doesn’t think the Catholic Church isn’t in competition for souls is someone without a realistic view of things.

As things become ever less sacred and every more ordinary (no matter how valid the liturgy might be) we lose people. Some become C&E Catholics. Others leave the faith altogether.

 

[pismopal]

Your earlier response had absolutely nothing to do with my original posting. I’m not trying to be difficult but I don’t want to bury the real causes (whatever they might be) under material that does not pertain to my original question.

If anyone is reading this drivel it will be for them to decide

 

[pismopal]

not by experience- but the sacrificing of chickens in a church in Guatemala was pretty interesting- I think i have been in churches in more than 20 countries by now- all different-

and…what was for supper?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think you are generalizing about your church and what it does and doesn’t look like. There are many very wealthy and up to date Catholic churches, I’m sure.

My main church is very casual about dress. Our Pastor is Cuban by heritage and so he is relaxed and has a different way of running his parish. He’s the one who preaches a 30-45 minute homily, most of the time, making the Mass about 90 minutes. This church is more international, very widely diverse economically, and I love watching all the ethnicities of people returning from Eucharist. It really satisfies the Catholic aspect of the Church - one for all. We do have 2 large video screens, though, and the capability to show the priest as he is celebrating the Mass. Our music talent is just OK, not great, especially for the Vigil Mass. There are no traditional elements in this church.

The other church is much more traditional, more formal, and almost no one shows up in jeans, even for the Vigil Mass. A more wealthy parish, there are plenty of greeters, ushers, and a very professional choir. There are 2 priests at every Mass and the church is so large that on Sunday it takes a crowd of Eucharistic ministers to serve everyone. But it runs like clockwork. Lots of different ministries, groups, activities, etc. However, for me, there is something too slick about it. Maybe it’s the fact that most people are Anglo? It’s like an all-white parish. When I look around, I see mostly people with the same skin color as me, and that bothers me. But I like the confession times, and going to weekday Mass, and some of the more traditional elements.

I would say that in general Baptists and Protestants are most conscious of dress. Lutherans and Methodists are not as showy, more down to earth. But much of this depends upon the area - is it a city or more rural? Is it a wealthy area within the city?

I can tell you that the large church that includes more wealthy people with fabulous clothing does not feel as welcoming to me. I went in nice jeans once and got a look up and down from the person to my left, it was obvious what she was saying without speaking a word. I felt that people who show up in rags (so to speak) would be looked down upon. There’s a lot of wealth there but I’m not sure what they do to draw in the poor.

Catholics are not as concerned about all those details. You either want the truth or you want a service that tickles your ears and your stomach, I think.